|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
"Cycle safety mirrors to be mounted to London’s traffic lights"
Seems like a good idea, perhaps. I still think HGV drivers should have
cycle training and use vehicles with proper mirrors and sideguards, which should be mandatory. "Large mirrors are to be fitted to traffic lights in London in a bid to reduce the number of cyclists killed and seriously injured by left- turning lorries. The majority of cyclists killed in London are in collision with a heavy goods vehicle and in most cases the lorry was turning left and the driver failed to see the cyclist. The new mirrors are designed to reduce the chance of this happening by allowing the driver a view of anyone just below the front of the cab or between the lorry and the kerb. Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, last year came close to being seriously injured by a lorry in an incident captured on CCTV. Mirrors to be tested on ‘superhighways’ Subject to approval from the Department for Transport, the mirrors are to be installed on new ‘cycle superhighways’ due to be launched next month. The improved cycle lanes will link the City and Colliers Wood, and Barking and Tower Gateway with twenty-four miles of 1.5-metre wide strips of blue coloured cycle lane — the first of twelve routes to be built over the next five years..." http://www.eta.co.uk/2010/06/24/cycl...raffic-lights? -- . UK Radical Campaigns. http://www.zing.icom43.net A driving licence is a licence to kill. |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
"Cycle safety mirrors to be mounted to London’s traffic lights"
Doug wrote:
Seems like a good idea, perhaps. I still think HGV drivers should have cycle training and use vehicles with proper mirrors and sideguards, which should be mandatory. Perhaps cyclists should be made to sit in the cab of a HGV, it might make them wake up to the blind spots. "Large mirrors are to be fitted to traffic lights in London in a bid to reduce the number of cyclists killed and seriously injured by left- turning lorries. The majority of cyclists killed in London are in collision with a heavy goods vehicle and in most cases the lorry was turning left and the driver failed to see the cyclist. Who has often rode into a dangerous position. The new mirrors are designed to reduce the chance of this happening by allowing the driver a view of anyone just below the front of the cab or between the lorry and the kerb. Seems a good idea. Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, last year came close to being seriously injured by a lorry in an incident captured on CCTV. Mirrors to be tested on ‘superhighways’ Subject to approval from the Department for Transport, the mirrors are to be installed on new ‘cycle superhighways’ due to be launched next month. The improved cycle lanes will link the City and Colliers Wood, and Barking and Tower Gateway with twenty-four miles of 1.5-metre wide strips of blue coloured cycle lane — the first of twelve routes to be built over the next five years..." http://www.eta.co.uk/2010/06/24/cycl...raffic-lights? -- . UK Radical Campaigns. http://www.zing.icom43.net A driving licence is a licence to kill. -- Tony Dragon |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
"Cycle safety mirrors to be mounted to London’s traffic lights"
On 26 June, 13:19, Tony Dragon wrote:
Doug wrote: Seems like a good idea, perhaps. I still think HGV drivers should have cycle training and use vehicles with proper mirrors and sideguards, which should be mandatory. Perhaps cyclists should be made to sit in the cab of a HGV, it might make them wake up to the blind spots. "Large mirrors are to be fitted to traffic lights in London in a bid to reduce the number of cyclists killed and seriously injured by left- turning lorries. The majority of cyclists killed in London are in collision with a heavy goods vehicle and in most cases the lorry was turning left and the driver failed to see the cyclist. Who has often rode into a dangerous position. The new mirrors are designed to reduce the chance of this happening by allowing the driver a view of anyone just below the front of the cab or between the lorry and the kerb. Seems a good idea. Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, last year came close to being seriously injured by a lorry in an incident captured on CCTV. Mirrors to be tested on superhighways Subject to approval from the Department for Transport, the mirrors are to be installed on new cycle superhighways due to be launched next month. The improved cycle lanes will link the City and Colliers Wood, and Barking and Tower Gateway with twenty-four miles of 1.5-metre wide strips of blue coloured cycle lane the first of twelve routes to be built over the next five years..." http://www.eta.co.uk/2010/06/24/cycl...-mounted-londo... -- . UK Radical Campaigns. http://www.zing.icom43.net A driving licence is a licence to kill. -- Tony Dragon HGV driver to cyclist: "Sorry mate, I didn't see you. There was a light flashing in my eyes. That bloody mirror!" |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
"Cycle safety mirrors to be mounted to London’s traffic lights"
Doug wrote:
