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3ttt new crank process



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 7th 19, 12:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default 3ttt new crank process

On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 1:28:54 PM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 04:07:23 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 08:03:46 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/29/2019 11:44 PM, Chalo wrote:
I notice they have specified a perverse hole pattern. No one's
interest is served that way. Not even the manufacturer's, because
smart and experienced cyclists will avoid it.


It's the way of the world now, when a 22 year old with a CadCam
software can displace an experienced engineer. Hell, we just changed
a worn 53t 2009 Campagnolo chainring on a Record carbon crank which
entailed _both_ chainrings _and_ the bolt set for the 2011 style
which are available, the 2009 being incompatible and unavailable. And
Campagnolo is not the worst of it.


Thank goodness I have four sets of TA cranks and over a dozen unused
chain rings. Those should see me out.


I'm still using my Ritchey Logic 110 mm cranks on almost all my bikes.
Ought to be rings available for those for a long time.

And, LOL, 8sp Shimano cassettes. Seems like the dark ages now, what
with 11sp being de rigeur, except for one bike with a 7sp
freewheel which I guess is the darker ages. But it's a 135 mm OLN and
thus has almost zero dish- same spokes since 1996 with no breakages so
far. Sooner or later...

Not a "disc" brake in sight in my house (except that rim brakes are disc
brakes). One bike with brifters. No CFRP, no AL or Ti frames. All
Brooks saddles of one sort or another. Tan wall tires, polished rims.

I'm not keeping up with the times, I guess. What a Luddite! But hey, I
do have one of those fancy newfangled ISIS BBs on one of my bikes.
Wait, those are 15-20 years old too...


ISIS sucks. I went through ISIS BBs like Kleenex. I was happy when the crank broke, and I was rid of it.

My only old bike is '69 Raleigh Pro track bike -- all NR components with wheels I built back in the '70s. Its now my roller bike.

My fleet of four road/gravel bikes is relatively new because of breakage or theft. All discs except one. Three STI, one Di2. No leather saddles, which I never liked. One aluminum and three CF frames. Each one loved and cherished.

I do regret upgrading my commuter, but I sort of had no choice. It's a warranty replacement frame (CAADX) designed for hydraulics, and the cable brakes didn't work well because of cable routing and housing friction. Upgrading to hydraulics meant going with 11sp. 11sp chains and cassettes wear too quickly. It's nice having all the gears, though -- but certainly not necessary.

I also miss not having a through-hole in the crown of my commuter, and I miss the threaded BB. The CAADX frame came with BB30 and a CF disc fork with no through hole or front threaded boss for my dyno light -- just a threaded boss in the back. I might drill one -- its an aluminum steerer, so I know there is metal in there somewhere!

One good thing about discs (besides stopping well) is that I can use giant tires -- like 35mm studs on my commuter with fenders, assuming it snows. Discs are a plus for me.

-- Jay Beattie.
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  #12  
Old December 7th 19, 01:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default 3ttt new crank process

On 12/6/2019 6:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 1:28:54 PM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 04:07:23 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 08:03:46 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/29/2019 11:44 PM, Chalo wrote:
I notice they have specified a perverse hole pattern. No one's
interest is served that way. Not even the manufacturer's, because
smart and experienced cyclists will avoid it.


It's the way of the world now, when a 22 year old with a CadCam
software can displace an experienced engineer. Hell, we just changed
a worn 53t 2009 Campagnolo chainring on a Record carbon crank which
entailed _both_ chainrings _and_ the bolt set for the 2011 style
which are available, the 2009 being incompatible and unavailable. And
Campagnolo is not the worst of it.

Thank goodness I have four sets of TA cranks and over a dozen unused
chain rings. Those should see me out.


I'm still using my Ritchey Logic 110 mm cranks on almost all my bikes.
Ought to be rings available for those for a long time.

And, LOL, 8sp Shimano cassettes. Seems like the dark ages now, what
with 11sp being de rigeur, except for one bike with a 7sp
freewheel which I guess is the darker ages. But it's a 135 mm OLN and
thus has almost zero dish- same spokes since 1996 with no breakages so
far. Sooner or later...

Not a "disc" brake in sight in my house (except that rim brakes are disc
brakes). One bike with brifters. No CFRP, no AL or Ti frames. All
Brooks saddles of one sort or another. Tan wall tires, polished rims.

I'm not keeping up with the times, I guess. What a Luddite! But hey, I
do have one of those fancy newfangled ISIS BBs on one of my bikes.
Wait, those are 15-20 years old too...


ISIS sucks. I went through ISIS BBs like Kleenex. I was happy when the crank broke, and I was rid of it.

My only old bike is '69 Raleigh Pro track bike -- all NR components with wheels I built back in the '70s. Its now my roller bike.


I wonder how many here still ride rollers?

I built our set and rode them, but never liked the experience. My wife
actually rode them much, much more than I ever did.

