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#72
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On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 15:50:49 -0800, Ryan Cousineau
wrote: In article , wrote: On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:10:47 -0600, Jeff Starr wrote: On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:07:28 -0700, wrote: wrote: In any case, as I understand it, the only real value of cleats is for extraordinary climbs and perhaps very brief sprints, Carl, didn't we explain, why those of us who use clipless, like them and why, a long time ago? I seem to remember telling you why I liked them. I know this topic has been covered, more than once. Dear Jeff, You may have explained what you like about them, but I don't recall the thread--and your present explanation is somewhat vague. Why do you like them? I can tell you why I like them: because my feet don't come off the pedals, no matter what. In traffic, this means more sure-footed, quicker acceleration from a stop, which turns out to be very useful at times. I have a fun bike with flat pedals (but serious ones: pegged BMX-style platforms on the notorious BMX LX, the little bike with the 7-speed drivetrain), and aside from general nervousness, I just can't sprint as hard, and I find myself being much more conscious of foot weighting. In essence, platforms don't tolerate any divergence from a clean pedaling technique, and if you manage to get yourself in trouble, your foot is likely to come off the pedals. I would describe the essence of clipless as being about a positive connection to the pedals. This is the same feeling you get from using clips-and-straps, except with easy unclipping. Note that flat pedals have their place: freeriders and other types of stunt riders (BMX freestyle, urban mountain bikers, dirt jumpers, etc.) swear by flats, and it is an oft-repeated maxim that the proper way to learn bunnyhops is to use flat pedals, so you don't get into the bad habits clipless teaches you (you can basically pull a bike off the ground with clipless and a jump, but serious bunny hops involve an odd up-and-over movement with the handlebars and no lifting with the feet, except a bit of back-and-up that can be done even on flat (pegged) pedals). I ride clipless on some fairly stunty dirt trails, Dear Ryan, Yes, cleats should let a rider accelerate more quickly because of the added extra power of pulling up with the hind leg, just as they allow a rider to climb a steeper hill (but not for long). But I'm a little dubious about how much practical difference is actually gained by such violent efforts, since bicycles generally accelerate like slugs and climbs that require pulling up with the back foot had better be awfully short. (The comment applies to bunny hops, which are fun, but not something indulged in by most riders wearing cleats.) I'm also still a little dubious of the fears that the feet of upright riders need to be restrained lest they fly off during normal pedalling. After all, even at a fairly frantic 120 rpm on a 175mm crank, our feet are moving in circles at just under 5 mph--about 4.92 mph, according to my spreadsheet. (With his 180mm crank, Jobst would be spinning at 5.06 mph at 120 rpm, but I think that his mashing habits make this unlikely.) At 90 rpm, of course, the foot on a 175mm crank moves at a steady 3.7 mph. Walking and pedalling are hardly perfect analogies, but it's worth pointing out that during normal brisk walking at 4 mph, each foot routinely accelerates from a dead stop (foot on ground) to around 8 mph (middle of stride) and back to 0 mph (foot on ground again) with every step. I gather that many people just like the feeling of cleats, which seems to me like a perfectly good reason to use them. One use for cleats that I forgot is to help recumbent riders, whose feet otherwise do tend to fall off the pedals when coasting because their leg angle prevents gravity from gluing their feet to the pedals. Carl Fogel |
#73
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Carl Fogel wrote:
... One use for cleats that I forgot is to help recumbent riders, whose feet otherwise do tend to fall off the pedals when coasting because their leg angle prevents gravity from gluing their feet to the pedals. Foot retention is an absolute must on a recumbent with the bottom bracket higher than the seat for all but short rides. I switched from SH55 "M" (multi-release) to SH51 "S" (single-release) SPuD cleats, after accidentally disengaging from a pedal during climbing. -- Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island |
#74
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On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:47:35 -0500, PSB wrote:
So which would you recommend? Neither. If you can't either search the classifieds for a decent affordable used ride, or pony up a measly amount of cash for an entry level bike at your LBS, then find another sport. BTW, my everyday rider cost about fifty bucks at a 2nd hand store--worth a lot more now, but you get the idea. From what I've seen of those dept store bikes--sure they have cheap shimano hanging on them, but all the ball bearings are ****. Having a bike shop replace the bottom bracket on a huffy after a year is going to cost more than the bike. Quality bikes are the cheapest they've ever been, take advantage of that. |
#75
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A Muzi wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote: When I was 13, my bicycle was a Peugeot P-8 purchased new from Andrew Muzi/Yellow Jersey that cost ~$260 (IIRC). This was a small fortune (for me), and you can be assured I took care of it. When I outgrew it in my late teens, I passed it on to a relative who commuted on it for 10+ years, until it was destroyed by a pick-up truck driver running a stop sign. Otherwise, I expect it would still be in use 2+ decades later. This was the low-end of the Peugeot range, but the ride, handling, weight, braking and shifting performance made it much more enjoyable to ride than the ~$80 hardware store "10-speed" it replaced. That series was robotically fillet brazed and successfully sold in good volume at $199 to $259 - a price where European lugged frames were prohibitively expensive at the time. (Production later moved to ProCycle Canada) These are sought out by the thrift store cognoscenti. Their unfiled joints don't look all that sharp but since Peugeot used a heavier down tube and a much lighter top tube , combined with a classic geometry, the handling and 'road feel' are exceptional. A 'category killer' new at $259 and once again among the '$20 used ten speeds'. I do recall the P-8 as the one bicycle I felt confident riding hands off. I also rode it extensively in the snow, on gravel [1], and moderate off-road conditions with no problems. What road bicycles available today provide similar handling and practicality? By practicality, I would include the ability to mount tires of at least 32-mm in width AND fenders. And are any near the inflation adjusted price of the P-8 ($450-500)? [1] On club rides from a few year back, it was a common occurrence for someone on a road bike with skinny tires (25-mm) to flat any time we traversed a section of gravel road. -- Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island |
#76
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"Ryan Cousineau" wrote in message
news:rcousine- Even on packed gravel, I would opt for the slicks over knobbies. About the only urban surface a knobby can traverse that a slick cannot is a muddy slope long enough that you can't just power through by accelerating before you hit the hill. That's a pretty rare thing, even when making shortcuts. Well, there's snow. Not virgin snow that you can slice right through, but somewhat chewed up snow. |
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