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  #21  
Old April 25th 07, 09:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Paul O
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Posts: 274
Default Goodbye

snip

But it struck me as I was enduring the pain of that
massage that participation in the newsgroups gets more painful by the
year, but no longer holds any particular benefit for me. Technical
discussions break down into pointless bluster as often as not (ala
"jim beam") and discussions about social issues have long since ceased
to hold any promise of civil discourse.

And it only gets more and more shrill as time goes by.

snip

As a long time reader (and a very infrequent contributor) I'm also
finding that participating in this newsgroup is becoming less and less
enjoyable. I don't mind an occasional, spirited political or technical
discussion. But the venom that some people pour into their posts is
totally uncalled for.

What is sad is that the wit and humor has slowly drained out of this
news group as the temperature of the political debate has risen. I used
to count on rec.bicycles.misc to provide me with a few good chuckles
every day. Now those funny posts are few and far between.

I know that we live in a f---ed up world and it is hard to shut the
problems of the world out. And I certainly don't advocate that anyone
ignore the problems our world is facing. But, come on people; RBM is a
bicycle discussion group. Bicycling is supposed to be fun! RBM is
supposed to be centered around the joy and fun of riding bicycles.

Mark, all the best to you. We are going to miss you here. Hopefully you
and I can get together sometime and go for a bike ride. A bet it would
be fun.

--

Paul D Oosterhout
I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC)
Ads
  #22  
Old April 25th 07, 11:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
David L. Johnson
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Posts: 1,048
Default Goodbye

Mark Hickey wrote:

So, it's with absolute joy and anticipation that I bid you all a fond
farewell.


Take care, Mark.

Hell, we all know that usenet is dead anyway, and we are just sifting
through the ashes. Between the "forums" diverting a lot of more
specialized discussions and energy, and "angry young men" determined to
turn any topic into their particular soapbox, the signal/noise level is
not looking good.

Hey, at least that's one less conservative..... No, I didn't mean that.
Some of my best friends are conservatives. Not many, but some.

--

David L. Johnson

Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig...
You soon find out the pig likes it!
  #23  
Old April 25th 07, 11:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
David L. Johnson
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Posts: 1,048
Default Goodbye

Bill Sornson wrote:

I hope you'll reconsider at some point. I don't agree with your
politics, but I think you've been a voice of reason on matters of
bicycle technology, which this list is purportedly about. The reign
of the yippy dogs seems once step closer with your departure.


I second that.

I hope Mark will reconsider because SHUTTING OUT OPPOSING VOICES is an
obvious tactic of a certain political movement nowadays, and by his bowing
out it's playing right into their pocket-picking hands.


I would suggest that it is a tactic of _many_ political movements
nowadays, but I don't want this, too, to become a political rant.

There comes a time, though, when there is no point in trying to remain
involved. Many newsgroups have long since died completely because of
this. I used to find significant religious discussions on my particular
religious-stripe group (soc.religion.quaker), I used to find significant
advise and problems on sci.math.symbolic, and helpful advice on the
comp.os.linux groups. Now, none of these are worth the trouble, even
with bozofilters. Others are just dead. Hell, these rec.bicycles.*
groups are probably the best left aside from moderated groups, and even
those are losing ground quickly.

--

David L. Johnson

Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig...
You soon find out the pig likes it!
  #24  
Old April 25th 07, 11:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
David L. Johnson
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Posts: 1,048
Default Goodbye

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:33:12 -0700, Mark Hickey
wrote:

JT's pernicious accusations are just the latest in a long series, but
they're the ones that opened my eyes to the reality that this is no
longer any fun, and there are many better ways I can spend my time. I
have a very full life, a wonderful family (including four new
granddaughters). I can ride my bike more.


You're a coward. All you have to do is not talk about politics and I
wont bring up your more disgusting political views. Or even killfile
me.

Actually you've been a coward and a bully (threatening to sue me for
libel!).


Well, you just made Mark's point.

--

David L. Johnson

Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig...
You soon find out the pig likes it!
  #25  
Old April 25th 07, 11:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
catzz66
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Posts: 322
Default Goodbye

David L. Johnson wrote:


I would suggest that it is a tactic of _many_ political movements
nowadays, but I don't want this, too, to become a political rant.



I don't care to read anybody else's political views here, even if I
agree with them. It is not easy, but I filter all those topics (and
people who can't help replying) so that the post is deleted and I never
see it again.

These are bike newsgroups, not political pages. If it gets to where
there are not many posts on topic, there are plenty of other good things
to do with my time. I would not beg anyone to stay if they can't keep
from getting into it with other posters. Delete the newgroups for a
while. If you don't miss them, you made a wise choice.
  #26  
Old April 25th 07, 11:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Antti Salonen
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Posts: 60
Default Goodbye

In rec.bicycles.misc David L. Johnson wrote:

Hell, we all know that usenet is dead anyway, and we are just sifting
through the ashes. Between the "forums" diverting a lot of more
specialized discussions and energy, and "angry young men" determined to
turn any topic into their particular soapbox, the signal/noise level is
not looking good.