Last year I switched to a wind trainer (gift from a friend) hoping it
would allow reading or something, and thus be less excruciatingly
boring. As I've mentioned, that failed.


My fleet of four road/gravel bikes is relatively new because of breakage or theft. All discs except one. Three STI, one Di2. No leather saddles, which I never liked.


I too never liked leather saddles despite years of trying. My only
leather saddle now is a Brooks B-72 on my 3 speed, left over when my
wife changed to synthetic saddles.

I do regret upgrading my commuter, but I sort of had no choice. It's a warranty replacement frame (CAADX) designed for hydraulics, and the cable brakes didn't work well because of cable routing and housing friction. Upgrading to hydraulics meant going with 11sp. 11sp chains and cassettes wear too quickly. It's nice having all the gears, though -- but certainly not necessary.


That's good evidence for choices driven by the manufacturer's fashion
choice.

I also miss not having a through-hole in the crown of my commuter, and I miss the threaded BB. The CAADX frame came with BB30 and a CF disc fork with no through hole or front threaded boss for my dyno light -- just a threaded boss in the back. I might drill one -- its an aluminum steerer, so I know there is metal in there somewhere!


Don't you need a complete machine shop to drill a hole? ;-)

One good thing about discs (besides stopping well) is that I can use giant tires -- like 35mm studs on my commuter with fenders, assuming it snows. Discs are a plus for me.


I had 37s plus fenders on my touring bike for a while. Cantilever
brakes. No problem except too tight clearance between the chainstays.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #13  
Old December 7th 19, 02:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default 3ttt new crank process

On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 4:35:53 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/6/2019 6:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 1:28:54 PM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 04:07:23 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 08:03:46 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/29/2019 11:44 PM, Chalo wrote:
I notice they have specified a perverse hole pattern. No one's
interest is served that way. Not even the manufacturer's, because
smart and experienced cyclists will avoid it.


It's the way of the world now, when a 22 year old with a CadCam
software can displace an experienced engineer. Hell, we just changed
a worn 53t 2009 Campagnolo chainring on a Record carbon crank which
entailed _both_ chainrings _and_ the bolt set for the 2011 style
which are available, the 2009 being incompatible and unavailable. And
Campagnolo is not the worst of it.

Thank goodness I have four sets of TA cranks and over a dozen unused
chain rings. Those should see me out.

I'm still using my Ritchey Logic 110 mm cranks on almost all my bikes.
Ought to be rings available for those for a long time.

And, LOL, 8sp Shimano cassettes. Seems like the dark ages now, what
with 11sp being de rigeur, except for one bike with a 7sp
freewheel which I guess is the darker ages. But it's a 135 mm OLN and
thus has almost zero dish- same spokes since 1996 with no breakages so
far. Sooner or later...

Not a "disc" brake in sight in my house (except that rim brakes are disc
brakes). One bike with brifters. No CFRP, no AL or Ti frames. All
Brooks saddles of one sort or another. Tan wall tires, polished rims.

I'm not keeping up with the times, I guess. What a Luddite! But hey, I
do have one of those fancy newfangled ISIS BBs on one of my bikes.
Wait, those are 15-20 years old too...


ISIS sucks. I went through ISIS BBs like Kleenex. I was happy when the crank broke, and I was rid of it.

My only old bike is '69 Raleigh Pro track bike -- all NR components with wheels I built back in the '70s. Its now my roller bike.


I wonder how many here still ride rollers?

I built our set and rode them, but never liked the experience. My wife
actually rode them much, much more than I ever did.

Last year I switched to a wind trainer (gift from a friend) hoping it
would allow reading or something, and thus be less excruciatingly
boring. As I've mentioned, that failed.


My fleet of four road/gravel bikes is relatively new because of breakage or theft. All discs except one. Three STI, one Di2. No leather saddles, which I never liked.


I too never liked leather saddles despite years of trying. My only
leather saddle now is a Brooks B-72 on my 3 speed, left over when my
wife changed to synthetic saddles.

I do regret upgrading my commuter, but I sort of had no choice. It's a warranty replacement frame (CAADX) designed for hydraulics, and the cable brakes didn't work well because of cable routing and housing friction. Upgrading to hydraulics meant going with 11sp. 11sp chains and cassettes wear too quickly. It's nice having all the gears, though -- but certainly not necessary.


That's good evidence for choices driven by the manufacturer's fashion
choice.

I also miss not having a through-hole in the crown of my commuter, and I miss the threaded BB. The CAADX frame came with BB30 and a CF disc fork with no through hole or front threaded boss for my dyno light -- just a threaded boss in the back. I might drill one -- its an aluminum steerer, so I know there is metal in there somewhere!


Don't you need a complete machine shop to drill a hole? ;-)

One good thing about discs (besides stopping well) is that I can use giant tires -- like 35mm studs on my commuter with fenders, assuming it snows.. Discs are a plus for me.


