%$!#-&*@

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:25:47 +1000, flyingdutch
wrote:


Carl Brewer Wrote:

We were working together, believe it or not It didn't pay though,
but without taking risks, there are no rewards!

bwahahahahahahah you had that patented 'trev up the front while Carl
is mid-field' move down pat!

Did you notice the break he was in for about 15 minutes? Let's
say that the break wasn't without allies in the bunch, and leave it at
that. He probably went in a break a bit too early (~20 mins in)
but we thought that with the crosswinds it might have a chance.

No such luck, but worth a try, especially as the
burnley finance boys had shown their hand in the
first 5 minutes and cooked themselves in the process.
Maybe if they'd been a bit smarter (and so had we) we could
have put a few more in the break and had more manpower
in the bunch to assist. Hopefully there'll be no crosswind
this w'end and we'll just run a leadout train at the end,
and try for a different result

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:36:02 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

Carl Brewer wrote:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:51:07 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

Don't the zips make it easier to get into, because you can open it up
more?

With a steamer, yes, they make it *possible* to get into![*] But not
really necessary with a longjohn, except maybe the ankles.

Are steamers the full arm full leg ones and long johns just long legs?
Because most people swim in the full arm full leg ones.

Longjohns are no arms, but a vest and long legs. a steamer is
full arms & legs.

People swim in full arm neoprene?! Even 2mm would have to be
pretty restrictive.

I have found the tri wetsuits really hard to get into because of
how they are designed, but easy to get out of quickly. The tri wetsuits
tear pretty easily if you yank them on because they're thin, so you have
to cinch them on slowly, and work it up your body.

They're unlined?

They are rubbery outside, and normal neoprene inside, and in general
glued on the outside layer, stitching inside. I think.

Ok, unlined. Most diving wetsuits these days have a terry lining of
sorts, which makes ingress and egress a lot easier than getting
stuck on sweaty skin with grippy rubber.

following a program with little if any scope for adaptation to
anything except miscalculating your exertion and the weather?

In all seriousness, how do you cope with the boredom?

I don't find it boring. But then, I've never depended on other people's
actions to keep me entertained. I like spending time with my thoughts. I
think about how my heart and lungs and muscles are doing, how nice a day
it is, how lucky I am to be so damn fit when the spectators are
struggling to walk around, how all the people passing me in the bike leg
are gonna eat my dust once we hit the run, etc.,

So that gets you 30 minutes of entertainment. What song do you
sing to youself for the rest of the race?

other people are boring
when it comes to sport. I think that's why I hate playing team sports.

That's what makes them a challenge - you have to not just
follow your own plan, you have to contend with other people's
plans too. It's a lot of fun playing against live opponents - they
do things you're not expecting, which provides
a more interesting challenge than simply "I'm going to go
faster this time". If that was all there was to sport, I think
I'd rather go fishing.

Not to suggest that it's easy to go faster,
there's a lot ot training and hard work involved. But ... your
brains are using valuable glucose, it seems a shame to carry
them around unless you're going to have to use them for more
than just blind motor-control at threshold.

Our discussion on this is an example - you're not writing an
essay on your own, this is interactive, and we're having to
not only put forward our ideas, but also contend with the
ideas put forward by our discussion-partners. It's a lot
more fun than writing an essay, I think. If you're bored by
this, you're not showing it, as you keep coming back for more

Have you ever asked yourself why it is that you compete in the
sport of your choice? Or why you play a sport at all? It's an
interesting question, and often one
that most of the people I've come across struggle to answer
in any sort of a satisfactory way (satisfactory to
them, that is)..

The only thing that makes up for that boredom is the possibility of
violence.

heh.

Carl Brewer wrote:
So that gets you 30 minutes of entertainment. What song do you
sing to youself for the rest of the race?

Obviously it would be the super annoying one that was on the radio on
race morning that just wont leave your head!

Have you ever asked yourself why it is that you compete in the
sport of your choice? Or why you play a sport at all? It's an
interesting question, and often one
that most of the people I've come across struggle to answer
in any sort of a satisfactory way (satisfactory to
them, that is)..

You asked me this once. I still don't know. Can you answer for me?

The only thing that makes up for that boredom is the possibility of
violence.

heh.

What he said, with another 'e'.

hippy

"Tamyka Bell" wrote in message
...
Carl Brewer wrote:

SNIP

Why not? It's no dumber than riding 180km in bathers and
wet shoes.

MORE SNIPPAGE
I don't put on a good set of
knicks for 40km or less, my race suit has a small inbuilt chamois that
is softer and chafes less than a standard set of knicks anyway (which I
find too bulky, but that's probably a girl thing). For ironman, just
about everyone puts on a good set of knicks. Some people do shorter
stuff in swimsuits. I do shortcourse in just bathers when I'm too lazy
to dig out a race suit. It's not a problem for 20km. I personally find
that all knicks are a bit wide and I end up with chafing from the edges
of the chamois, so I prefer tri shorts/race suit.

