%$!#-&*@

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 at 01:34 GMT, Stuart Lamble (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
On 2005-04-15, Tamyka Bell wrote:
Now here's a question: why do we wear cycle knicks with lots of padding
instead of using a seat with more padding?

Several reasons I can think of.

1) When cycling, we want clothes without seams around our ... ah ...
tender bits. Most clothing we can buy at the shop does not fill
this bill. Knicks do.
2) Given (1), we generally wear knicks, and nothing underneath. It is
strongly desirable, if we want to avoid getting arrested, that the
knicks conceal the bits that are normally concealed in public.
3) Given (2), padding is extremely useful to aid in this concealment.
Especially if the knicks are rather old.
4) Given (3), there's not much point in adding padding to the seat, is
there?

Oddly enough, it was described to me by a BS that you in particular
want a good supporting seat (not necessarily padded muchly), and then
you don't need so much padding in the knicks. I got from that
conversation a pair of knicks that were a little cheaper than most of
the other pairs, which I am fine with (although my seat is not really
great for me -- at least I don't get numb nuts anymore).



I rode lastnight to the comedy festival (happy gay robot hour was
greeeat. And I now have a crush on astroboy[1]), and this morning to
the hospital, in normal clothes. And gee, aren't they uncomfy?


[1] Not for teh FNARRing[2]
[2] Hold on, which froup am I on again?

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
White dwarf seeks red giant star for binary relationship

hippy wrote:
Plodder wrote:

Saddles: Is there a difference between tri saddles and 'normal' ones? Are
Tri saddles designed to be comfier without knicks?
I'm setting up a bike to go touring in and some MTBing Europe in July
(roll
on July!!), so if a tri saddle is comfier than others it might be worth
investigating. I've tried various saddles (should put them on eBay...)
but
the comfy ones (like the Specialized Milano) are too wide at the back.
I've
got a Flite Ti on at the moment (bargain price from Hippy... ta very
much!)
but it's numb nuts for me after about 30km. If tri saddles are long and
narrow with more (but supportive) padding, it might be worth looking
at...


The tri-specific saddles I know of are the ones that have a 'super
padded' nose. The basis behind this is, with the steep seattube angle
and the associated TT'ing position, riders are sitting right up onto the
nose of the saddle. So, manufacturers stick extra padding on the saddle
nose.

Google for "Selle San Marco Azoto" which is the saddle I'm thinking of.

It sounds more like you need to adjust your riding position rather than
change saddles. You shouldn't be sitting on the saddle nose when touring
- you want your sit bones (the boney bits of your arse) on the wider
part of the saddle. Try raising bars, shifting saddle height, angle,
fore/aft position etc. Make one change at a time and test it thoroughly.

I googled for you:
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/azoto.shtml

hth
hippy
"Not always off-topic" :P

I've been doing some longish distances in the tri position.I recently
changed to an Azoto seat and I do find it slightly more comfortable than
the other seats I was using, inluding a Flite seat.
In addition to the seat change I also went back to my old nicks. I was
wearing some expensive multi piece chamois nicks but the stitching was
chafing me. The stitching coincided with the edge of the seat. So I
dragged out my older Netti nicks with the one piece chamois and it felt
much better. Earlier with my other seats I had tilted the nose down a
bit as recommended by some people and that made the crutch area feel
better but created problems further back (which was the stuff of
nightmares). Don't tilt the nose down, it's a no no. I also use a nappy
rash cream which is designed to stop rash,it also contains zinc which is
good to heal the skin. I think I've got it sorted now and look foward to
longer distances on the bike. I'm not sure if an Azoto seat would be
good for touring. I imagine the requirements of being in the aero
position are very different to that required for touring.

This morning I paid for my entry to the Busselton Half Ironman, somebody
shoot me!

Marty

Marty wrote:
snip
This morning I paid for my entry to the Busselton Half Ironman, somebody
shoot me!

Marty

*shoots Marty a big thumbs up*

Yay!

Tam

"hippy" wrote in message
. ..

The tri-specific saddles I know of are the ones that have a 'super
padded' nose. The basis behind this is, with the steep seattube angle
and the associated TT'ing position, riders are sitting right up onto the
nose of the saddle. So, manufacturers stick extra padding on the saddle
nose.

Google for "Selle San Marco Azoto" which is the saddle I'm thinking of.

It sounds more like you need to adjust your riding position rather than
change saddles. You shouldn't be sitting on the saddle nose when touring
- you want your sit bones (the boney bits of your arse) on the wider
part of the saddle. Try raising bars, shifting saddle height, angle,
fore/aft position etc. Make one change at a time and test it thoroughly.

I googled for you:
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/azoto.shtml

hth
hippy
"Not always off-topic" :P

Ta for that. It gives me a place to start. My riding has been mainly MTBing,
so my old faithful Flite was comfy over various distances but, with MTBing,
more time is spent out of the saddle. I'll try fiddling with positions a bit
more as you suggest. I've set my touring bike up much as my hardtail MTB, so
that's prolly where the problem is. I do sit fairly high on the saddle, but
if I move it to get my bum on the wide bit it seems to tip my hips forward
too much and my back aches like buggery. Geez, 47 and already an old fart!
Might have to fiddle with other fit bits too.

Once I finished fiddling, if I can't get it right, I'll look more into tri
seats.

Toodles,

Me

"TimC" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 at 01:34 GMT, Stuart Lamble (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
On 2005-04-15, Tamyka Bell wrote:
Now here's a question: why do we wear cycle knicks with lots of padding
instead of using a seat with more padding?

Several reasons I can think of.