I had 37s plus fenders on my touring bike for a while. Cantilever
brakes. No problem except too tight clearance between the chainstays.


On your Cannondale? My 1987 T1000 didn't have that kind of clearance with fenders. In fact, it was sold with 27" wheels, which I later changed to 700C, which made the brake fit bad, so I swapped in a different fork. Anyway, with OE forks 27x 1 1/4 were tight with fenders. http://vintagecannondale.com/year/1987/1987.pdf Scroll to p. 17 and look at the fit. I think subsequent versions had better clearance and were spec'd with 700C. That Brooks saddle got wet and fuzzy with mold, and it ultimately went on the back of the tandem. My wife liked it for some reason. I really liked the American Classic post. You didn't lose your adjustment when you loosed the seat clamp as with the crop of one-bolt designs in the '80s (and now).

-- Jay Beattie.





  #14  
Old December 7th 19, 03:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default 3ttt new crank process

On 12/6/2019 5:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 1:28:54 PM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 04:07:23 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 08:03:46 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/29/2019 11:44 PM, Chalo wrote:
I notice they have specified a perverse hole pattern. No one's
interest is served that way. Not even the manufacturer's, because
smart and experienced cyclists will avoid it.


It's the way of the world now, when a 22 year old with a CadCam
software can displace an experienced engineer. Hell, we just changed
a worn 53t 2009 Campagnolo chainring on a Record carbon crank which
entailed _both_ chainrings _and_ the bolt set for the 2011 style
which are available, the 2009 being incompatible and unavailable. And
Campagnolo is not the worst of it.

Thank goodness I have four sets of TA cranks and over a dozen unused
chain rings. Those should see me out.


I'm still using my Ritchey Logic 110 mm cranks on almost all my bikes.
Ought to be rings available for those for a long time.

And, LOL, 8sp Shimano cassettes. Seems like the dark ages now, what
with 11sp being de rigeur, except for one bike with a 7sp
freewheel which I guess is the darker ages. But it's a 135 mm OLN and
thus has almost zero dish- same spokes since 1996 with no breakages so
far. Sooner or later...

Not a "disc" brake in sight in my house (except that rim brakes are disc
brakes). One bike with brifters. No CFRP, no AL or Ti frames. All
Brooks saddles of one sort or another. Tan wall tires, polished rims.

I'm not keeping up with the times, I guess. What a Luddite! But hey, I
do have one of those fancy newfangled ISIS BBs on one of my bikes.
Wait, those are 15-20 years old too...


ISIS sucks. I went through ISIS BBs like Kleenex. I was happy when the crank broke, and I was rid of it.

My only old bike is '69 Raleigh Pro track bike -- all NR components with wheels I built back in the '70s. Its now my roller bike.

My fleet of four road/gravel bikes is relatively new because of breakage or theft. All discs except one. Three STI, one Di2. No leather saddles, which I never liked. One aluminum and three CF frames. Each one loved and cherished.

I do regret upgrading my commuter, but I sort of had no choice. It's a warranty replacement frame (CAADX) designed for hydraulics, and the cable brakes didn't work well because of cable routing and housing friction. Upgrading to hydraulics meant going with 11sp. 11sp chains and cassettes wear too quickly. It's nice having all the gears, though -- but certainly not necessary.

I also miss not having a through-hole in the crown of my commuter, and I miss the threaded BB. The CAADX frame came with BB30 and a CF disc fork with no through hole or front threaded boss for my dyno light -- just a threaded boss in the back. I might drill one -- its an aluminum steerer, so I know there is metal in there somewhere!

One good thing about discs (besides stopping well) is that I can use giant tires -- like 35mm studs on my commuter with fenders, assuming it snows. Discs are a plus for me.

-- Jay Beattie.


And then there's pilot meatware, an essential component of
bike control.

This came to me today from Evanston IL as part of a longer
email. His Eastman is a Raleigh Dl-1 Roadster clone modified
with cantilevers and 700-40 Michelins on aluminum rims:

" Interesting mechanical story for you. Was out riding the
Eastman with a friend. He was on his 15 pound BMC with Dura
Ace hydro discs. It was wet, puddles, rain had stopped but
misty. Rims completely wet. We're chatting away and were
inattentive. Coming up to a T-intersection and planning on a
left. Visibility to the right is badly obstructed. It's a
20mph speed zone but with school, park, train station, old
folks home, shopping, traffic is normally quite slow. Except
when someone is coming through at 40mph. So full panic
braking. Which I had not done on the Eastman in all the 15
years I've had it. Brakes grabbed immediately in the wet. No
excitement at all.

