Your Bike is Obsolete

On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 5:20:54 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 14 November 2019 19:50:52 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:30:07 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, 14 November 2019 13:49:54 UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/11/pat...train-updates/

Peek into the future, where everything you know is wrong.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Looks like a move to totally proprietary systems with no ability to mix with components from other systems.

I think I'll stick with what i have.

I wonder what bicyclists thought all those years ago when companies went from those big pitch chains to derailleurs or again when companies like Campagnolo dropped their rod shifters from the seat tube? At least those changes were real advances whereas much of what we see here are apparently smaller advances and perhaps not even needed or wanted by consumers.

Cheers

But the "consumers" don't know that they need the new things until
they see them. Remember the days of the "10 speed English Racer"?

Good Lord! Ten speeds? Who could use that many speeds?
Today it is add another speed each year :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

I remember an issue of BICYCLING MAGAZINE that had an article by them t hat 15 gears were totally unnecessary.

Cheers

With a name like "Ridesalot" one would expect you to know that gears of more than 8 cogs requires you to shift several times whenever you're riding over anything more than dead flat terrain. With 8 cogs the spacing was close to ideal. Lance Armstrong wanted an extra climbing gear and that is why Shimano built a 9 speed. Somehow that has caused a change in number of gears every couple of years. This has caused such an increase in the costs of components that it is actually causing a fall in the numbers of sports riders while at the same time commuters and touring cyclists with older style bikes and equipment are going crazy.

This is difficult to see in actual practice since if you go to a Century they are always sold out. But the closing of bicycle shops all over the bay area is a clear sign that manufacturers are killing themselves.

On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 7:55:16 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 14 November 2019 20:39:57 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2019 8:20 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 14 November 2019 19:50:52 UTC-5, John B. wrote:

But the "consumers" don't know that they need the new things until
they see them. Remember the days of the "10 speed English Racer"?

Good Lord! Ten speeds? Who could use that many speeds?
Today it is add another speed each year :-(

I remember an issue of BICYCLING MAGAZINE that had an article by them t hat 15 gears were totally unnecessary.

It might be interesting to watch the hiring process at Buycycling
magazine. From the articles (which I now just skim at a library) I
suspect you don't have to be very technically competent. But you've
certainly got to be passionately in favor of whatever just came onto the
market last month.


--
- Frank Krygowski

It's been quite some time since I bought BICYCLING magazine or any other bicycling magazine for that matter. For Bicycling magazine it's been at least 20 years now.

Cheers

These magazines are now cover to cover advertisements or REALLY stupid article written by "journalists" who race BMX.

On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 08:42:05 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:
On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 7:55:16 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot
wrote:
On Thursday, 14 November 2019 20:39:57 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2019 8:20 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 14 November 2019 19:50:52 UTC-5, John B. wrote:

But the "consumers" don't know that they need the new things
until they see them. Remember the days of the "10 speed English
Racer"?

Good Lord! Ten speeds? Who could use that many speeds? Today it
is add another speed each year :-(

I remember an issue of BICYCLING MAGAZINE that had an article by
them t hat 15 gears were totally unnecessary.

It might be interesting to watch the hiring process at Buycycling
magazine. From the articles (which I now just skim at a library) I
suspect you don't have to be very technically competent. But you've
certainly got to be passionately in favor of whatever just came
onto the market last month.

It's been quite some time since I bought BICYCLING magazine or any
other bicycling magazine for that matter. For Bicycling magazine it's
been at least 20 years now.

These magazines are now cover to cover advertisements or REALLY stupid
article written by "journalists" who race BMX.

Ah, for the days of Owen Mulholland or Frank Berto!

On Saturday, 16 November 2019 19:09:20 UTC-5, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 08:42:05 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:
On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 7:55:16 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot
wrote:
On Thursday, 14 November 2019 20:39:57 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2019 8:20 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 14 November 2019 19:50:52 UTC-5, John B. wrote:

But the "consumers" don't know that they need the new things
until they see them. Remember the days of the "10 speed English
Racer"?

Good Lord! Ten speeds? Who could use that many speeds? Today it
is add another speed each year :-(

I remember an issue of BICYCLING MAGAZINE that had an article by
them t hat 15 gears were totally unnecessary.

It might be interesting to watch the hiring process at Buycycling
magazine. From the articles (which I now just skim at a library) I
suspect you don't have to be very technically competent. But you've
certainly got to be passionately in favor of whatever just came
onto the market last month.

