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standover height significance for traditional road frame (i.e. with horizontal top tube) such as Trek Madone?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 5th 05, 10:41 AM
Yuri Budilov
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Default standover height significance for traditional road frame (i.e. with horizontal top tube) such as Trek Madone?

Hello

I am new to road cycling. I am male, 173cm height (~5'8" & 1/2 inches) ,
with ~83 cm inseam.

In a traditional frame (horizontal top tube) road cycle geometry such as
2005 Trek Madone, for example, what should the desired stand over clearance
be? The Trek chart says 54cm frame top tube standover is 76.9cm i.e. 6.1 cm
clearance for my 83cm inseam (~2.5 inches?). Is this frame too small? The
next size up (56cm) standover is 78.9cm i.e. 4.1cm clearance (1.5 inches)?
Better? If there a rule of thumb on this topic? Is it important?

I know from the Trek geometry chart that its top tube is 54.6cm (size=54
frame). What else should I be concerned about when trying to decide on Trek
Madone road frame size? It appears that applying one formula I know of:
Inseam*0.66 = 54.8 cm top tube length i.e. perfect for 54cm Madone frame? A
56cm Madone top tube is 56.2cm i.e. about 14mm too long for my height?

Perhaps some folks with my height and inseam can shed some light on what
size frames and stem lengths they find comfortable?

thanks in advance


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  #2  
Old July 5th 05, 02:07 PM
Art Harris
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Default

Yuri Budilov wrote:

I am male, 173cm height (~5'8" & 1/2 inches), with ~83 cm inseam.


The Trek chart says 54cm frame top tube standover is 76.9cm i.e. 6.1 cm clearance for my 83cm inseam (~2.5 inches?). Is this frame too small?


Standover height is not a critical factor as long as you have at least
1-2cm of clearance. Concentrate more on the top tube length, seat tube
angle, and overall comfort on the bike. Do the bars seem too low? Too
close? Too far?

It appears that applying one formula I know of: Inseam*0.66 = 54.8 cm top tube length i.e. perfect for 54cm Madone frame?


Top tube length should be determined by your torso and arm length. It's
not related to leg length.

Try riding the 54cm frame and the next larger size, and see which feels
better. The 2.5-inch clearance you mention is not unusual by today's
standards, although I personally prefer less. Just make sure you can
get the bars high enough.

Art Harris

  #3  
Old July 5th 05, 10:05 PM
Yuri Budilov
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Default


"Art Harris" wrote in message
ps.com...
Yuri Budilov wrote:

\
Top tube length should be determined by your torso and arm length. It's
not related to leg length.

Try riding the 54cm frame and the next larger size, and see which feels
better. The 2.5-inch clearance you mention is not unusual by today's
standards, although I personally prefer less. Just make sure you can
get the bars high enough.


thank you Art. I owned a 56cm Trek 1000 last year and even with angled-up
100mm stem it seemed a bit too long for me and I could never ride in the
drops (beyond 20-30 seconds?). Even on 56cm bike the bar seemed low but
could it have been because it was a bit too long for me?

So I am inclined to try 54cm. If I subtract my inseam (83cm) from overall
height of 173cm, it would mean torso length of 90cm, less head+neck, right?
Does this number lead to a preference - 56cm or 54cm Madone frame?
Unfortunately there are no 54cm test rides in Madone so I am going by
process of elimination here......


  #4  
Old July 6th 05, 05:24 AM
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Default

thank you Art. I owned a 56cm Trek 1000 last year and even with angled-up
100mm stem it seemed a bit too long for me and I could never ride in the
drops (beyond 20-30 seconds?). Even on 56cm bike the bar seemed low but
could it have been because it was a bit too long for me?


Yuri: There's nothing wrong with using a stem shorter than 100mm (normally
called 10cm), and it's quite possible (even likely) that you may need a 56cm
Madone in order to get the handlebars high enough. The key is the drop from
seat to handlebar, and, naturally enough, on a 56cm the minimum drop is
going to be 2cm less than what can be accomplished on a 54cm.

The main reason for going to a smaller size is to keep the top tube length
in check, but this really shouldn't be guesswork. Where is the shop in this
process? How do they handle fits? If it's the sort of place where it's up to
the customer to decide what fits best, you might look elsewhere. There
should be somebody at the shop who knows more about fitting a road bike than
you do, and if not, as I said, keep looking. Getting properly fit is going
to be the biggest factor in determining how much you enjoy riding a bike.