" My friend had a harder time. His back tire slipped and
came around. Car was gone by time he was stable. Way too
close. He was doing a lot of things right. 28mm GP5000 at
70psi. Not sitting as low as I would prefer but lower than
the guys he rides with. Jerry is late 50s and is still in
the 40mph sprint group every Sunday. Ten years ago he was
driving the train, now he's wheelsucking, but he does it.
One thing surprised me. He did not slide off saddle to rear,
did not weight back wheel. Had never even heard of that.
He's a flatlander like me but has probably visited the
mountains more than I have. He just never learned to do
that. Even with 66 degree seat angle I was off the saddle
and back. "

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #15  
Old December 7th 19, 04:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default 3ttt new crank process

On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 8:27:10 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 4:35:53 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/6/2019 6:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:

One good thing about discs (besides stopping well) is that I can use giant tires -- like 35mm studs on my commuter with fenders, assuming it snows. Discs are a plus for me.


I had 37s plus fenders on my touring bike for a while. Cantilever
brakes. No problem except too tight clearance between the chainstays.


On your Cannondale? My 1987 T1000 didn't have that kind of clearance with fenders. In fact, it was sold with 27" wheels, which I later changed to 700C, which made the brake fit bad, so I swapped in a different fork. Anyway, with OE forks 27x 1 1/4 were tight with fenders. http://vintagecannondale.com/year/1987/1987.pdf Scroll to p. 17 and look at the fit. I think subsequent versions had better clearance and were spec'd with 700C. That Brooks saddle got wet and fuzzy with mold, and it ultimately went on the back of the tandem. My wife liked it for some reason. I really liked the American Classic post. You didn't lose your adjustment when you loosed the seat clamp as with the crop of one-bolt designs in the '80s (and now).


Yes, for a few hundred miles I had 37s with fenders on the Cannondale, a 1986
T-800 (I think that's its model name. It was the top of their touring line back
then.)

The bike came with 27", as touring bikes did back then. Before we rode coast to
coast, I changed to 700C, mostly because of the wider choice of tires. And I
put 37mm Conti Top Touring on my bike because I'd be heavily loaded plus riding
the C&O Towpath Trail between DC and Cumberland MD. That's not a bike path, it's
a mule path, mostly completely unimproved from the days mules towed barges. My
wife's bike is identical, but I put 32s on hers instead of 37s. She carried much
less load than I did.

Clearance for 37s was very tight between the chainstays, a bit less than 1/4"
on each side, IIRC. I remember looking long and hard at that and deciding it
would work.

Well, it did work from Delaware to western PA, but maybe 50 miles from home I
started hearing scraping noises. The tires had actually grown in width. I had
much less clearance than before, maybe just a couple millimeters. I had to fuss
around to minimize the scraping, but because of vertical dropouts, I couldn't
do much. I put up with it until I got home.

And it wasn't the rims or spokes; definitely the tires. That was in the era when
that tire model was having problems with sidewalls failing. (I'd read that the
problem had been solved, but it wasn't.) I don't know if that's what caused
the growth, or if tires under heavy loads on very bumpy surfaces normally grow
a bit. I suspect the former.

Our route passed through our home maybe two weeks after we started. I removed
the 37s and installed 32s, which I used for the rest of the trip. Those did
have sidewall bubbles way out west. I managed that by reinforcing the inside
of the tire and/or the inner tube with duct tape.

But like most people touring in those days, I used cantilever brakes and had
no problems.

- Frank Krygowski

  #16  
Old December 7th 19, 04:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default 3ttt new crank process

On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 6:13:31 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/6/2019 5:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 1:28:54 PM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 04:07:23 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 08:03:46 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/29/2019 11:44 PM, Chalo wrote:
I notice they have specified a perverse hole pattern. No one's
interest is served that way. Not even the manufacturer's, because
smart and experienced cyclists will avoid it.


It's the way of the world now, when a 22 year old with a CadCam
software can displace an experienced engineer. Hell, we just changed
a worn 53t 2009 Campagnolo chainring on a Record carbon crank which
entailed _both_ chainrings _and_ the bolt set for the 2011 style
which are available, the 2009 being incompatible and unavailable. And
Campagnolo is not the worst of it.

Thank goodness I have four sets of TA cranks and over a dozen unused
chain rings. Those should see me out.

I'm still using my Ritchey Logic 110 mm cranks on almost all my bikes.
Ought to be rings available for those for a long time.

And, LOL, 8sp Shimano cassettes. Seems like the dark ages now, what
with 11sp being de rigeur, except for one bike with a 7sp
freewheel which I guess is the darker ages. But it's a 135 mm OLN and
thus has almost zero dish- same spokes since 1996 with no breakages so
far. Sooner or later...

Not a "disc" brake in sight in my house (except that rim brakes are disc
brakes). One bike with brifters. No CFRP, no AL or Ti frames. All
Brooks saddles of one sort or another. Tan wall tires, polished rims.

I'm not keeping up with the times, I guess. What a Luddite! But hey, I
do have one of those fancy newfangled ISIS BBs on one of my bikes.
Wait, those are 15-20 years old too...


ISIS sucks. I went through ISIS BBs like Kleenex. I was happy when the crank broke, and I was rid of it.