STOOPID QUESTION WARNING!

Saddles: Is there a difference between tri saddles and 'normal' ones? Are
Tri saddles designed to be comfier without knicks?
I'm setting up a bike to go touring in and some MTBing Europe in July (roll
on July!!), so if a tri saddle is comfier than others it might be worth
investigating. I've tried various saddles (should put them on eBay...) but
the comfy ones (like the Specialized Milano) are too wide at the back. I've
got a Flite Ti on at the moment (bargain price from Hippy... ta very much!)
but it's numb nuts for me after about 30km. If tri saddles are long and
narrow with more (but supportive) padding, it might be worth looking at...

Toodles,

Me (caffienated at stupid o'clock, ready for work)

Plodder Wrote:

STOOPID QUESTION WARNING!


There are no stoopid questions, only stoopid.... oh never mind

Plodder Wrote:

Saddles: Is there a difference between tri saddles and 'normal' ones
Are
Tri saddles designed to be comfier without knicks?
I'm setting up a bike to go touring in and some MTBing Europe in Jul
(roll
on July!!), so if a tri saddle is comfier than others it might b
worth
investigating. I've tried various saddles (should put them on eBay...
but
the comfy ones (like the Specialized Milano) are too wide at the back
I've
got a Flite Ti on at the moment (bargain price from Hippy... ta ver
much!)
but it's numb nuts for me after about 30km. If tri saddles are lon
and
narrow with more (but supportive) padding, it might be worth lookin
at...

Toodles,

Me (caffienated at stupid o'clock, ready for work)

So youre in Europe in July. you ARE going to see it. right?

if youre gettin numb-nuts, sounds like your
seatangle/position/aspect-to-mecca is wrong!

F"caffienated but resistin the urge to work"Dutc

--
flyingdutch

Plodder wrote:
Saddles: Is there a difference between tri saddles and 'normal' ones? Are
Tri saddles designed to be comfier without knicks?
I'm setting up a bike to go touring in and some MTBing Europe in July (roll
on July!!), so if a tri saddle is comfier than others it might be worth
investigating. I've tried various saddles (should put them on eBay...) but
the comfy ones (like the Specialized Milano) are too wide at the back. I've
got a Flite Ti on at the moment (bargain price from Hippy... ta very much!)
but it's numb nuts for me after about 30km. If tri saddles are long and
narrow with more (but supportive) padding, it might be worth looking at...

The tri-specific saddles I know of are the ones that have a 'super
padded' nose. The basis behind this is, with the steep seattube angle
and the associated TT'ing position, riders are sitting right up onto the
nose of the saddle. So, manufacturers stick extra padding on the saddle
nose.

Google for "Selle San Marco Azoto" which is the saddle I'm thinking of.

It sounds more like you need to adjust your riding position rather than
change saddles. You shouldn't be sitting on the saddle nose when touring
- you want your sit bones (the boney bits of your arse) on the wider
part of the saddle. Try raising bars, shifting saddle height, angle,
fore/aft position etc. Make one change at a time and test it thoroughly.

I googled for you:
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/azoto.shtml

hth
hippy
"Not always off-topic" :P

Carl Brewer wrote:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:36:02 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

Carl Brewer wrote:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:51:07 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

Don't the zips make it easier to get into, because you can open it up
more?

With a steamer, yes, they make it *possible* to get into![*] But not
really necessary with a longjohn, except maybe the ankles.

Are steamers the full arm full leg ones and long johns just long legs?
Because most people swim in the full arm full leg ones.

Longjohns are no arms, but a vest and long legs. a steamer is
full arms & legs.

People swim in full arm neoprene?! Even 2mm would have to be
pretty restrictive.

It's pretty thin in the arms, all you feel is a bit of resistance
putting arms into the water. They're designed to be very hydrodynamic or
something. I've got a guy in Nowra looking for a company to do me a
cheap deal.

I have found the tri wetsuits really hard to get into because of
how they are designed, but easy to get out of quickly. The tri wetsuits
tear pretty easily if you yank them on because they're thin, so you have
to cinch them on slowly, and work it up your body.

They're unlined?

They are rubbery outside, and normal neoprene inside, and in general
glued on the outside layer, stitching inside. I think.

Ok, unlined. Most diving wetsuits these days have a terry lining of
sorts, which makes ingress and egress a lot easier than getting
stuck on sweaty skin with grippy rubber.

Oooh that doesn't sound very hydrodynamic...

following a program with little if any scope for adaptation to
anything except miscalculating your exertion and the weather?

In all seriousness, how do you cope with the boredom?

