Interesting Article On How Cars Took Over the Road

On 10/09/18 09:56, wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 19:44:07 +0100
TMS320 wrote:
On 31/08/18 15:26, wrote:
Which IMO is a good thing. Not all drivers stop for people on
crossings so you can guarantee they wouldn't stop if they had a green
light.

You might want to rephrase it that there is no guarantee they will stop
if they have a green light.

But I disagree. Without a separate pedestrian phase, everything moves
more quickly; less frustration amongst drivers, less incentive for
pedestrians to get bored and cross on red. And as I said, I think a
separate pedestrian phase suppresses a culture of giving way.

Having been in france only last week where they also have this system I can
safely say I rarely felt safe crossing the road at these crossings when a
significant percentage of drivers only spot you at the last second and have
to slam on the brakes.

So you blindly stepped out hoping for the best? Perhaps you weren't
there long enough to get used to it. Anyway, you're still around to post
about it so it obviously didn't go wrong.

On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 08:23:49 +0100
TMS320 wrote:
On 10/09/18 09:56, wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 19:44:07 +0100
TMS320 wrote:
On 31/08/18 15:26, wrote:
Which IMO is a good thing. Not all drivers stop for people on
crossings so you can guarantee they wouldn't stop if they had a green
light.

You might want to rephrase it that there is no guarantee they will stop
if they have a green light.

But I disagree. Without a separate pedestrian phase, everything moves
more quickly; less frustration amongst drivers, less incentive for
pedestrians to get bored and cross on red. And as I said, I think a
separate pedestrian phase suppresses a culture of giving way.

Having been in france only last week where they also have this system I can
safely say I rarely felt safe crossing the road at these crossings when a
significant percentage of drivers only spot you at the last second and have
to slam on the brakes.

So you blindly stepped out hoping for the best? Perhaps you weren't
there long enough to get used to it. Anyway, you're still around to post
about it so it obviously didn't go wrong.

There is another rule in france - unlike in the UK they're not oblidged to
stop until the pedestrian is *ON* the crossing. If you just stand at the side
like a lemon you'll just have a stream of traffic going past you. All in all it
makes crossing the road in a busy french city a rather unpleasent experience.

wrote in message news
There is another rule in france - unlike in the UK they're not oblidged to
stop until the pedestrian is *ON* the crossing. If you just stand at the
side
like a lemon you'll just have a stream of traffic going past you. All in
all it
makes crossing the road in a busy french city a rather unpleasent
experience.

It's the same in the UK:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-high...trians-1-to-35
"Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto
the crossing." and (from the driver's point of view) rule 195 "You MUST give
way to a pedestrian who has moved onto the crossing" - nothing about having
to stop for a pedestrian who is not yet on the crossing. I usually do stop
if I see a pedestrian who is clearly stopped at a crossing, or if I see one
walking towards a crossing and I judge that they will have got to it before
I will.

Some countries regard crossing the road at anything other than a designated
crossing, or crossing at a red pedestrian light, as jaywalking - an
offence - even when it is clearly safe to cross. At least we haven't gone
that far.

If I want to cross a road and there's no crossing, I don't stand still at
the side of the road. I carry on walking in the direction I want to go, and
cross whenever I happen to see that both directions are clear. The problem
with pedestrian lights is that you can't do that: you need to wait, without
making progress in the direction you want, until the lights turn in your
favour. I think that's why a lot of people don't use lights even when they
are provided.

On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 11:04:56 +0100
"NY" wrote:
wrote in message news
There is another rule in france - unlike in the UK they're not oblidged to
stop until the pedestrian is *ON* the crossing. If you just stand at the
side
like a lemon you'll just have a stream of traffic going past you. All in
all it
makes crossing the road in a busy french city a rather unpleasent
experience.

It's the same in the UK:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-high...trians-1-to-35
"Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto
the crossing." and (from the driver's point of view) rule 195 "You MUST give
way to a pedestrian who has moved onto the crossing" - nothing about having

DIdn't know that, I thought you were obliged to stop if someone was obviously
waiting to cross. I guess drivers here are just nicer

Some countries regard crossing the road at anything other than a designated
crossing, or crossing at a red pedestrian light, as jaywalking - an

No surprise that the anally retentive germans are in that list. Here in London
its obvious who are the tourists or recent immigrants at the crossings as they
just stand there like pillocks waiting for the green man even if the road is
clear for hundreds of metres in either direction.

On 11/09/18 09:56, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 08:23:49 +0100
TMS320 wrote:
On 10/09/18 09:56, wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 19:44:07 +0100
TMS320 wrote:
On 31/08/18 15:26, wrote:
Which IMO is a good thing. Not all drivers stop for people on
crossings so you can guarantee they wouldn't stop if they had a green
light.

You might want to rephrase it that there is no guarantee they will stop
if they have a green light.

But I disagree. Without a separate pedestrian phase, everything moves
more quickly; less frustration amongst drivers, less incentive for
pedestrians to get bored and cross on red. And as I said, I think a
separate pedestrian phase suppresses a culture of giving way.

Having been in france only last week where they also have this system I can
safely say I rarely felt safe crossing the road at these crossings when a
significant percentage of drivers only spot you at the last second and have
to slam on the brakes.

So you blindly stepped out hoping for the best? Perhaps you weren't
there long enough to get used to it. Anyway, you're still around to post
about it so it obviously didn't go wrong.

