Armstrong vs Ullrich / racing weight

"Precious Pup" wrote in message
...


Andy Coggan wrote:

"Steve Kenney" wrote in message
...
In the last stage climb I thought I heard Phil Ligget comment that
Ullrich
has a climbing disadvantage carrying more weight than Armstrong. I
must
have
heard this wrong, as I think I heard 33 pounds??? This can't be right.
According to the rider stat's on the TDF website Lance outweighs Jan
by
2kg
or 4.4 pounds.

I don't think the rider's "official" weights from the TdF website can be
trusted.

FWIW, Armstrong was quoted just before the Tour began as saying that he
was
struggling to get down to his fighting weight of previous years of
"about 74
kg". More recently, he was quoted as saying that he weighed 66.5 kg
immediately after the TT, vs. "probably" 72-73 kg that morning. Put it
all
together, and my guess is that he normally weighs significantly more
than 74
kg, diets down to that weight by the start of the race, then loses
another
1-1.5 kg during the race.


I recall that Armstrong tries to get down to about 158 lb (72 kg) or so
for the tour. Very light considering
I think I remenber he won the Du Pont at around 170-175 lb or so.

Armstrong's exact weight is relevant in attempting to estimate his
power/weight based on reported SRM data and/or climbing
performance...which
is why I've been taking note.

Isn't this obvious enough that it need not be stated? Never mind.


I think he is trying to establish that his opinion is important because he
is highly motivated to find out?

gk wrote:

You make the reactionary statment that [if] the sources are off by 35-40
lbs (???) then Ulrich is 195 lbs. What?.

This thread started with Paul Sherwen's comment that Jan
Ullrich weigh 33 pounds more than Armstrong. I said that he
was talking out his ass and from what you write below, you
agree:

If LA is more like 155-160lbs
(71 kg is what I have seen quoted), and Ulrich is more like 165-170 lbs,
that is a 10-15 lb difference.

Lance said after stage 13 that his race weight this year is
72 kg (158 pounds - below what the "official" sites list him
as). Ullrich is listed by several sources as 73 kg. He is
much lighter than in past years.

In any case, I stand by my comment that Paul Sherwen is
talking out his ass.

Todd Kuzma

gk wrote in message ...
There have been several articles that I have read discussing the
superior power-to-weight ratio of Armstrong. This would imply that he is
lighter, since Ullrich is no slouch when it comes to power.

Countless times I have heard, through my ears, about how much lighter
Armstrong is that Ulrich.

You make the reactionary statment that [if] the sources are off by 35-40
lbs (???) then Ulrich is 195 lbs. What?. If LA is more like 155-160lbs
(71 kg is what I have seen quoted), and Ulrich is more like 165-170 lbs,
that is a 10-15 lb difference.

snipped from an above post:

"...and my guess is that he normally weighs significantly more than 74
kg, diets down to that weight by the start of the race, then loses
another 1-1.5 kg during the race."

This is exactly what I have read. he weighs about 77 kg, and drops to 71
around race time = 156lbs

I would be very surprised if a 5'9" person with 4% body fat with very
little upper body mass is 170lbs. He probably gets this lean for the race...

In the past, I thought Ullrich had weight problems; and perhaps he
doesn't lose the weight before the race...

Todd Kuzma wrote:



According to the Tour site, Lance is 1.77m tall and weighs 75 kg (165
pounds). According to the USPS team site, he is 1.78m tall and weighs
77 kg (170 pounds).

According to the Tour site, Bianchi team site, and Jan Ullrich's own
site, Jan is 1.83 mm tall and weighs 73 kg (161 pounds).

So, I guess all of these sources are off by 35-40 pounds, and Jan
Ullrich is the best 195+ pound climber in the history of cycling.

Todd Kuzma

I agree

Todd Kuzma wrote:

According to the Tour site, Lance is 1.77m tall and weighs
75 kg (165 pounds). According to the USPS team site, he is
1.78m tall and weighs 77 kg (170 pounds).

