Those French!

Bush killed women and children in Iraq. If you can't understand that
then I feel bad for you. The resistance in Iraq is targeting traitors
mostly set up by the puppet government, and the invading forces. Key
words you must look out for: Democracy, freedom, insurgents, etc. Most
of those words are mental manipulation, and you haven't seen through it
yet. They are used whenever something must be justified..usually a
terrorist act.

Sandy wrote:

So when I say "No hablo espagnol" - that means I am fluent ? Sorry, I just
don't hablo. But I can get that much across. Then, it's time to find yet
another language in common.

i'm sorry, i meant that my boyfriend asked a french person in the french
language where the bakery was. my boyfriend said "je cherche une
boulangerie". the french person replied to him "i don't speak english"

don't you see how deliciously funny this story is?? or maybe it's just
me. especially as my bf was a child at the time, but that didn't stop
this guy from slapping him down.

i didn't mean to make you mad, i'm sorry, i tried to say that this was
just meant to be an anecdote and that my boyfriend didn't hate the
french because of it or anything. he went there tons of times and lived
with french people in their homes, so he must have enjoyed it.

guess i can't even communicate in english anymore. i was recently joking
about taking an "english as a second language" class, and my bf said
speculatively, "that may not be such a bad idea."
heather

h squared a =E9crit :
Sandy wrote:

So when I say "No hablo espagnol" - that means I am fluent ? Sorry, I =
just
don't hablo. But I can get that much across. Then, it's time to find =
yet
another language in common.

i'm sorry, i meant that my boyfriend asked a french person in the french
language where the bakery was. my boyfriend said "je cherche une
boulangerie". the french person replied to him "i don't speak english"

Funny, this happens to me almost daily: I speak perfect French, and yet
a French person will respond to me in English. I think it's because
I haven't lived all my life here, so I do not respond the way they
think
a French person should.

I've already warned my wife that this will happen to her when we're
over
in the US next month. For example, she told a couple from Texas that
we would be over there to visit someone in the "big house" and they
had no clue what she was talking about. Basically, people don't expect
idiomatic expressions from a non native speaker.

-ilan

In article ,
Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:10:28 GMT, Bob Martin wrote:
I've had people in the USA tell me they didn't understand my English
- and I'm English! But I didn't put it down to arrogance ...

If heard stories of a Dutchman interpreting for 2 businessmen from Texas
and Ireland.

I once had a run-in with the Welsh Mafia. They made me an offer I
couldn't understand...

(tip o' the hat to John Cooper Clarke)

--
tanx,
Howard

Butter is love.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"The Big House" here in the US is slang for Federal Prison--obviously your
wife uses the term differently??

My two cents--

Jean in VA

wrote in message
oups.com...


I've already warned my wife that this will happen to her when we're
over
in the US next month. For example, she told a couple from Texas that
we would be over there to visit someone in the "big house" and they
had no clue what she was talking about. Basically, people don't expect
idiomatic expressions from a non native speaker.

-ilan

Jean S. Barto a =E9crit :
"The Big House" here in the US is slang for Federal Prison--obviously your
wife uses the term differently??

My two cents--

Jean in VA

Thanks, you've proved my point.

-ilan


wrote in message
oups.com...


I've already warned my wife that this will happen to her when we're
over
in the US next month. For example, she told a couple from Texas that
we would be over there to visit someone in the "big house" and they
had no clue what she was talking about. Basically, people don't expect
idiomatic expressions from a non native speaker.
=20
-ilan

wrote:


Funny, this happens to me almost daily: I speak perfect French, and yet
a French person will respond to me in English. I think it's because
I haven't lived all my life here, so I do not respond the way they
think
a French person should.

yes, but the guy in my story could have answered the question in french,
couldn't he?? and i should stress that i'm sure this guy was just a jerk
and didn't want to be bothered to help my bf out, it had nothing to do
with being french. he would have been a jerk just as well in any other
country.

I've already warned my wife that this will happen to her when we're
over
in the US next month. For example, she told a couple from Texas that
we would be over there to visit someone in the "big house" and they
had no clue what she was talking about. Basically, people don't expect
idiomatic expressions from a non native speaker.

your wife is going to visit someone on death row? that sounds a little
stressful. has she done this before, i'm sorry, i've forgotten

hh

h squared wrote:

don't you see how deliciously funny this story is?? or maybe it's just
me. especially as my bf was a child at the time, but that didn't stop
this guy from slapping him down.

now after the junior fatties thread, i suppose i have to add that i have
no wish to see innocent children slapped down for my amusement. just my
bf...
..

h

h squared wrote:
Sandy wrote:

So when I say "No hablo espagnol" - that means I am fluent ? Sorry, I just
don't hablo. But I can get that much across. Then, it's time to find yet
another language in common.

i'm sorry, i meant that my boyfriend asked a french person in the french
language where the bakery was. my boyfriend said "je cherche une
boulangerie". the french person replied to him "i don't speak english"

don't you see how deliciously funny this story is?? or maybe it's just
me. especially as my bf was a child at the time, but that didn't stop
this guy from slapping him down.

i didn't mean to make you mad, i'm sorry, i tried to say that this was
just meant to be an anecdote and that my boyfriend didn't hate the
french because of it or anything. he went there tons of times and lived
with french people in their homes, so he must have enjoyed it.

guess i can't even communicate in english anymore. i was recently joking
about taking an "english as a second language" class, and my bf said
speculatively, "that may not be such a bad idea."