There is another rule in france - unlike in the UK they're not oblidged to
stop until the pedestrian is *ON* the crossing. If you just stand at the side
like a lemon you'll just have a stream of traffic going past you. All in all it
makes crossing the road in a busy french city a rather unpleasent experience.

I find it easy to switch driving or cycling between left and right but
always find it difficult to remember which way to look first when
walking. If you add that to a culture difference, you might need more
time to acclimatise.

At UK lights, I object to standing at the side like a lemon when there
is no obvious reason for a red light. I avoid request lights whenever
possible.

On 11/09/18 11:04, NY wrote:
wrote in message news
There is another rule in france - unlike in the UK they're not
oblidged to
stop until the pedestrian is *ON* the crossing. If you just stand at
the side
like a lemon you'll just have a stream of traffic going past you. All
in all it
makes crossing the road in a busy french city a rather unpleasent
experience.

It's the same in the UK:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-high...trians-1-to-35
"Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved
onto the crossing." and (from the driver's point of view) rule 195 "You
MUST give way to a pedestrian who has moved onto the crossing" - nothing
about having to stop for a pedestrian who is not yet on the crossing. I
usually do stop if I see a pedestrian who is clearly stopped at a
crossing, or if I see one walking towards a crossing and I judge that
they will have got to it before I will.

Some countries regard crossing the road at anything other than a
designated crossing, or crossing at a red pedestrian light, as
jaywalking - an offence - even when it is clearly safe to cross. At
least we haven't gone that far.

Perhaps the tide is starting to turn, even in the US?
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797

If I want to cross a road and there's no crossing, I don't stand still
at the side of the road. I carry on walking in the direction I want to
go, and cross whenever I happen to see that both directions are clear.
The problem with pedestrian lights is that you can't do that: you need
to wait, without making progress in the direction you want, until the
lights turn in your favour. I think that's why a lot of people don't use
lights even when they are provided.

There is one near me where I will go 50-100 yards along the road, cross
and return down the other side to avoid the pedestrian lights. It is
invariably quicker. And I cross under my control.

On 11/09/18 12:24, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 11:04:56 +0100
"NY" wrote:

Some countries regard crossing the road at anything other than a designated
crossing, or crossing at a red pedestrian light, as jaywalking - an

No surprise that the anally retentive germans are in that list.

Perhaps they don't die from old age waiting for the lights to change...

Here in London
its obvious who are the tourists or recent immigrants at the crossings as they
just stand there like pillocks waiting for the green man even if the road is
clear for hundreds of metres in either direction.

Like you in France?

On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:30:44 +0100
TMS320 wrote:
On 11/09/18 12:24, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 11:04:56 +0100
"NY" wrote:

Some countries regard crossing the road at anything other than a designated
crossing, or crossing at a red pedestrian light, as jaywalking - an

No surprise that the anally retentive germans are in that list.

Perhaps they don't die from old age waiting for the lights to change...

Here in London
its obvious who are the tourists or recent immigrants at the crossings as
they
just stand there like pillocks waiting for the green man even if the road is
clear for hundreds of metres in either direction.

Like you in France?

I was talking about crossing busy roads in france, not empty ones.

On 11/09/18 14:51, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:30:44 +0100 TMS320 wrote:
On 11/09/18 12:24, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 11:04:56 +0100 "NY" wrote:

Some countries regard crossing the road at anything other than
a designated crossing, or crossing at a red pedestrian light,
as jaywalking - an

No surprise that the anally retentive germans are in that list.

Perhaps they don't die from old age waiting for the lights to
change...

Here in London its obvious who are the tourists or recent
immigrants at the crossings as they
just stand there like pillocks waiting for the green man even if
the road is clear for hundreds of metres in either direction.

Like you in France?

I was talking about crossing busy roads in france, not empty ones.

Depending on layout, local knowledge can be required.

There is a light controlled pedestrian crossing outside my house. This
is a residential road that I don't expect many tourists use it. Some can
be seen to cross without pressing the button, some press the button
before looking and then cross when they see it is clear, some press the
button and stand and wait. I usually cross 25 yards from the crossing.

Drivers stop for red even though they arrive after the person crossing
has long gone.

On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 19:07:55 +0100
TMS320 wrote:
On 11/09/18 14:51, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:30:44 +0100 TMS320 wrote:
On 11/09/18 12:24, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 11:04:56 +0100 "NY" wrote:

Some countries regard crossing the road at anything other than
a designated crossing, or crossing at a red pedestrian light,
as jaywalking - an

No surprise that the anally retentive germans are in that list.

Perhaps they don't die from old age waiting for the lights to
change...

Here in London its obvious who are the tourists or recent
immigrants at the crossings as they
just stand there like pillocks waiting for the green man even if
the road is clear for hundreds of metres in either direction.

Like you in France?

I was talking about crossing busy roads in france, not empty ones.

Depending on layout, local knowledge can be required.

There is a light controlled pedestrian crossing outside my house. This
is a residential road that I don't expect many tourists use it. Some can
be seen to cross without pressing the button, some press the button
before looking and then cross when they see it is clear, some press the
button and stand and wait. I usually cross 25 yards from the crossing.

Drivers stop for red even though they arrive after the person crossing
has long gone.

Unfortunately it would seem most of the crossings in this country have no
pedestrian or traffic detection systems built in or are just poorly
programmed. There's one in my high street that seems to have been programmed
to stay green to traffic when the road is clear but as soon as a car comes
along to switch to red and let the pedestrians cross. But as you say, by this
time the person who pressed the button has already crossed.