I sure don't believe that last number, unless Lance has been
hiding penny rolls in his shorts. This is based on nothing
more scientific than a comparison to my own Fat Master body.
I don't really believe any of these numbers apply especially
after 2.5 weeks of high intensity racing.

As for the business about Jan's deep dish carbon wheels, it is likely
the braking quality that is an issue, not stiffness. Dan Connelly
needs to repost a link to that picture of Bill Lloyd's road rash at
Pescadero for corroboration. Give Sherwen a break, with having to
talk nonstop for hours while diplomatically correcting Phil's
misidentifications, he is going to make up some random stuff.

According to the Tour site, Bianchi team site, and Jan
Ullrich's own site, Jan is 1.83 mm tall and weighs 73 kg
(161 pounds).

Gregory Kinney wrote:

Well, I guess that was my point, although I don't think he was making up
random stuff, he was embellishing and perhaps exaggerating a bit. So to
me, he wasn't "talking out of his ass", since Armstrong's lighter weight
relative to Ullrich's has been a topic in the past, and is relevant to a
discussion on ascending;

Hey, I LIKE Paul and Phil, but Sherwen said that Ullrich
weighed 33 pounds more than Armstrong, and that isn't even
close. It's not "exaggerating a bit." It's "talking out of
his ass."

Yes, people have talked about the weight difference in the
past, but Ullrich showed up at the Tour much lighter than in
the past. Going by every published weight for the two
(including Lance's statement about his weight just this
week), they are no more than 5 pounds apart either way.

Todd Kuzma

"Claire Petersky" wrote in message
m...
Todd Kuzma wrote in message
...

According to the Tour site, Lance is 1.77m tall and weighs
75 kg (165 pounds).

So, I'm 1.75m tall, and I weigh 70 kgs -- how come I'm not in the Tour
de France, huh? huh? huh?



I'll guess: Wattage Deficit Disorder




K. Gringioni
sufferer of WDD

Todd Kuzma wrote:

Hey, I LIKE Paul and Phil, but Sherwen said that Ullrich
weighed 33 pounds more than Armstrong, and that isn't even
close. It's not "exaggerating a bit." It's "talking out of
his ass."

Okay, that is in fact ridiculous. Even fat non-climbing sprinters
like Cipollini and Petacchi don't weigh 33 pounds more than
Armstrong. I was cutting him a break over the carbon wheels
business only. (Maybe he meant 15 pounds not 15 kilos, I don't
believe that either but Sherwen might.)

30lbs ? He must product a great deal more power than Armstrong to stay with
him in the mountains if he is giving up 30lbs. Is that difference in power
what we saw in the 48k TT with Jan taking 1.30? If it is then Lance is in
trouble on the final TT.

--
Irrationally held truths may be more harmfull than reasoned errors.
"Bob" wrote in message news:1CeTa.109244$OZ2.21138@rwcrnsc54...

Steve Kenney wrote:

In the last stage climb I thought I heard Phil Ligget comment that
Ullrich
has a climbing disadvantage carrying more weight than Armstrong. I must
have
heard this wrong, as I think I heard 33 pounds??? This can't be right.
According to the rider stat's on the TDF website Lance outweighs Jan by
2kg
or 4.4 pounds.

jan being around 30lbs heavier seems about right. he is 2" taller than
lance
(assuming available stats are correct) and he looks a lot heavier.

Claire Petersky wrote:
Todd Kuzma wrote in message ...

According to the Tour site, Lance is 1.77m tall and weighs
75 kg (165 pounds).

So, I'm 1.75m tall, and I weigh 70 kgs -- how come I'm not in the Tour
de France, huh? huh? huh?

It's the conspiracy to keep women out of the Tour de France,
I think we went over this a week or two ago.

Benjamin Weiner wrote:
(Maybe he meant 15 pounds not 15 kilos, I don't
believe that either but Sherwen might.)

He actually said 15 kilos and then said 33 pounds.

Todd Kuzma