It was pretty clear, perhaps Sandy's vigilance to anti-French
anecdotia misled him.

It's a marginal stereotype/cliche that French speakers will
respond to an English speaker's clumsy French in English, even
if their English is actually worse than your French. However,
in my very limited experience, it really only happens in Paris,
and not all the time there either. People who generalize this
to a universal condition of "French rudeness" are stoopid because
it's like going to New York and reporting back that all Americans
are in a hurry, loud and brusque. Yeah, and so what?

My experience here is pretty out of date because I haven't been
in many years. However, if rbr feels this needs to be researched
further, I am willing to be sponsored. Europe is nearly
unaffordable for those of us paid in a third-world currency like
the Bush dollar.

trg wrote:
(nancy1 wrote):

I believe that any tourist or visitor (for example, someone there on an
academic sabbatical) can cite more than one instance of the arrogant
French attitude of "I cannot understand your French," even if it is perfect.

If you are not a native (born or close to it), your French, or any
other language learned later, is *not* and will never be, "perfect".
Even if your imitation is excellent, your clothing, makeup, "whatever"
will give you away very quickly. Maybe the French person is seizing the
opportunity to practice his English? So it seemed to me, and the accent
is not a problem IMHO, French to English. Going the other way...?

I had a French/American instructor for French, who explained that it
can be (often) very painful for a French person to listen to anglos
speak French. I observed the truth of this, in France (wincing
listeners, bad accents being pounded into peoples' heads with excessive
volume). So, if you open in French (Sandy's suggestions, this thread)
politely, by no means be offended if the conversation continues in
English. That's what happened for me, except once: We (me, spouse, two
children) were staying in the Hotel Nicolo, near the Eiffel Tower. The
younger was still using bottles. We couldn't find anyplace nearby
(could have asked at the desk, but...) that sold food, or water to mix
up formula with. Somewhat desparate, when I saw a young woman pushing a
Euro-style baby stroller, with full grocery basket under, I stopped and
blurted out, first attempt at speaking in a foreign land, "Excusez-moi,
madame, ou avez vous trouvez", etc. etc. She started telling me where,
stumbled, then changed to English, and tentatively asked: "If you are
comfortable in English, I can tell you better". She was a young
American wife whose husband had been transferred to Paris for his job.
Stressed herself, child about 1 yr. or less, and "green" enough not to
see immed. that I was American, too (short pants!), and then not
recognize my accent... we had a laugh, and I went to the Monoprix she
told me of, which looks like a clothing store from the display window
visible on the street, but in the "basement", voila! A most complete
grocery store, and decent prices, too. Friendly staff, I spoke a little
French with them and other folks, incl. the guys at the Petit Les
Halles up the street. We asked directions fairly often, never a curt
answer. A manager at a fuel stop, very busy already, took the time to
make absolutely sure we didn't take any more wrong turns on the way
from Paris to Luxembourg ('02 Tour Prologue and Stage 1 start). The
only time I had people get "short" with me was when I was goo-goo'ing
coins ("oooh, one from Spain!!!) instead of taking care of business.
Fair enough.

(nancy1 wrote):
Even Bob Roll's pronunciation of TDF is a reaction related to
his experience with that arrogance which is born of resentment.

Your Ronald Reagan exerpt was an exercise in arrogance born of
resentment.

Please: Ronald Reagan, in spite of the incredible whitewashing he got
when he died, was such an extreme idealogue that he serves as the
towering symbol of an ignoble "conservative" way of thought. Or rather,
rhetoric. (Examples): When criticized by TV reporters for his economic
policies that saw increasingly large numbers of people sleeping on city
sewer grates (many from asylums for the mentally handicapped which had
been closed for "lack of funding"), Reagan angrily replied that "they
are sleeping on those sewer grates because they want to sleep on those
sewer grates". And let's not forget the spectacle of (then) California
Gov. Reagan's State Troopers beating striking fruit/vegetable pickers
over the head with nightsticks while Ronnie ate grapes for a TV "news
conference", more California Troopers at hand. Pickers? striking to
make enough money to be able to keep their children in one place,
instead of constantly travelling with the crops, so they could get an
education ("learn to read and write"), so they did not become pickers
too. "Breaking the Cycle of Poverty". Or picker heads?

OK, now I've deleted the "trg" post that I was expanding (to say the
least) on. Apologies, t. Likely, done here. --TP