It's been quite some time since I bought BICYCLING magazine or any
other bicycling magazine for that matter. For Bicycling magazine it's
been at least 20 years now.

These magazines are now cover to cover advertisements or REALLY stupid
article written by "journalists" who race BMX.

Ah, for the days of Owen Mulholland or Frank Berto!

And Carl Fogel who used to frequent this newsgroup.

Cheers

On Saturday, November 16, 2019 at 7:09:20 PM UTC-5, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 08:42:05 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:
On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 7:55:16 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot
wrote:
On Thursday, 14 November 2019 20:39:57 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2019 8:20 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 14 November 2019 19:50:52 UTC-5, John B. wrote:

But the "consumers" don't know that they need the new things
until they see them. Remember the days of the "10 speed English
Racer"?

Good Lord! Ten speeds? Who could use that many speeds? Today it
is add another speed each year :-(

I remember an issue of BICYCLING MAGAZINE that had an article by
them t hat 15 gears were totally unnecessary.

It might be interesting to watch the hiring process at Buycycling
magazine. From the articles (which I now just skim at a library) I
suspect you don't have to be very technically competent. But you've
certainly got to be passionately in favor of whatever just came
onto the market last month.

It's been quite some time since I bought BICYCLING magazine or any
other bicycling magazine for that matter. For Bicycling magazine it's
been at least 20 years now.

These magazines are now cover to cover advertisements or REALLY stupid
article written by "journalists" who race BMX.

Ah, for the days of Owen Mulholland or Frank Berto!

Yes! And I remember Fred DeLong, too.

- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:49:49 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/11/pat...train-updates/
Peek into the future, where everything you know is wrong.

Fig 21 has an interesting typo. It says "Olein Acid" instead of
"Oleic Acid". The graph suggest it to have a very low coefficient of
friction. I've never tried Oleic Acid on a bicycle, which is food
safe, listed as a bio lubricant and used as a base for many greases:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=oleic+acid
(Yet another project).

I once was involved in a product design, not related to bicycling. The
new and improved model was designed specifically to prevent owners of
previous models from using parts and accessories on the latest models.
They were expected to buy everything new for the privilege of owning
the latest model. However, it was known that there was a substantial
number of "modders" who would modify the old parts and accessories to
work with newer models. This couldn't easily be prevented, so it was
decided to also change the color scheme so that a combination of old
and new colors would not color match very well and look rather
atrocious. It seemed to work.

Given the opportunity, I'm fairly sure the bicycle manufacturers would
change the Schrader or Presta valve stems in some way that buyers of a
new bicycle would also need to buy new tubes, rim, and pump. Short or
flush valve stems anyone (to reduce rotating mass)?

I still have a rubber stamp with "Change Everything". It was giving
to me by the drafting department at a former employer for constantly
making changes. It seems quite prophetic today.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 11:11:25 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:49:49 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

I once was involved in a product design, not related to bicycling. The
new and improved model was designed specifically to prevent owners of
previous models from using parts and accessories on the latest models.
They were expected to buy everything new for the privilege of owning
the latest model. However, it was known that there was a substantial
number of "modders" who would modify the old parts and accessories to
work with newer models. This couldn't easily be prevented, so it was
decided to also change the color scheme so that a combination of old
and new colors would not color match very well and look rather
atrocious. It seemed to work.

Given the opportunity, I'm fairly sure the bicycle manufacturers would
change the Schrader or Presta valve stems in some way that buyers of a
new bicycle would also need to buy new tubes, rim, and pump. Short or
flush valve stems anyone (to reduce rotating mass)?

Planned obsolescence, a cornerstone of selling new products since at
least the Industrial Revolution and probably before that.

I had a custom frame built a couple of years ago with friction downtube
shifters, old Suntour derailleurs and 8 speed cassettes. Thank heavens
that there are still some parts available, but eventually I will have to
stock up with enough cassettes to see me out... just turned 60, hoping
to have at least another 30 years to ride. Got another bike that uses 7
speed freewheels. Once the frames wear out I'll update- they'll
probbaly be getting soft soon, right? ;-)

On Sunday, 17 November 2019 21:19:59 UTC-5, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 11:11:25 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:49:49 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

I once was involved in a product design, not related to bicycling. The
new and improved model was designed specifically to prevent owners of
previous models from using parts and accessories on the latest models.
They were expected to buy everything new for the privilege of owning
the latest model. However, it was known that there was a substantial
number of "modders" who would modify the old parts and accessories to
work with newer models. This couldn't easily be prevented, so it was
decided to also change the color scheme so that a combination of old
and new colors would not color match very well and look rather
atrocious. It seemed to work.