My only old bike is '69 Raleigh Pro track bike -- all NR components with wheels I built back in the '70s. Its now my roller bike.

My fleet of four road/gravel bikes is relatively new because of breakage or theft. All discs except one. Three STI, one Di2. No leather saddles, which I never liked. One aluminum and three CF frames. Each one loved and cherished.

I do regret upgrading my commuter, but I sort of had no choice. It's a warranty replacement frame (CAADX) designed for hydraulics, and the cable brakes didn't work well because of cable routing and housing friction. Upgrading to hydraulics meant going with 11sp. 11sp chains and cassettes wear too quickly. It's nice having all the gears, though -- but certainly not necessary.

I also miss not having a through-hole in the crown of my commuter, and I miss the threaded BB. The CAADX frame came with BB30 and a CF disc fork with no through hole or front threaded boss for my dyno light -- just a threaded boss in the back. I might drill one -- its an aluminum steerer, so I know there is metal in there somewhere!

One good thing about discs (besides stopping well) is that I can use giant tires -- like 35mm studs on my commuter with fenders, assuming it snows.. Discs are a plus for me.

-- Jay Beattie.


And then there's pilot meatware, an essential component of
bike control.

This came to me today from Evanston IL as part of a longer
email. His Eastman is a Raleigh Dl-1 Roadster clone modified
with cantilevers and 700-40 Michelins on aluminum rims:

" Interesting mechanical story for you. Was out riding the
Eastman with a friend. He was on his 15 pound BMC with Dura
Ace hydro discs. It was wet, puddles, rain had stopped but
misty. Rims completely wet. We're chatting away and were
inattentive. Coming up to a T-intersection and planning on a
left. Visibility to the right is badly obstructed. It's a
20mph speed zone but with school, park, train station, old
folks home, shopping, traffic is normally quite slow. Except
when someone is coming through at 40mph. So full panic
braking. Which I had not done on the Eastman in all the 15
years I've had it. Brakes grabbed immediately in the wet. No
excitement at all.

" My friend had a harder time. His back tire slipped and
came around. Car was gone by time he was stable. Way too
close. He was doing a lot of things right. 28mm GP5000 at
70psi. Not sitting as low as I would prefer but lower than
the guys he rides with. Jerry is late 50s and is still in
the 40mph sprint group every Sunday. Ten years ago he was
driving the train, now he's wheelsucking, but he does it.
One thing surprised me. He did not slide off saddle to rear,
did not weight back wheel. Had never even heard of that.
He's a flatlander like me but has probably visited the
mountains more than I have. He just never learned to do
that. Even with 66 degree seat angle I was off the saddle
and back. "


Moving weight back is not magic or special knowledge for an experienced cyclists. I'm suspicious of the stories about the guy who is the Cat 2 quality rider who doesn't know about getting his or her weight back to panic stop.. It's always some story of a guy on 40mm tires schooling the guy on the 15lb bike.

One part of the story that does resonate is skidding the rear wheel. A rear hydro-disc has far more rear braking power than calipers or cable discs. It takes a few rides before you learn not to be ham-handed. I fish-tailed a few times when I was getting the hang of it. Rear brakes tend to be squishy, and you don't get that with hydro discs.

-- Jay Beattie.



  #17  
Old December 7th 19, 05:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default 3ttt new crank process

On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 10:57:28 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 6:13:31 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/6/2019 5:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 1:28:54 PM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 04:07:23 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 08:03:46 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/29/2019 11:44 PM, Chalo wrote:
I notice they have specified a perverse hole pattern. No one's
interest is served that way. Not even the manufacturer's, because
smart and experienced cyclists will avoid it.


It's the way of the world now, when a 22 year old with a CadCam
software can displace an experienced engineer. Hell, we just changed
a worn 53t 2009 Campagnolo chainring on a Record carbon crank which
entailed _both_ chainrings _and_ the bolt set for the 2011 style
which are available, the 2009 being incompatible and unavailable. And
Campagnolo is not the worst of it.

Thank goodness I have four sets of TA cranks and over a dozen unused
chain rings. Those should see me out.

I'm still using my Ritchey Logic 110 mm cranks on almost all my bikes.
Ought to be rings available for those for a long time.

And, LOL, 8sp Shimano cassettes. Seems like the dark ages now, what
with 11sp being de rigeur, except for one bike with a 7sp
freewheel which I guess is the darker ages. But it's a 135 mm OLN and
thus has almost zero dish- same spokes since 1996 with no breakages so
far. Sooner or later...

Not a "disc" brake in sight in my house (except that rim brakes are disc
brakes). One bike with brifters. No CFRP, no AL or Ti frames. All
Brooks saddles of one sort or another. Tan wall tires, polished rims.

I'm not keeping up with the times, I guess. What a Luddite! But hey, I
do have one of those fancy newfangled ISIS BBs on one of my bikes.
Wait, those are 15-20 years old too...