I don't find it boring. But then, I've never depended on other people's
actions to keep me entertained. I like spending time with my thoughts. I
think about how my heart and lungs and muscles are doing, how nice a day
it is, how lucky I am to be so damn fit when the spectators are
struggling to walk around, how all the people passing me in the bike leg
are gonna eat my dust once we hit the run, etc.,

So that gets you 30 minutes of entertainment. What song do you
sing to youself for the rest of the race?

"And I would run 500 miles and I would run 500 more
just to be the girl who runs a thousand miles to train with sex god
George"

George was one of my boxing coaches. As a punishment, my mate had to
hold a pushup position for 5 minutes. I got punished too. I sang that
over and over and over...

.... it stuck. I forget the real words now.

other people are boring
when it comes to sport. I think that's why I hate playing team sports.

That's what makes them a challenge - you have to not just
follow your own plan, you have to contend with other people's
plans too. It's a lot of fun playing against live opponents - they
do things you're not expecting, which provides
a more interesting challenge than simply "I'm going to go
faster this time". If that was all there was to sport, I think
I'd rather go fishing.

Well, I like laughing at other people... does that count. Also I do
maths when I'm racing.

Not to suggest that it's easy to go faster,
there's a lot ot training and hard work involved. But ... your
brains are using valuable glucose, it seems a shame to carry
them around unless you're going to have to use them for more
than just blind motor-control at threshold.

Our discussion on this is an example - you're not writing an
essay on your own, this is interactive, and we're having to
not only put forward our ideas, but also contend with the
ideas put forward by our discussion-partners. It's a lot
more fun than writing an essay, I think. If you're bored by
this, you're not showing it, as you keep coming back for more

Yeah, but I chat to hippy too. I'm sociable!

Have you ever asked yourself why it is that you compete in the
sport of your choice? Or why you play a sport at all? It's an
interesting question, and often one
that most of the people I've come across struggle to answer
in any sort of a satisfactory way (satisfactory to
them, that is)..

I do it because it's time for me, not for others, because I am a bit of
a loner, and because I like to interact with others by helping them to
achieve their goals rather than by beating them. Which is why I
encourage other people (especially on the run) and why this year I'm a
pace runner for Gold Coast half! (Yay!)

I guess the other thing is that I'm never really motivated to win stuff.
About a year ago I went through a change where I realised I wanted to
enjoy every training session, not just count it as a tick in the box
towards a goal. So now I enjoy every minute of my sport, not just my
racing (or performing, in the case of circus).

snip the rest

Tam

hippy wrote:

Plodder wrote:
Saddles: Is there a difference between tri saddles and 'normal' ones? Are
Tri saddles designed to be comfier without knicks?
I'm setting up a bike to go touring in and some MTBing Europe in July (roll
on July!!), so if a tri saddle is comfier than others it might be worth
investigating. I've tried various saddles (should put them on eBay...) but
the comfy ones (like the Specialized Milano) are too wide at the back. I've
got a Flite Ti on at the moment (bargain price from Hippy... ta very much!)
but it's numb nuts for me after about 30km. If tri saddles are long and
narrow with more (but supportive) padding, it might be worth looking at...

The tri-specific saddles I know of are the ones that have a 'super
padded' nose. The basis behind this is, with the steep seattube angle
and the associated TT'ing position, riders are sitting right up onto the
nose of the saddle. So, manufacturers stick extra padding on the saddle
nose.

Google for "Selle San Marco Azoto" which is the saddle I'm thinking of.

It sounds more like you need to adjust your riding position rather than
change saddles. You shouldn't be sitting on the saddle nose when touring
- you want your sit bones (the boney bits of your arse) on the wider
part of the saddle. Try raising bars, shifting saddle height, angle,
fore/aft position etc. Make one change at a time and test it thoroughly.

I googled for you:
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/azoto.shtml

hth
hippy
"Not always off-topic" :P

Thanks hippy, I didn't know about tri-specific saddles.

Now here's a question: why do we wear cycle knicks with lots of padding
instead of using a seat with more padding?

Tam

On 2005-04-15, Tamyka Bell wrote:
Now here's a question: why do we wear cycle knicks with lots of padding
instead of using a seat with more padding?

Several reasons I can think of.

1) When cycling, we want clothes without seams around our ... ah ...
tender bits. Most clothing we can buy at the shop does not fill
this bill. Knicks do.
2) Given (1), we generally wear knicks, and nothing underneath. It is
strongly desirable, if we want to avoid getting arrested, that the
knicks conceal the bits that are normally concealed in public.
3) Given (2), padding is extremely useful to aid in this concealment.
Especially if the knicks are rather old.
4) Given (3), there's not much point in adding padding to the seat, is
there?

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 at 22:56 GMT, flyingdutch (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
Plodder Wrote:
STOOPID QUESTION WARNING!

There are no stoopid questions, only stoopid.... oh never mind

Yes there a

http://crookedtimber.org/2003/09/18/...upid-questions

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
But if I ever have a child, I will certainly be naming it "Sun
Microsystems". -- Hipatia