Given the opportunity, I'm fairly sure the bicycle manufacturers would
change the Schrader or Presta valve stems in some way that buyers of a
new bicycle would also need to buy new tubes, rim, and pump. Short or
flush valve stems anyone (to reduce rotating mass)?

Planned obsolescence, a cornerstone of selling new products since at
least the Industrial Revolution and probably before that.

I had a custom frame built a couple of years ago with friction downtube
shifters, old Suntour derailleurs and 8 speed cassettes. Thank heavens
that there are still some parts available, but eventually I will have to
stock up with enough cassettes to see me out... just turned 60, hoping
to have at least another 30 years to ride. Got another bike that uses 7
speed freewheels. Once the frames wear out I'll update- they'll
probbaly be getting soft soon, right? ;-)

I was quite fortunate a few years ago to come across a decent but old bicycle shop out in the country. When I went in to see what all they had I was able to purchase a number of NOS Uniglide cassettes at $5.00 Canadian each, some Dura Ace AX brake pads at $2.50 Canadian per pair and a number of other NOS vintage parts such as gum hoods for Shimano non-aero 600 brake levers..

I'm 68 now and I feel I have enough stuff to keep my Uniglide equipped bicycles going even after I go to the Great Bicycling Paradise in the Sky.

Cheers

On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 20:19:53 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 11:11:25 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:49:49 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

I once was involved in a product design, not related to bicycling. The
new and improved model was designed specifically to prevent owners of
previous models from using parts and accessories on the latest models.
They were expected to buy everything new for the privilege of owning
the latest model. However, it was known that there was a substantial
number of "modders" who would modify the old parts and accessories to
work with newer models. This couldn't easily be prevented, so it was
decided to also change the color scheme so that a combination of old
and new colors would not color match very well and look rather
atrocious. It seemed to work.

Given the opportunity, I'm fairly sure the bicycle manufacturers would
change the Schrader or Presta valve stems in some way that buyers of a
new bicycle would also need to buy new tubes, rim, and pump. Short or
flush valve stems anyone (to reduce rotating mass)?

Planned obsolescence, a cornerstone of selling new products since at
least the Industrial Revolution and probably before that.

I had a custom frame built a couple of years ago with friction downtube
shifters, old Suntour derailleurs and 8 speed cassettes. Thank heavens
that there are still some parts available, but eventually I will have to
stock up with enough cassettes to see me out... just turned 60, hoping
to have at least another 30 years to ride. Got another bike that uses 7
speed freewheels. Once the frames wear out I'll update- they'll
probbaly be getting soft soon, right? ;-)

Of course. Everyone knows that steel breaks easily, is subject to
deterioration in sunlight and has a short service life. Best to get
rid of that old junk and buy a proper plastic bicycle.

--
cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, November 17, 2019 at 6:19:59 PM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 11:11:25 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:49:49 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

I once was involved in a product design, not related to bicycling. The
new and improved model was designed specifically to prevent owners of
previous models from using parts and accessories on the latest models.
They were expected to buy everything new for the privilege of owning
the latest model. However, it was known that there was a substantial
number of "modders" who would modify the old parts and accessories to
work with newer models. This couldn't easily be prevented, so it was
decided to also change the color scheme so that a combination of old
and new colors would not color match very well and look rather
atrocious. It seemed to work.

Given the opportunity, I'm fairly sure the bicycle manufacturers would
change the Schrader or Presta valve stems in some way that buyers of a
new bicycle would also need to buy new tubes, rim, and pump. Short or
flush valve stems anyone (to reduce rotating mass)?

Planned obsolescence, a cornerstone of selling new products since at
least the Industrial Revolution and probably before that.

Rapid product cycles are deemed necessary to sell bikes. Sales are in the toilet from what I've been told. Ebikes are being teed-up as the great savior because even sexed-up, 12sp Di2 with discs and the latest shiny things are not selling. Maybe going backwards speed-wise would sell. Like LPs and Trilby hats for the hipsters. Go back to five speed Schwinn Varsities.

I was riding yesterday with my bike industry friend, and he was telling me about one odd effect of the tariffs -- Light and Motion is moving its production out of the US to, I think, Thailand because L&M mostly assembles Chinese parts. Domestic assembly does not make a product USian for tariff purposes. It's still deemed Chinese. If The Thais put it together and add value somehow, then it is not Chinese. So whatever goodness was added with US assembly of L&M products, that's now gone.

-- Jay Beattie.