Liggett questions Ullrich's sportsmanship

"Justin F. Knotzke" wrote in message
...

On the other end of the sportsman spectrum we have those two
Spaniards who did fsck all the entire climb only to sprint for the time
bonus. And for WHAT!?! That time bonus means a world more to Ullrich
then to either of those two punks.



That is exactly right.

If they were going for the win, the rationale could be there.

Sprinting for 2nd and taking something important away from someone who aided
you (and gaining very little for yourself) is just stupid and selfish.

It's not even good for the team sponsor.

Clovis Lark writes:

zeno wrote:
What you say is an assumption based on a fanciful scenario. The fact is
that Armstrong did wait for Jan. Whatever else you might say about Jan,
he has always struck me as an honorable fellow and would feel honor
bound to return the gesture.

What was the incident they kept referring back to where Jan had a flat? It
seemed that they stressed this far more than the Ride into the "void".

Pantani waited for Ullrich once, during a mountain stage where they
were going mano-a-mano. Ullrich was the weaker of the two that day,
but Pantani waited for Ullrich to get a wheel change.

Anyway, that may be what they were referring to.

-Gerard

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

"Justin F. Knotzke" wrote in message
...

On the other end of the sportsman spectrum we have those two
Spaniards who did fsck all the entire climb only to sprint for the time
bonus. And for WHAT!?! That time bonus means a world more to Ullrich
then to either of those two punks.



That is exactly right.

If they were going for the win, the rationale could be there.

Sprinting for 2nd and taking something important away from someone who aided
you (and gaining very little for yourself) is just stupid and selfish.

It's not even good for the team sponsor.

Except that it is a Basque team, lots of Basque fans and probably very
good for the sponsor.

"Bob Wong" wrote in message
. ca...
I think Lance used his spill today the best he could. The group waited
for
him, then he attacked the group minutes later. Tactically, he rode a
great
race.

The group waited, and then Mayo attacked the group. Lance then attacked Mayo
and left them all behind.

In article , Steve Litvin
wrote:


Since Jan was willing to wait for Lance today after
the crash, wouldn't he have been able to ask people to
wait for him when he had his unmentionable problem a couple
of days ago? Or is that unreasonable?

"Arthur Ogus" wrote in message
...
In article , Steve Litvin
wrote:


Since Jan was willing to wait for Lance today after
the crash, wouldn't he have been able to ask people to
wait for him when he had his unmentionable problem a couple
of days ago? Or is that unreasonable?

In theory, yes. Only If it was possible to get through to them. Remember at
that point there would have been at least 2 teams to contact. Maybe they
could not get a hold of everyone concerned, or they did not want to bother.

In article , "Steve Litvin"
wrote:

But Phil points out that that moment came on a descent, and that it
happened at a less crucial time: "Two years ago, it was a great
gesture, but of little importance to the race - they were going
downhill. This time, Ullrich lost all his rhythm and he can never
accelerate like Lance." (http://www.olntv.com/tdf03/liggett15.html)

I agree with Phil...sort of. It wouldn't have been sporting for Jan to
attach after the crash but in a strange way I think the crash may have been
more detrimental to Jan then Lance. Why? As Phil mentioned Ullrich is a
"rhythm" or "diesel" rider...he has to get the engine rolling and doesn't
have Lances jump. Remember before the crash Lance attacked and Mayo and
Ullrich covered it....Jan was rolling. After the crash Lance got a team
mate back and he didn't have to chase too hard to get back to the group of
GC leaders.....which he then sat on (with his team mate in the lead) and
then attacked (as a counter to Mayo if I remember). Without the crash I
think Jan would have sat on Lances wheel and there is a better chance they
would have finished together. There still is a good chance Lance would have
jumped again but I still think Jan got the "short end of the stick" out of
the crash situation.

Steve

You can't win. If Ullrich had attacked or taken off, he would have been
criticized for being a jerk!

"Justin F. Knotzke" wrote:


At a MINIMUM they should have sat up
for thanks for pulling their arses up that climb.


This Ullrich fellow must be mighty strong.

But Phil points out that that moment came on a descent, and that it
happened at a less crucial time: "Two years ago, it was a great
gesture, but of little importance to the race - they were going
downhill. This time, Ullrich lost all his rhythm and he can never
accelerate like Lance." (http://www.olntv.com/tdf03/liggett15.html)

I agree with Phil...sort of. It wouldn't have been sporting for Jan to
attach after the crash but in a strange way I think the crash may have been
more detrimental to Jan then Lance. Why? As Phil mentioned Ullrich is a
"rhythm" or "diesel" rider...he has to get the engine rolling and doesn't
have Lances jump. Remember before the crash Lance attacked and Mayo and
Ullrich covered it....Jan was rolling. After the crash Lance got a team
mate back and he didn't have to chase too hard to get back to the group of
GC leaders.....which he then sat on (with his team mate in the lead) and
then attacked (as a counter to Mayo if I remember). Without the crash I
think Jan would have sat on Lances wheel and there is a better chance they
would have finished together. There still is a good chance Lance would have
jumped again but I still think Jan got the "short end of the stick" out of
the crash situation.

Steve

I agree with Phil...sort of. It wouldn't have been sporting for Jan to
attach after the crash but in a strange way I think the crash may have been
more detrimental to Jan then Lance. Why? As Phil mentioned Ullrich is a
"rhythm" or "diesel" rider...he has to get the engine rolling and doesn't
have Lances jump. Remember before the crash Lance attacked and Mayo and
Ullrich covered it....Jan was rolling.

My analysis exactly. Just before the crash Ullrich easily closed the
gap and looked nice and fresh. When Hamilton wavec, I immediatly
noticed Jan was all red and puffed. Very odd.

After the crash Lance got a team
mate back and he didn't have to chase too hard to get back to the group of
GC leaders.....which he then sat on (with his team mate in the lead) and
then attacked (as a counter to Mayo if I remember). Without the crash I
think Jan would have sat on Lances wheel and there is a better chance they
would have finished together.

Yup

There still is a good chance Lance would have
jumped again but I still think Jan got the "short end of the stick" out of
the crash situation.

Steve