ISIS sucks. I went through ISIS BBs like Kleenex. I was happy when the crank broke, and I was rid of it.

My only old bike is '69 Raleigh Pro track bike -- all NR components with wheels I built back in the '70s. Its now my roller bike.

My fleet of four road/gravel bikes is relatively new because of breakage or theft. All discs except one. Three STI, one Di2. No leather saddles, which I never liked. One aluminum and three CF frames. Each one loved and cherished.

I do regret upgrading my commuter, but I sort of had no choice. It's a warranty replacement frame (CAADX) designed for hydraulics, and the cable brakes didn't work well because of cable routing and housing friction. Upgrading to hydraulics meant going with 11sp. 11sp chains and cassettes wear too quickly. It's nice having all the gears, though -- but certainly not necessary.

I also miss not having a through-hole in the crown of my commuter, and I miss the threaded BB. The CAADX frame came with BB30 and a CF disc fork with no through hole or front threaded boss for my dyno light -- just a threaded boss in the back. I might drill one -- its an aluminum steerer, so I know there is metal in there somewhere!

One good thing about discs (besides stopping well) is that I can use giant tires -- like 35mm studs on my commuter with fenders, assuming it snows. Discs are a plus for me.

-- Jay Beattie.


And then there's pilot meatware, an essential component of
bike control.

This came to me today from Evanston IL as part of a longer
email. His Eastman is a Raleigh Dl-1 Roadster clone modified
with cantilevers and 700-40 Michelins on aluminum rims:

" Interesting mechanical story for you. Was out riding the
Eastman with a friend. He was on his 15 pound BMC with Dura
Ace hydro discs. It was wet, puddles, rain had stopped but
misty. Rims completely wet. We're chatting away and were
inattentive. Coming up to a T-intersection and planning on a
left. Visibility to the right is badly obstructed. It's a
20mph speed zone but with school, park, train station, old
folks home, shopping, traffic is normally quite slow. Except
when someone is coming through at 40mph. So full panic
braking. Which I had not done on the Eastman in all the 15
years I've had it. Brakes grabbed immediately in the wet. No
excitement at all.

" My friend had a harder time. His back tire slipped and
came around. Car was gone by time he was stable. Way too
close. He was doing a lot of things right. 28mm GP5000 at
70psi. Not sitting as low as I would prefer but lower than
the guys he rides with. Jerry is late 50s and is still in
the 40mph sprint group every Sunday. Ten years ago he was
driving the train, now he's wheelsucking, but he does it.
One thing surprised me. He did not slide off saddle to rear,
did not weight back wheel. Had never even heard of that.
He's a flatlander like me but has probably visited the
mountains more than I have. He just never learned to do
that. Even with 66 degree seat angle I was off the saddle
and back. "


Moving weight back is not magic or special knowledge for an experienced cyclists. I'm suspicious of the stories about the guy who is the Cat 2 quality rider who doesn't know about getting his or her weight back to panic stop. It's always some story of a guy on 40mm tires schooling the guy on the 15lb bike.

One part of the story that does resonate is skidding the rear wheel. A rear hydro-disc has far more rear braking power than calipers or cable discs. It takes a few rides before you learn not to be ham-handed. I fish-tailed a few times when I was getting the hang of it. Rear brakes tend to be squishy, and you don't get that with hydro discs.


I don't doubt that you get the hang of it in a few rides; but I'd worry about
when it comes up in a panic situation. Will you still have the hang of it when
it's just the lizard part of your brain operating your muscle memory?

- Frank Krygowski

  #18  
Old December 7th 19, 06:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default 3ttt new crank process

On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 8:31:42 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 10:57:28 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 6:13:31 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/6/2019 5:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 1:28:54 PM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 04:07:23 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 08:03:46 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/29/2019 11:44 PM, Chalo wrote:
I notice they have specified a perverse hole pattern. No one's
interest is served that way. Not even the manufacturer's, because
smart and experienced cyclists will avoid it.


It's the way of the world now, when a 22 year old with a CadCam
software can displace an experienced engineer. Hell, we just changed
a worn 53t 2009 Campagnolo chainring on a Record carbon crank which
entailed _both_ chainrings _and_ the bolt set for the 2011 style
which are available, the 2009 being incompatible and unavailable.. And
Campagnolo is not the worst of it.

Thank goodness I have four sets of TA cranks and over a dozen unused
chain rings. Those should see me out.

I'm still using my Ritchey Logic 110 mm cranks on almost all my bikes.
Ought to be rings available for those for a long time.

And, LOL, 8sp Shimano cassettes. Seems like the dark ages now, what
with 11sp being de rigeur, except for one bike with a 7sp
freewheel which I guess is the darker ages. But it's a 135 mm OLN and
thus has almost zero dish- same spokes since 1996 with no breakages so
far. Sooner or later...