So I am inclined to try 54cm. If I subtract my inseam (83cm) from overall
height of 173cm, it would mean torso length of 90cm, less head+neck,
right? Does this number lead to a preference - 56cm or 54cm Madone frame?
Unfortunately there are no 54cm test rides in Madone so I am going by
process of elimination here......


You don't have to ride a 54cm Madone to test the fit, as the Trek 5000, and
even the less-expensive road bikes (1500, 2100 etc) all have
nearly-identical geometries.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Yuri Budilov" wrote in message
...

"Art Harris" wrote in message
ps.com...
Yuri Budilov wrote:

\
Top tube length should be determined by your torso and arm length. It's
not related to leg length.

Try riding the 54cm frame and the next larger size, and see which feels
better. The 2.5-inch clearance you mention is not unusual by today's
standards, although I personally prefer less. Just make sure you can
get the bars high enough.


thank you Art. I owned a 56cm Trek 1000 last year and even with angled-up
100mm stem it seemed a bit too long for me and I could never ride in the
drops (beyond 20-30 seconds?). Even on 56cm bike the bar seemed low but
could it have been because it was a bit too long for me?

So I am inclined to try 54cm. If I subtract my inseam (83cm) from overall
height of 173cm, it would mean torso length of 90cm, less head+neck,
right? Does this number lead to a preference - 56cm or 54cm Madone frame?
Unfortunately there are no 54cm test rides in Madone so I am going by
process of elimination here......



  #5  
Old July 6th 05, 10:29 PM
Yuri Budilov
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Default

thanks Mike

the shop said I could ride either one i.e. in between. There is a guy at the
shop who is ~3/4 on an inch taller than me and he rides a 56cm Madone and he
used to ride a 54cm so we figured I might be a touch better on a 54cm with
my 5'8" height and 32.5" inseam.

How much can a Madone handle-bar be raised by on a 54cm, if I need to? I
already plan to flip the standard 100/110mm stem upwards to raise it. Can I
fill up the spacers?

much obliged once again


  #6  
Old July 8th 05, 05:01 PM
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Default

the shop said I could ride either one i.e. in between. There is a guy at
the shop who is ~3/4 on an inch taller than me and he rides a 56cm Madone
and he used to ride a 54cm so we figured I might be a touch better on a
54cm with my 5'8" height and 32.5" inseam.

How much can a Madone handle-bar be raised by on a 54cm, if I need to? I
already plan to flip the standard 100/110mm stem upwards to raise it. Can
I fill up the spacers?

much obliged once again


What's the distance from the center of your bottom bracket to the top of the
saddle? With that I can mock something up quickly on the floor, and get an
idea of where your bars are going to end up.

Trek supplies 4cm of spacers that are typically used underneath the stem.
The stock stem is a 7-degree, and you can easily get it another 3/4" higher
with a 17-degree.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


  #7  
Old July 8th 05, 11:33 PM
Yuri Budilov
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
. com...

What's the distance from the center of your bottom bracket to the top of
the saddle? With that I can mock something up quickly on the floor, and
get an idea of where your bars are going to end up.


if you are asking about my desired saddle height from centre of bottom
bracket, where the pedals are, along the seat tube and to the top of the
saddle then it is about 73cm give or take 5mm. I have 83cm inseam (or a
touch under like 82.5cm). I find 72cm gives me some knee pain so I ride
about ~73cm with no ill effects. The cranks are 172.5mm long.


Trek supplies 4cm of spacers that are typically used underneath the stem.
The stock stem is a 7-degree, and you can easily get it another 3/4"
higher with a 17-degree.


You are correct!

I finally got to sit on the bike last night and it looks like I need a short
90mm stem on a 54cm Madone and all the spacers, as you said, at the bottom -
there are 4 spacers there already. Is this a bad thing? I even flipped the
stem upwards i.e +7 degrees.

I can't believe that I need a smaller 52cm Madone frame with 5 foot 8 inches
height???? In other words does 90mm stem mean this is 54cm Madone is the
wrong size/geometry for my body proportions? Or does it mean that any Madone
does not fit me in any size and I should be looking at a different frame?