Seems like a good idea, perhaps. I still think HGV drivers should have cycle training and use vehicles with proper mirrors and sideguards, which should be mandatory. "Large mirrors are to be fitted to traffic lights in London in a bid to reduce the number of cyclists killed and seriously injured by left- turning lorries. The majority of cyclists killed in London are in collision with a heavy goods vehicle and in most cases the lorry was turning left and the driver failed to see the cyclist. The new mirrors are designed to reduce the chance of this happening by allowing the driver a view of anyone just below the front of the cab or between the lorry and the kerb. A *bad* idea. The situation, both practical and legal, should be the same at *every* junction in the UK. Trying to "solve" the problem by blaming people for not being able to see through solid steel panels is totally hare-brained. Solutions which are provided only at selected locations (nd which therefore muddy the real issue) are equally to be deplored. The only real solution is obvious: *don't overtake on the nearside*, and particularly not on the nearside of a lorry waiting to turn left at traffic lights. That system works everywhere, without the need for mirrors to be bought, erected and maintained, at cost to the txpayer. Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, last year came close to being seriously injured by a lorry in an incident captured on CCTV. No, he didn't. But even if he had, it would be irrelevant. Subject to approval from the Department for Transport, ....which intelligent people must hope will NOT be forthcomiung... ...the mirrors are to be installed on new ‘cycle superhighways’ due to be launched next month |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
"Cycle safety mirrors to be mounted to London’s traffic lights"
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 15:05:29 +0100, JNugent
wrote: Doug wrote: The new mirrors are designed to reduce the chance of this happening by allowing the driver a view of anyone just below the front of the cab or between the lorry and the kerb. A *bad* idea. The situation, both practical and legal, should be the same at *every* junction in the UK. Trying to "solve" the problem by blaming people for not being able to see through solid steel panels is totally hare-brained. Solutions which are provided only at selected locations (nd which therefore muddy the real issue) are equally to be deplored. I more or less agree with this. The only real solution is obvious: *don't overtake on the nearside*, and particularly not on the nearside of a lorry waiting to turn left at traffic lights. That system works everywhere, ... No it doesn't. It doesn't cater for cases where the lorry overtakes the cyclist, or stops behind/beside a cyclist who is already there, and the driver then forgets the cyclist because he can no longer see her. Bikeability cycle training helps by teaching cyclists to use a more prominent road position where it's harder for lorries to come alongside. ASLs if properly used and enforced help too. Training for lorry drivers is essential. But how can it be acceptable for drivers to go over a piece of road when they have no idea if it's clear or not? Personally I favour a compulsory redesign of lorry cabs to put drivers a lot lower down. Colin McKenzie -- No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking. Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
"Cycle safety mirrors to be mounted to London’s traffic lights"
Colin McKenzie wrote:
JNugent wrote: Doug wrote: The new mirrors are designed to reduce the chance of this happening by allowing the driver a view of anyone just below the front of the cab or between the lorry and the kerb. A *bad* idea. The situation, both practical and legal, should be the same at *every* junction in the UK. Trying to "solve" the problem by blaming people for not being able to see through solid steel panels is totally hare-brained. Solutions which are provided only at selected locations (nd which therefore muddy the real issue) are equally to be deplored. I more or less agree with this. The only real solution is obvious: *don't overtake on the nearside*, and particularly not on the nearside of a lorry waiting to turn left at traffic lights. That system works everywhere, ... No it doesn't. panto mode Oh yes, it does. It doesn't cater for cases where the lorry overtakes the cyclist, or stops behind/beside a cyclist who is already there, and the driver then forgets the cyclist because he can no longer see her. Since it isn't meant to cater for those cases, and could not cater for such cases in any event (what can, other than making careless driving an offence?*), that is a non-sequitur. [* Hang on... careless driving is already an offence.] Bikeability cycle training helps by teaching cyclists to use a more prominent road position where it's harder for lorries to come alongside. ASLs if properly used and enforced help too. That's not relevant to what I said. I agree that driving without due care and attention is an offence. But that is a separate matter and doesn't only involve cyclists. I was addressing what cyclists can and should do. In this context, I don't think it is helpful to concentrate on the sort of obvious bad driving you describe, now matter how infrequently it may be encountered, simply because it is outside the control of those most at risk. OTOH, it is crucial that all road-users do realise that very large vehicles can often make left turns (in driving-on-the-left countries like the UK) only after a wide swing to the right. For that reason, a flashing left-indicator should always be taken absolutely at its word, irrespective of any intuition a following road-user might (mistakenly) feel about the vehicle's "body language". Training for lorry drivers is essential. Not relevant to what I said, and already done in any case (I'm sure that you *must* have already heard about the two separate courses of driving instruction and examination for lorry drivers). And see above. But how can it be acceptable for drivers to go over a piece of road when they have no idea if it's clear or not? Not relevant to what I said. See above. Personally I favour a compulsory redesign of lorry cabs to put drivers a lot lower down. Well, best of luck with that particular one, especially as goods vehicles are built to internationally-agreed standards and designs. Perhaps you could also arrange for public fountains to dispense a decent Claret? :-) |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
