Threaded versus threadless headset

"Fabrizio Mazzoleni" wrote in message .ca...
David L. Johnson wrote in message ...

With a quill stem (that is, with a threaded fork and headset),

And if you do see guys with quill stems on the
next ride then find another group to ride with,
because they are the 'B' group. Those are
probably the same lamers that are running
conventional 32 spoke wheels. Not the types
you want to been seen with!

Not at all; my wheels are either 36H, or 40H, 3X and tied and soldered ;-)
It all fits perfectly well with my quill stem, Brooks saddle, and sandals
as my footware :-)

- rick

writes:

"Threadless headset" is a lame name for an improvement that had such a
long time to market. The quill stem, aka, the creaking, wobbling,
permanently stuck stem, was always a weak part on the bicycle that has
been relieved of duty by this innovation. The main feature is not the
headset with its lack of threads, but the stem and its solid reliable
and removable attachment to the steer tube. However, the head bearing
can be adjusted in a trifle, without two ungainly 8-point end
wrenches. The whole job can be done with an Allen wrench. Besides
that, for the weight weenies, it's lighter.

For safety and reliability, get a stem that has two screws on the
steer tube end and four on the front plate so that a one screw failure
will not let the handlebar go free.

I recently put a Ritchey WCS stem on my bike.
That stem is only one I know of with the 4-bolt/2-bolt design you
describe.

Richard Ney:

writes:

"Threadless headset" is a lame name for an improvement that had such a
long time to market. The quill stem, aka, the creaking, wobbling,
permanently stuck stem, was always a weak part on the bicycle that has
been relieved of duty by this innovation. The main feature is not the
headset with its lack of threads, but the stem and its solid reliable
and removable attachment to the steer tube. However, the head bearing
can be adjusted in a trifle, without two ungainly 8-point end
wrenches. The whole job can be done with an Allen wrench. Besides
that, for the weight weenies, it's lighter.

For safety and reliability, get a stem that has two screws on the
steer tube end and four on the front plate so that a one screw failure
will not let the handlebar go free.

I recently put a Ritchey WCS stem on my bike.
That stem is only one I know of with the 4-bolt/2-bolt design you
describe.

Thomson, FSA, Oval Concepts, Deda Elementi all have the 2/4 bolt
arrangement for road stems. ITM has a 2/3 bolt feature.

"Hjalmar Duklæt" wrote in message
...
Hi,
What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded
one? Is the threaded one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in
any
way going from threaded to threadless?
Hjalmar



Many thanks to all who have made their comments on my issue. My conclusion
is that I really don't need to swap fork/stem on my Trek 5500. I don't have
problems riding with other riders because of this obsolete setup, I like to
be able to change the hight of the bar without to much fuss, I also
regularly check that the stem is not stuck in the steerer (after having to
use a hacksaw to get the stem out of another bike/fork) and it probably will
not improve my sprint due to its better rigidness. Finally, I'll save a lot
of money.
Hjalmar

wrote in message ...
I don't see that happening more than once or twice a year... every 5000
miles.

Most excellent drive-by gloat.

Dick Durbin

Threaded is better because the height it is adjustable.

The threadless is cheaper to manufacture. Like many
"advancements," i.e. the elimination of lugs, the move
to aluminum from chromolloy steel on the cheaper bikes,
these changes are marketed as improvements when they
are really not.

I remember the first bike I got with a threadless headset
and I guess I hadn't kept up with the times because I was
confused as to the assembly (this was a specialty high end
folding bike not sold in stores and it was bought on-line and
required assembly). I just couldn't believe that they'd eliminate
the easy adjustability, and I thought I was missing some parts.

"Hjalmar Duklæt" wrote in message
...
Hi,
What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded
one? Is the threaded one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in
any
way going from threaded to threadless?
Hjalmar

"David L. Johnson" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:14:14 +0000, Bob M wrote:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:39:02 -0400, Rick Onanian wrote:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:07:00 -0400, David L. Johnson
wrote:
again, every time you mess around with the stem, you have to re-adjust
the bearings.

Care to elaborate? I've adjusted and changes stems on my threadless-stem
road bike a few times, and if I missed something important, I'd like to
know...

Which bearings, and what type of adjustment?


Basically, you tighten the bolt on the cap until you feel no play in the
headset (which can be done by grabbing the front brakes and pushing the
bike forward). That's the adjustment. On a threaded headset, it's the
same adjustment, only you tighten large nuts that go around the steerer
tube.

But you only do the adjustment on a threaded headset once. For
threadless, you have to re-do each time you change anything about the
stem. When you remove the stem of a threadless headset, the whole headset
assembly is loose.

Yes, it's simple enough to re-adjust, though I do not like the idea of
trying to adjust the preload if the bearings are not clean and well-lubed.

