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#122
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Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
On Mon, 17 May 2004 14:22:54 -0400, Top Sirloin
wrote in message : Don't bother Mark. The liberals are only interested in spewing lies, hatred and confusion so they can get back in power and go back to doing nothing about terrorism, That will be why America was subjected to its worst terrorist attack shortly after that notorious liberal George W Bush's foreign policy started to take effect, then. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University |
#123
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Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
Bob Yates wrote in message ...
Thanks to all for the information that Kerry was lying when he said the war was not about oil. Looks like I will vote for Bush, at least he didn't shoot kill wounded prisoners. I think you are talking about former Senator Bob Kerrey, no relation to Senator John Kerry. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/ju...kerr-j06.shtml Get it straight so you don't wind up coming off as a jackass. G. W. Bush is the only war criminal involved in the race for the presidency in 2004. Chalo Colina |
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Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)t
wrote: Eric S. Sande writes: We are the driving force behind Al Qaeda. That's deep, Jobst. I have no argument with it other than to suggest that we need to come to terms with our enemy and end the killing. Negotiation with "terrorists" is not our way. This is not a negotiation situation. 9-11 was a response to the USA financing of demeaning and humiliation of primarily Palestinians and secondarily support of dictators like the Shah Pahlavi and Saddam Hussein just as we supported Fulgencio Battista in Cuba and Trujillo and Manuel Noriega in Panama and the assassination of Salvador Allende to be replaced by Augusto Pinochet: http://www.neravt.com/left/allende.htm http://tinyurl.com/2np65 Bush43 was still getting drunk and snorting coke when that stuff happened. "In his first message to Congress, Allende announced his intention of amending the constitution to create the popular assembly as well as to destroy the legal basis of capitalism. The government and its supporters began to implement the program." Scary stuff. Bascically the piece shows Allende was a robber/crook. And I'm not a spokesman for Ariel Sharon. I am not either but our enemies in the middle east know that Sharon is nothing without support from Washington. Say that is so... You think it is "new" in the last 3.5 years? You will be aware that Al Qaeda offered negotiation with the EU after the Madrid train station bombing, it was rejected. What is there to negotiate? Nothing. The USA needs to back of world domination under the guise of liberating people from their government and religion, when actually business interests are the driving force. In Vietnam it was suspected offshore oil. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/vietnam.html It must be true because you say it is so. It is possible that a dialogue could be established with these people. That would be a good first step. You see what sort of dialog would ensue, considering the cover-up about the prisoner treatment where "pfc guilty" is being brought to trial. The "cover-up" is in the news everyday. When a ship runs aground in port the captain is relieved of duty. When this sort of interrogation occurs in prison, officers fairly high in the chain of command are guilty along with the top man who denies knowing anything about it. Liar liar pants on fire, is about all people outside the USA can say. This is in face of international Red Cross detailed reports. As the saying goes "**** rolls downhill." There is nothing new about that. High ranking officers, executives, and managers, are just as much blamers (or perhaps more so) as everyone else. Maybe they just get away with it more often. The situation has reached a state that is difficult to recover. To me it is apparent that the Bush administration cannot resolve the crisis without admitting huge errors in judgment and diplomacy and lies that got us into the situation. That this is "politics," and the fact that it is an election year certainly makes any admission of error improbable. That practice is hardly constrained to Bush in the current time or any time. It is for the others who wish to gain power to sufficiently make the case about characterizations like "huge" and "lies." Writing about Vietnam and Allende probably isn't the strongest attack, just so you know. That alone means we must change leaders in November if not sooner, ... I rather felt this was one of those discombobulated election politics arguments. ...but that still does not get us out of where we are. There is no military solution. One can only wonder what that could mean. That should be clear to anyone who can read history and project the course we are on. We have dismantled the Iraqi military, police and other government functions, and cannot turn the nation over to anyone to run it if we pull out. What would follow is mayhem worse than what occurred after the defeat of the army. There was destruction and looting in magnitudes not seen even in WWII. This was allowed to occur by Mr. Rumsfeld to "punish the Iraqis" as if they had a hand in the causing anything that affected the USA. I find your choice of words "interesting," but unconvincing. It is not so much "what happened," as it is your claims about intent. I spent time in the US Army and the subject of civil order after military victory was high priority. Highly important after defeating an enemy force in cities was re-establishing to law and order. What happened in Iraq is outlined in military texts in detail. If Rummy says he didn't know or expect that, then he is unbelievably uneducated or lying. The story goes that the military victory happened more quickly than anyone expected and that they were unprepared. Perhaps you are correct, but maybe not. The old saying about "history repeating itself" was created because someone repeated it. He might have simply thought he could get away with less troops and planning during post-conquest than others. In any case, there has been for months criticism that Rumsfield has not had sufficient numbers of troops in Iraq. From what I have heard in the news, the military is trying to establish law and order. One can certainly argue about the effectiveness. You are the first person I've heard stating that Rumsfield intended lawlessness. Did you figure that out yourself or did you have help? |
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Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)t
gwhite wrote:
You are the first person I've heard stating that Rumsfield intended lawlessness. Did you figure that out yourself or did you have help? You must be asleep. For a start: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact Matt O. |
#126
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Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
"James Calivar" wrote:
wrote: Maybe you haven't followed the news but Al Qaeda is stronger, has more allies, and is a larger threat today than before the onset of the Iraqi war. You cannot destroy Al Qaeda with military action. Wrong. I think what Jobst is saying is that using murderous military methods to destroy Al Qaeda wil inevitably result in a lot more of the same sort of organizations and activities typefied by Al Qaeda. It's a vicious circle that nets the opposite of the intended effect, unless it culminates in the complete genocide of the weaker opponent. Witness the situation in the Americas. In the United States, the native peoples were exterminated completely enough that there was no remaining nation, per se, with whom to settle matters. Therefore the United States has a lasting "peace" with its native people. In Central and South America, not all the native societies were eradicated completely, so there is violent conflict in Chiapas and elsewhere some 500 years after the "defeat" of the native people. If you think that a small handful of wealthy and powerful societies can exterminate the entire Muslim world to the degree that the USA exterminated the American Indians, you are simply mistaken. The penalty for trying and failing will be endless war and violence which will be the fault of those with the hubris to act as aggressive invaders. Chalo Colina |
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Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
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#128
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Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
Bob Yates wrote:
... Looks like I will vote for Bush, at least he didn't shoot kill wounded prisoners. Yes, it would have been hard for G. W. Bush to shoot wounded Vietnamese prisoners while he was dodging the draft in the National Guard position "Daddy" Bush obtained for him. Unless of course, that is what he was doing while he was AWOL from his National Guard duty. -- Tom Sherman – Quad Cities |
#129
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Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
Tim McTeague wrote:
...And I don't let the American people off the hook for not really paying attention. Many, if not most, still think Iraq had something to do with 9/11! There is quite likely a connection between Iraq and the terrorist attacks of 9-11-01 (or 11-9-01 by the European system). Anger over the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis indirectly caused by the US targeting of Iraqi infrastructure (such as water and waste water treatment plants) during the 1991 Gulf War followed by the US led economic sanctions was likely part of the motivation for the attacks on 9-11-01. -- Tom Sherman – Quad Cities |
#130
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Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
Mark Hickey wrote:
The Iraqi insurgents use civilians as shields... The Iraqis attacking the occupying forces are not insurgents, but a legitimate (by international law and convention) resistance opposing a foreign occupation. -- Tom Sherman – Quad Cities |
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