Not a "disc" brake in sight in my house (except that rim brakes are disc
brakes). One bike with brifters. No CFRP, no AL or Ti frames. All
Brooks saddles of one sort or another. Tan wall tires, polished rims.

I'm not keeping up with the times, I guess. What a Luddite! But hey, I
do have one of those fancy newfangled ISIS BBs on one of my bikes.
Wait, those are 15-20 years old too...

ISIS sucks. I went through ISIS BBs like Kleenex. I was happy when the crank broke, and I was rid of it.

My only old bike is '69 Raleigh Pro track bike -- all NR components with wheels I built back in the '70s. Its now my roller bike.

My fleet of four road/gravel bikes is relatively new because of breakage or theft. All discs except one. Three STI, one Di2. No leather saddles, which I never liked. One aluminum and three CF frames. Each one loved and cherished.

I do regret upgrading my commuter, but I sort of had no choice. It's a warranty replacement frame (CAADX) designed for hydraulics, and the cable brakes didn't work well because of cable routing and housing friction. Upgrading to hydraulics meant going with 11sp. 11sp chains and cassettes wear too quickly. It's nice having all the gears, though -- but certainly not necessary.

I also miss not having a through-hole in the crown of my commuter, and I miss the threaded BB. The CAADX frame came with BB30 and a CF disc fork with no through hole or front threaded boss for my dyno light -- just a threaded boss in the back. I might drill one -- its an aluminum steerer, so I know there is metal in there somewhere!

One good thing about discs (besides stopping well) is that I can use giant tires -- like 35mm studs on my commuter with fenders, assuming it snows. Discs are a plus for me.

-- Jay Beattie.


And then there's pilot meatware, an essential component of
bike control.

This came to me today from Evanston IL as part of a longer
email. His Eastman is a Raleigh Dl-1 Roadster clone modified
with cantilevers and 700-40 Michelins on aluminum rims:

" Interesting mechanical story for you. Was out riding the
Eastman with a friend. He was on his 15 pound BMC with Dura
Ace hydro discs. It was wet, puddles, rain had stopped but
misty. Rims completely wet. We're chatting away and were
inattentive. Coming up to a T-intersection and planning on a
left. Visibility to the right is badly obstructed. It's a
20mph speed zone but with school, park, train station, old
folks home, shopping, traffic is normally quite slow. Except
when someone is coming through at 40mph. So full panic
braking. Which I had not done on the Eastman in all the 15
years I've had it. Brakes grabbed immediately in the wet. No
excitement at all.

" My friend had a harder time. His back tire slipped and
came around. Car was gone by time he was stable. Way too
close. He was doing a lot of things right. 28mm GP5000 at
70psi. Not sitting as low as I would prefer but lower than
the guys he rides with. Jerry is late 50s and is still in
the 40mph sprint group every Sunday. Ten years ago he was
driving the train, now he's wheelsucking, but he does it.
One thing surprised me. He did not slide off saddle to rear,
did not weight back wheel. Had never even heard of that.
He's a flatlander like me but has probably visited the
mountains more than I have. He just never learned to do
that. Even with 66 degree seat angle I was off the saddle
and back. "


Moving weight back is not magic or special knowledge for an experienced cyclists. I'm suspicious of the stories about the guy who is the Cat 2 quality rider who doesn't know about getting his or her weight back to panic stop. It's always some story of a guy on 40mm tires schooling the guy on the 15lb bike.

One part of the story that does resonate is skidding the rear wheel. A rear hydro-disc has far more rear braking power than calipers or cable discs. It takes a few rides before you learn not to be ham-handed. I fish-tailed a few times when I was getting the hang of it. Rear brakes tend to be squishy, and you don't get that with hydro discs.


I don't doubt that you get the hang of it in a few rides; but I'd worry about
when it comes up in a panic situation. Will you still have the hang of it when
it's just the lizard part of your brain operating your muscle memory?

- Frank Krygowski


Yes. I ride hydro discs every day and have no trouble whatsoever. I rode them on ice two days this week and had no problems. Note how fast you adjust to car brakes.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #19  
Old December 7th 19, 07:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default 3ttt new crank process

On Friday, 6 December 2019 23:31:42 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 10:57:28 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 6:13:31 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/6/2019 5:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 1:28:54 PM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 04:07:23 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 08:03:46 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/29/2019 11:44 PM, Chalo wrote:
I notice they have specified a perverse hole pattern. No one's
interest is served that way. Not even the manufacturer's, because
smart and experienced cyclists will avoid it.


It's the way of the world now, when a 22 year old with a CadCam
software can displace an experienced engineer. Hell, we just changed
a worn 53t 2009 Campagnolo chainring on a Record carbon crank which
entailed _both_ chainrings _and_ the bolt set for the 2011 style
which are available, the 2009 being incompatible and unavailable.. And
Campagnolo is not the worst of it.

Thank goodness I have four sets of TA cranks and over a dozen unused
chain rings. Those should see me out.