We have all heard about people who couldn't adjust the preload on their
hubs; I see no reason to presume they could adjust the preload on a
headset, either. For them, raising the bar height means a trip to the
mechanic.

I guess I don't see this as a significant drawback to the threadless
design. Isn't there an easy workaround? Can't you just use a thin
clamp to hold the preload, and then move the spacers and stem around
as much as you like?

wrote:

David L. Johnson writes:

But you only do the adjustment on a threaded headset once. For
threadless, you have to re-do each time you change anything about
the stem. When you remove the stem of a threadless headset, the
whole headset assembly is loose.

I think you are overlooking the simplicity of this adjustment. You
can do it while sensing whether the bearing adjustment is correct,
unlike futzing with two large end wrenches on a guess and then finding
out it was off a bit (too tight or too loose). You can bounce the
front wheel while you adjust the Allen screw and hear bearing rattle
go away. Then you snug up the stem ad its done.

Yes, it's simple enough to re-adjust, though I do not like the idea
of trying to adjust the preload if the bearings are not clean and
well-lubed.

Excuses won't get you no place! Dirt does not interfere with Bearing
adjustment unless it's so bad you should take it apart and clean it.

We have all heard about people who couldn't adjust the preload on
their hubs; I see no reason to presume they could adjust the preload
on a headset, either. For them, raising the bar height means a trip
to the mechanic.

What I don't understand is why you want to take your stem off all the
time. I only do that to clean and lubricate the head bearings. I
don't see that happening more than once or twice a year... every 5000
miles.

The flip side of this is if you only do that adjustment once or twice a year,
what's the big deal about ease of adjustment?

To paraphrase the OP's question: "Is the design so much better that it's worth
the money, time, and trouble to switch from threaded to threadless?". Both
systems have advantages and disadvantages but neither has such an overwhelming
advantage over the other that an otherwise unnecessary- no broken parts, etc-
switch is worth it.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Bob Hunt writes:

But you only do the adjustment on a threaded headset once. For
threadless, you have to re-do each time you change anything about
the stem. When you remove the stem of a threadless headset, the
whole headset assembly is loose.

I think you are overlooking the simplicity of this adjustment. You
can do it while sensing whether the bearing adjustment is correct,
unlike futzing with two large end wrenches on a guess and then
finding out it was off a bit (too tight or too loose). You can
bounce the front wheel while you adjust the Allen screw and hear
bearing rattle go away. Then you snug up the stem ad its done.

Yes, it's simple enough to re-adjust, though I do not like the
idea of trying to adjust the preload if the bearings are not clean
and well-lubed.

Excuses won't get you no place! Dirt does not interfere with
Bearing adjustment unless it's so bad you should take it apart and
clean it.

We have all heard about people who couldn't adjust the preload on
their hubs; I see no reason to presume they could adjust the
preload on a headset, either. For them, raising the bar height
means a trip to the mechanic.

What I don't understand is why you want to take your stem off all
the time. I only do that to clean and lubricate the head bearings.
I don't see that happening more than once or twice a year... every
5000 miles.

The flip side of this is if you only do that adjustment once or
twice a year, what's the big deal about ease of adjustment?

Read the message. This was in response to the first paragraph above.
Your line of logic works for responses to invalid complaints on all
sides of the issue. Somewhere, the lines must cross.

To paraphrase the OP's question: "Is the design so much better that
it's worth the money, time, and trouble to switch from threaded to
threadless?". Both systems have advantages and disadvantages but
neither has such an overwhelming advantage over the other that an
otherwise unnecessary- no broken parts, etc- switch is worth it.

That depends on whether the old system is a burden on maintenance and
safety. I'm going to change because I have had enough problems with
quill stems to warrant it. Besides, the safety margin in a 0.975 dia
aluminum stem is nowhere near that of a 1.25 dia tubular stem.

Jobst Brandt

Palo Alto CA

"David L. Johnson" wrote in message
...
There is one, and only one, advantage to a threadless headset. Dealers
only have to sell one size fork. There are many disadvantages: little to
no bar height adjustment possible without replacing the stem, having to
re-set the bearing adjustment any time the stem is replaced in order to
try to improve bar height. Ugliness.

The bar height problem is IMO a real one. Many new bikes are set up to
look like what the pros ride. So people buy them, only to realize that

This is SO true. You should contact my friends at my LBS (Bike Gallery in
Portland, Oregon) and ask them what they did to my bike. Wanting a road bike
I bought a Trek 1000, before thinking about the fit and the threadless
issue. Well, needless to say once they fit me it was a disaster. I needed
the threadless stem raised about a half a foot! They came up with an
innovative solution where they managed to attach a threaded stem to the fork
by going down into the fork somehow. It's awesome. Works great. Not sure
EXACTLY what they did, but I love it. It's so well done I can foresee myself
keeping this bike for a long time and replacing parts as needed.

Preston