I figure Trek sells a lot of Madone's out there and I am according to a
professional bike fitter just an average guy of regular shape, regular arm
and leg lengths for my height.... Should I find comfort on a 54cm Madone or
not?

Much obliged for your assistance!


  #8  
Old July 10th 05, 08:12 AM
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Default

Trek supplies 4cm of spacers that are typically used underneath the stem.
The stock stem is a 7-degree, and you can easily get it another 3/4"
higher with a 17-degree.


You are correct!

I finally got to sit on the bike last night and it looks like I need a
short 90mm stem on a 54cm Madone and all the spacers, as you said, at the
bottom - there are 4 spacers there already. Is this a bad thing? I even
flipped the stem upwards i.e +7 degrees.


Certainly not a bad thing, and many of the bikes we sell are set up
*exactly* that way. Nothing at all wrong with a 9cm stem on a road bike.
It's served me very well for a good number of years; in fact, when I raced,
my road bike had an 8cm stem, while my criterium bike was 12cm, due entirely
to differences in top tube length. Both bikes handled just fine. In fact, I
was more comfortable on the bike with the 8cm stem.

I can't believe that I need a smaller 52cm Madone frame with 5 foot 8
inches height???? In other words does 90mm stem mean this is 54cm Madone
is the wrong size/geometry for my body proportions? Or does it mean that
any Madone does not fit me in any size and I should be looking at a
different frame?


I can almost guarantee that you're better off on a 54cm than a 52cm.

I figure Trek sells a lot of Madone's out there and I am according to a
professional bike fitter just an average guy of regular shape, regular arm
and leg lengths for my height.... Should I find comfort on a 54cm Madone
or not?


At 5'8", it's hard to believe you would fit a 52cm Madone. Keep in mind that
Trek is measure center-to-top, and that the "top" is actually the top of the
seat collar, which extends a ways above the top tube. Thus a 54cm Madone
would be considered a 51cm in a bike measured center-to-center. In other
words, it's not a large frame.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


  #9  
Old July 11th 05, 10:57 AM
Yuri Budilov
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
...
Trek supplies 4cm of spacers that are typically used underneath the
stem. The stock stem is a 7-degree, and you can easily get it another
3/4" higher with a 17-degree.


You are correct!

I finally got to sit on the bike last night and it looks like I need a
short 90mm stem on a 54cm Madone and all the spacers, as you said, at the
bottom - there are 4 spacers there already. Is this a bad thing? I even
flipped the stem upwards i.e +7 degrees.


Certainly not a bad thing, and many of the bikes we sell are set up
*exactly* that way. Nothing at all wrong with a 9cm stem on a road bike.
It's served me very well for a good number of years; in fact, when I
raced, my road bike had an 8cm stem, while my criterium bike was 12cm, due
entirely to differences in top tube length. Both bikes handled just fine.
In fact, I was more comfortable on the bike with the 8cm stem.

I can't believe that I need a smaller 52cm Madone frame with 5 foot 8
inches height???? In other words does 90mm stem mean this is 54cm Madone
is the wrong size/geometry for my body proportions? Or does it mean that
any Madone does not fit me in any size and I should be looking at a
different frame?


I can almost guarantee that you're better off on a 54cm than a 52cm.

I figure Trek sells a lot of Madone's out there and I am according to a
professional bike fitter just an average guy of regular shape, regular
arm and leg lengths for my height.... Should I find comfort on a 54cm
Madone or not?


At 5'8", it's hard to believe you would fit a 52cm Madone. Keep in mind
that Trek is measure center-to-top, and that the "top" is actually the top
of the seat collar, which extends a ways above the top tube. Thus a 54cm
Madone would be considered a 51cm in a bike measured center-to-center. In
other words, it's not a large frame.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


Thank you Mike! Do you think, based on what you have read so far, that I may
have been better off on a larger 56cm Madone frame instead of a 54cm Trek
Madone, with my 5'8".2 height and 32.5" (82.5-83cm) inseam?

I finally got to ride it and managed 30 miles. No immediate problems that I
can see so far. Based on that I might even have to go back to longer 100mm
(10cm) in future because I felt like I wanted to slide my saddle a bit
forward to be able to spin more comfortably and generate more power to the
pedals..... But this would put me +1cm in front of KOPS. I am not sure if
this would be wrong and I should persevere with my current neutral-KOPS
setup for longer....


 




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