I'm still using my Ritchey Logic 110 mm cranks on almost all my bikes.
Ought to be rings available for those for a long time.

And, LOL, 8sp Shimano cassettes. Seems like the dark ages now, what
with 11sp being de rigeur, except for one bike with a 7sp
freewheel which I guess is the darker ages. But it's a 135 mm OLN and
thus has almost zero dish- same spokes since 1996 with no breakages so
far. Sooner or later...

Not a "disc" brake in sight in my house (except that rim brakes are disc
brakes). One bike with brifters. No CFRP, no AL or Ti frames. All
Brooks saddles of one sort or another. Tan wall tires, polished rims.

I'm not keeping up with the times, I guess. What a Luddite! But hey, I
do have one of those fancy newfangled ISIS BBs on one of my bikes.
Wait, those are 15-20 years old too...

ISIS sucks. I went through ISIS BBs like Kleenex. I was happy when the crank broke, and I was rid of it.

My only old bike is '69 Raleigh Pro track bike -- all NR components with wheels I built back in the '70s. Its now my roller bike.

My fleet of four road/gravel bikes is relatively new because of breakage or theft. All discs except one. Three STI, one Di2. No leather saddles, which I never liked. One aluminum and three CF frames. Each one loved and cherished.

I do regret upgrading my commuter, but I sort of had no choice. It's a warranty replacement frame (CAADX) designed for hydraulics, and the cable brakes didn't work well because of cable routing and housing friction. Upgrading to hydraulics meant going with 11sp. 11sp chains and cassettes wear too quickly. It's nice having all the gears, though -- but certainly not necessary.

I also miss not having a through-hole in the crown of my commuter, and I miss the threaded BB. The CAADX frame came with BB30 and a CF disc fork with no through hole or front threaded boss for my dyno light -- just a threaded boss in the back. I might drill one -- its an aluminum steerer, so I know there is metal in there somewhere!

One good thing about discs (besides stopping well) is that I can use giant tires -- like 35mm studs on my commuter with fenders, assuming it snows. Discs are a plus for me.

-- Jay Beattie.


And then there's pilot meatware, an essential component of
bike control.

This came to me today from Evanston IL as part of a longer
email. His Eastman is a Raleigh Dl-1 Roadster clone modified
with cantilevers and 700-40 Michelins on aluminum rims:

" Interesting mechanical story for you. Was out riding the
Eastman with a friend. He was on his 15 pound BMC with Dura
Ace hydro discs. It was wet, puddles, rain had stopped but
misty. Rims completely wet. We're chatting away and were
inattentive. Coming up to a T-intersection and planning on a
left. Visibility to the right is badly obstructed. It's a
20mph speed zone but with school, park, train station, old
folks home, shopping, traffic is normally quite slow. Except
when someone is coming through at 40mph. So full panic
braking. Which I had not done on the Eastman in all the 15
years I've had it. Brakes grabbed immediately in the wet. No
excitement at all.

" My friend had a harder time. His back tire slipped and
came around. Car was gone by time he was stable. Way too
close. He was doing a lot of things right. 28mm GP5000 at
70psi. Not sitting as low as I would prefer but lower than
the guys he rides with. Jerry is late 50s and is still in
the 40mph sprint group every Sunday. Ten years ago he was
driving the train, now he's wheelsucking, but he does it.
One thing surprised me. He did not slide off saddle to rear,
did not weight back wheel. Had never even heard of that.
He's a flatlander like me but has probably visited the
mountains more than I have. He just never learned to do
that. Even with 66 degree seat angle I was off the saddle
and back. "


Moving weight back is not magic or special knowledge for an experienced cyclists. I'm suspicious of the stories about the guy who is the Cat 2 quality rider who doesn't know about getting his or her weight back to panic stop. It's always some story of a guy on 40mm tires schooling the guy on the 15lb bike.

One part of the story that does resonate is skidding the rear wheel. A rear hydro-disc has far more rear braking power than calipers or cable discs. It takes a few rides before you learn not to be ham-handed. I fish-tailed a few times when I was getting the hang of it. Rear brakes tend to be squishy, and you don't get that with hydro discs.


I don't doubt that you get the hang of it in a few rides; but I'd worry about
when it comes up in a panic situation. Will you still have the hang of it when
it's just the lizard part of your brain operating your muscle memory?

- Frank Krygowski


No worse than going from single-pivot side-pull brakes to well set up cantilever brakes on a touring bike.

Cheers
  #20  
Old December 7th 19, 07:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,041
Default 3ttt new crank process

On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 6:35:53 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/6/2019 6:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:

My only old bike is '69 Raleigh Pro track bike -- all NR components with wheels I built back in the '70s. Its now my roller bike.


I wonder how many here still ride rollers?
--
- Frank Krygowski


I own a set of Kreitler rollers. They are in the basement. Does that count?
 




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