Indeed. The Usenet is dying simply because it isn't moderated. I guess
it worked better 10 to 15 years ago when the standard of Internet users
was higher, but now most newsgroups are playgrounds of small number of
anti-social idiots who successfully drive everybody else to moderated
web forums and mailing lists.

Antti
  #27  
Old April 26th 07, 12:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Phil Holman
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Posts: 478
Default Goodbye

Good bye Mark. Thanks for the many insightful postings over the years.

Phil H


"Mark Hickey" wrote in message
...
I had an epiphany. Last night, I was getting a painful deep massage
to help with the effects of my bike accident in 2003. The nice young
woman was leaning heavily toward me to better drive the point of her
elbow into the very sore muscles of my neck. I thought "I'm paying
her to hurt me this much - I don't really have to put up with the
pain". Of course, I didn't stop her because I benefit from the
process, however painful.

Which brings me to the current state of the rec.bicycles newsgroups.
I've been frequenting them for over 15 years, and (particularly in the
early years) have learned much, and tried to share what I know through
those years. But it struck me as I was enduring the pain of that
massage that participation in the newsgroups gets more painful by the
year, but no longer holds any particular benefit for me. Technical
discussions break down into pointless bluster as often as not (ala
"jim beam") and discussions about social issues have long since ceased
to hold any promise of civil discourse.

And it only gets more and more shrill as time goes by.

Character assassination has become the chief tool for those who prefer
to avoid facts that run contrary to their world view, and I've
increasingly been the target of these attacks.

It strikes me that most of the "high-content contributors" have also
left these newsgroups over the years, and it's easy to see why. I
suspect that the content to noise ratio is only going to get worse as
time goes by.

JT's pernicious accusations are just the latest in a long series, but
they're the ones that opened my eyes to the reality that this is no
longer any fun, and there are many better ways I can spend my time. I
have a very full life, a wonderful family (including four new
granddaughters). I can ride my bike more.

So, it's with absolute joy and anticipation that I bid you all a fond
farewell. I've got the same kind of feeling that you get when you're
finishing up a tedious task before walking out the door on a long
vacation. I'm psyched. For this, I can only thank JT for doing his
part to bring this long, glorious waste of time to an end.

Happy trails,

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame



  #28  
Old April 26th 07, 12:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 - Hayfever Edition
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Posts: 3
Default Goodbye


"Antti Salonen" wrote in message
...
In rec.bicycles.misc David L. Johnson wrote:

Hell, we all know that usenet is dead anyway, and we are just sifting
through the ashes. Between the "forums" diverting a lot of more
specialized discussions and energy, and "angry young men" determined to
turn any topic into their particular soapbox, the signal/noise level is
not looking good.


Indeed. The Usenet is dying simply because it isn't moderated. I guess
it worked better 10 to 15 years ago when the standard of Internet users
was higher, but now most newsgroups are playgrounds of small number of
anti-social idiots who successfully drive everybody else to moderated
web forums and mailing lists.

Antti


Yep. From trolls to rampant spam, it's becoming the wasteland. Having said
that, RBT is still better than most. Have you been to alt.mountain-bike?
Talk about a soapbox for cooler-than-thou sophomorism.


  #29  
Old April 26th 07, 12:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Bill Sornson
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Posts: 4,098
Default Goodbye

David L. Johnson wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:

I hope you'll reconsider at some point. I don't agree with your
politics, but I think you've been a voice of reason on matters of
bicycle technology, which this list is purportedly about. The reign
of the yippy dogs seems once step closer with your departure.


Please watch your attributions; I did not write the above.


  #30  
Old April 26th 07, 12:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Posts: 6,564
Default Goodbye

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:40:28 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:33:12 -0700, Mark Hickey
wrote:

JT's pernicious accusations are just the latest in a long series, but
they're the ones that opened my eyes to the reality that this is no
longer any fun, and there are many better ways I can spend my time. I
have a very full life, a wonderful family (including four new
granddaughters). I can ride my bike more.


You're a coward. All you have to do is not talk about politics and I
wont bring up your more disgusting political views. Or even killfile
me.

Actually you've been a coward and a bully (threatening to sue me for
libel!).


Well, you just made Mark's point.


It's not just Mark's point -- it's mine as well. I'm harsh.That pales
in significance to promoting torture and supporting the current
attacks on the rule of the law in the US.

I can't have a "civil"discussion about these things. So if Mark can't
deal, he shouldn't start. He shouldn't have started with me.

--
JT
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