1) When cycling, we want clothes without seams around our ... ah ...
tender bits. Most clothing we can buy at the shop does not fill
this bill. Knicks do.
2) Given (1), we generally wear knicks, and nothing underneath. It is
strongly desirable, if we want to avoid getting arrested, that the
knicks conceal the bits that are normally concealed in public.
3) Given (2), padding is extremely useful to aid in this concealment.
Especially if the knicks are rather old.
4) Given (3), there's not much point in adding padding to the seat, is
there?

Oddly enough, it was described to me by a BS that you in particular
want a good supporting seat (not necessarily padded muchly), and then
you don't need so much padding in the knicks. I got from that
conversation a pair of knicks that were a little cheaper than most of
the other pairs, which I am fine with (although my seat is not really
great for me -- at least I don't get numb nuts anymore).



I rode lastnight to the comedy festival (happy gay robot hour was
greeeat. And I now have a crush on astroboy[1]), and this morning to
the hospital, in normal clothes. And gee, aren't they uncomfy?


[1] Not for teh FNARRing[2]
[2] Hold on, which froup am I on again?

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
White dwarf seeks red giant star for binary relationship

Point to consider, perhaps. With padding in the knicks, it's very
specifically placed relative to the aforementioned bits. A padded saddle
only owrks if you place your arse fairly carefully.

"flyingdutch" wrote in
message ...

So youre in Europe in July. you ARE going to see it. right?

Well, bits of it. Venice first (bike ueless there!) for a big festival, then
off to Florence to do the Tuscany thing, then off to Lake Konstanz to follow
the Rhine to Dusseldorf and the Ruhr to Essen where my family is. Then home.
I have 3 months off, so I don't need to rush.

Not sure how long it'll take, but that's the point of touring - no
timetable. I'll stop in at Heidelberg on the way but no plans for anything
else, just take it easy and look-see. No cooking utensils, just cafes, pubs,
occasional B&B etc. I'll be on my own, so dossing out and missing the
occasional meal won't trouble me overmuch. Won't be the first or the last
time.


if youre gettin numb-nuts, sounds like youre
seatangle/position/aspect-to-mecca is wrong!

Sounds like it, eh? I'll start my series of fiddles today.

F"caffienated but resistin the urge to work"Dutch

Always resist! Trouble is, if I put as much effort into work as I do into
resisting I'd be rich by now!

Me

Well, heeding advice from the wise ones here, I fiddled with things today. I
noted a couple of things:

(1) I brought the seat forward about 1cm to try and get my BFB (Big Fat Bum)
on the wider part of the seat. Numb nuts still. Ran out of rail before I ran
out of numbness. I have a straight block seatpost, so it's not a layback
problem. I did find that with my seat further forward my back ached very
quickly. Seat now mounted mid-rail which seems to be the best compromise.

(2) Changed the stem for a slightly higher one to bring the bars up a tad.
That seemed to work a bit better. Grips now about 1" lower than the seat.
I'll try setting them to the same height and see where that leads. I did
note that bumps travel more up my spine now with the more upright position.

(3) Installed a suspension seatpost I got from eBay a few days ago. Hmmm....
not bad. 40km later and all seems well. Much more comfortable but
something's still not right down below.

(4) Rode back to my girlfriend's place (now with bike bits scattered all
over her patio... I'll pay for that sometime!) and changed my shorts. AHA! I
changed from a pair of Mountain Designs RCs into my old faithful Shimano
XTRs (wish I could still get them! Anyone know a seller?). Much better. No
numbs nuts, less road shock, better "feel'.

I reckon it's got something to do with the chamois used. The RCs have a
similar chamois to my Fox shorts and my knicks. My Shimanos and an unbranded
pair (also good, but I don't know what to ask for!) have minimal padding. I
wonder if the chamois (what's the plural? Chamoises?) are designed more for
road bikes than MTBs Quite a different position taken on an MTB. The chamois
comes (for me) too far up at the front and I seem to sit on the back edge of
the chamois when in the saddle. The position would make sense if I was on a
roady, leaning forward more. On an MTB, however, it's not quite right.

Reflecting, I've always had more problems when wearing the RCs or the Fox
shorts. I haven't worn the knicks enough to compare (I look like a hairy egg
in an egg cup - vanity, thy name is Frank!).

So, a tip emerged from today's fiddling: When buying shorts for MTBing don't
get suckered into thinking a high-tech, whiz-bang chamois is critical. The
proper placement of a minimal chamois seems to work better for the MTB
position. Has anyone had a similar experience? Or is that why so many people
on MTBs like shorts like those from NZone and Ground Effect?

Just musing now...

Frank

check the angle of your seat too.
put a spirit level on it (fore-aft).
perfectly level seems to be the starting point but perhaps a deg or
nose down might change things?

the search continues...

F"Im alright jack"Dutc

--
flyingdutch

flyingdutch wrote:
check the angle of your seat too.
put a spirit level on it (fore-aft).
perfectly level seems to be the starting point but perhaps a deg or 2
nose down might change things?

Or a degree or so up, so that you slide to the back of the saddle,
reducing pressure on "precious".

hippy

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:19:49 +1000, hippy
wrote:

flyingdutch wrote:
check the angle of your seat too.
put a spirit level on it (fore-aft).
perfectly level seems to be the starting point but perhaps a deg or 2
nose down might change things?

Or a degree or so up, so that you slide to the back of the saddle,
reducing pressure on "precious".

That'll make it worse, not better!

Think about how your pelvis is rotated forward when you're in
a TT position, and how you want the seat to fit.