"Cycle safety mirrors to be mounted toLondon’s traffic lights"
On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:59:36 +0100, JNugent wrote:
Colin McKenzie wrote: JNugent wrote: The situation, both practical and legal, should be the same at *every* junction in the UK. Trying to "solve" the problem by blaming people for not being able to see through solid steel panels is totally hare-brained. Solutions which are provided only at selected locations (nd which therefore muddy the real issue) are equally to be deplored. I more or less agree with this. The only real solution is obvious: *don't overtake on the nearside*, and particularly not on the nearside of a lorry waiting to turn left at traffic lights. That system works everywhere, ... No it doesn't. panto mode Oh yes, it does. OK, please explain to me how it works when I stop in the middle of teh 'left turn and straight ahead' lane, and after I have stopped an HGV pulls up tight alongside with some wheels in my lane and most of teh vehicle in teh 'right turn' lane. Then, when teh lights change, the HGV proceeds to turn left. Since it isn't meant to cater for those cases, and could not cater for such cases in any event (what can, other than making careless driving an offence?*), that is a non-sequitur. Oh I see. It caters for all teh case that it caters for, but doesn't cater for many cases, but that's ok because it doesn't cater for them. Much like, say, putting mirrors on traffic lights. That caters very well for all teh cases it caters very well for too. But hold on, you were scornful of that becasue it doesn't cater for all places. So is a partial solution acceptable or not? -- |\ /| no .sig |o o| |/ \| |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
"Cycle safety mirrors to be mounted to London's traffic lights"
Ian Smith wrote:
JNugent wrote: Colin McKenzie wrote: JNugent wrote: The situation, both practical and legal, should be the same at *every* junction in the UK. Trying to "solve" the problem by blaming people for not being able to see through solid steel panels is totally hare-brained. Solutions which are provided only at selected locations (nd which therefore muddy the real issue) are equally to be deplored. I more or less agree with this. The only real solution is obvious: *don't overtake on the nearside*, and particularly not on the nearside of a lorry waiting to turn left at traffic lights. That system works everywhere, ... No it doesn't. panto mode Oh yes, it does. OK, please explain to me how it works when I stop in the middle of teh 'left turn and straight ahead' lane, and after I have stopped an HGV pulls up tight alongside with some wheels in my lane and most of teh vehicle in teh 'right turn' lane. Then, when teh lights change, the HGV proceeds to turn left. It doesn't. It isn't meant to. There was a heavy clue in the bit where I *said* it wasn't meant to. You can't stop that from happening (it's a different problem) and I didn't suggest that you can. The best you could do would be to never undertake a lorry waiting to turn left at a set of lights. That's all the (lawful) control you have. That isn't controversial. Since it isn't meant to cater for those cases, and could not cater for such cases in any event (what can, other than making careless driving an offence?*), that is a non-sequitur. Oh I see. It caters for all teh case that it caters for, but doesn't cater for many cases, but that's ok because it doesn't cater for them. That's right. It works where it applies. A cyclist has control - to a certain extent - in some circumstances. In others, he doesn't have so much control, and in yet other circumstances, he has none at all. There's no recipe for exercising control where there is none available, and I wasn't trying to provide one. But you knew that and were just acting daft, weren't you? Much like, say, putting mirrors on traffic lights. That caters very well for all teh cases it caters very well for too. But hold on, you were scornful of that becasue it doesn't cater for all places. Correct. You can't have one set of traffic laws in part of the UK and a different set everywhere else. So is a partial solution acceptable or not? A partial solution to what? The problem which occurs when a cyclist undertakes a stationary lorry (a frequent occurrence, ISTM) is not the same problem which occurs when a lorry-driver maneouvres his vehicle so as to ignore a cyclist right in front of him (a much less frequent occurrence, ISTM). They don't have the same solution. A solution to one is a total solution for that problem and a non-solution for the other. There is no question of its a partial solution. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Traffic lights to have blind spot mirrors fitted | Matt B | UK | 61 | June 19th 09 11:41 PM |
"Cycle safety called for" | Just zis Guy, you know? | UK | 51 | August 4th 08 05:17 PM |
"UK minister backs call for more traffic police to protect cyclists" | [email protected] | UK | 9 | July 2nd 08 09:08 AM |
Where can I get "The London Cycle Guides"? | bornfree | UK | 8 | June 11th 08 10:48 AM |
Question for "On The Road", a local column regarding traffic issues | Claire Petersky | General | 3 | August 19th 06 03:24 PM |