Flashing lights cause accidents -- police experience

As y'all know, in addition to steady dynamo lights (BUMM Cyo and
D'Toplight) on day and night, I also run white forward and red rear
flashing lights on day and night as attention attractors, as bike
identifiers.

Here's an article that would feed those who oppose my method; it's by
an apparently very experienced police instructor.
http://www.policedriving.com/article145.htm Those who oppose effective
lights will see only that he says flashing lights cause "moth effect"
and other "confusion" accidents. What I see is that he says amber
flashing lights should be used instead of red and white. I've known
about the downsides of red and white flashing lights all along but
after considerable though decided that I'd rather be seen by a
possibly confused driver than be hit by him because he didn't see me
at all.

I knew about amber lights already -- every well-trained psychologist
knows; you'll remember I searched for amber flashing lights and found
none available to me. (I tried to order some from a police supplier
who refused to supply me because i wasn't the police! I noticed he
since went out of business.)

I wonder if it is worth writing to someone like Dealz Extreme and
telling them that they could make a buck if one of their suppliers
would put an amber lene on one of the good flashing lights they sell.
Yo, Scharfie, don't you put yourself forward as some kind of a bicycle
light consultant with contacts?

Andre Jute
"The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument which must be
protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo-Pelayo
Ricart Medina

Andre Jute wrote:
As y'all know, in addition to steady dynamo lights (BUMM Cyo and
D'Toplight) on day and night, I also run white forward and red rear
flashing lights on day and night as attention attractors, as bike
identifiers.

Here's an article that would feed those who oppose my method; it's by
an apparently very experienced police instructor.
http://www.policedriving.com/article145.htm Those who oppose effective
lights will see only that he says flashing lights cause "moth effect"
and other "confusion" accidents. What I see is that he says amber
flashing lights should be used instead of red and white. I've known
about the downsides of red and white flashing lights all along but
after considerable though decided that I'd rather be seen by a
possibly confused driver than be hit by him because he didn't see me
at all.

I knew about amber lights already -- every well-trained psychologist
knows; you'll remember I searched for amber flashing lights and found
none available to me. (I tried to order some from a police supplier
who refused to supply me because i wasn't the police! I noticed he
since went out of business.)

I wonder if it is worth writing to someone like Dealz Extreme and
telling them that they could make a buck if one of their suppliers
would put an amber lene on one of the good flashing lights they sell.
Yo, Scharfie, don't you put yourself forward as some kind of a bicycle
light consultant with contacts?


Been done. The way-before-its-time Ampec Belt Beacon was a
cute bright cheap Xenon amber strobe. My other company
distributed them 30 years ago but they are long gone now.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Feb 13, 7:20*pm, Andre Jute wrote:
As y'all know, in addition to steady dynamo lights (BUMM Cyo and
D'Toplight) on day and night, I also run white forward and red rear
flashing lights on day and night as attention attractors, as bike
identifiers.

Here's an article that would feed those who oppose my method; it's by
an apparently very experienced police instructor.http://www.policedriving..com/article145.htmThose who oppose effective
lights will see only that he says flashing lights cause "moth effect"
and other "confusion" accidents. What I see is that he says amber
flashing lights should be used instead of red and white. I've known
about the downsides of red and white flashing lights all along but
after considerable though decided that I'd rather be seen by a
possibly confused driver than be hit by him because he didn't see me
at all.

I knew about amber lights already -- every well-trained psychologist
knows; you'll remember I searched for amber flashing lights and found
none available to me. (I tried to order some from a police supplier
who refused to supply me because i wasn't the police! I noticed he
since went out of business.)

I wonder if it is worth writing to someone like Dealz Extreme and
telling them that they could make a buck if one of their suppliers
would put an amber lene on one of the good flashing lights they sell.
Yo, Scharfie, don't you put yourself forward as some kind of a bicycle
light consultant with contacts?

*Andre Jute
*"The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument which must be
protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo-Pelayo
Ricart Medina

Hi there.

It's nice to see that studies seem to agree with my present rear
lighting setup. Many years ago I had one of those Belt Beacons Andrew
mentioned. It was a fantastic light but my bicycle was not considered
legal for night riding because it did not have either a red reflector
or a red light on the rear. I added a small red reflector to make it
legal.

Now I have four rear lights permanently attached to a Minoura T-bar
that is mounted under my rear rack. The two outboard lights are red
and I run them on solid model whilst the two inboard lights are amber
and I run them on blinking mode. This make the bicycle legal and the
amber lights are recognized as cautionary by just about everyone. I
run two lights just in case one goes out whilst I'm riding and because
the two inboard amber lights are very visible at long distances when
they are both on.

Cheers from Peter

On 14 Feb, 04:46, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Feb 13, 7:20*pm, Andre Jute wrote:



As y'all know, in addition to steady dynamo lights (BUMM Cyo and
D'Toplight) on day and night, I also run white forward and red rear
flashing lights on day and night as attention attractors, as bike
identifiers.

Here's an article that would feed those who oppose my method; it's by
an apparently very experienced police instructor.http://www.policedriving.com/article145.htmThosewho oppose effective
lights will see only that he says flashing lights cause "moth effect"
and other "confusion" accidents. What I see is that he says amber
flashing lights should be used instead of red and white. I've known
about the downsides of red and white flashing lights all along but
after considerable though decided that I'd rather be seen by a
possibly confused driver than be hit by him because he didn't see me
at all.

I knew about amber lights already -- every well-trained psychologist
knows; you'll remember I searched for amber flashing lights and found
none available to me. (I tried to order some from a police supplier
who refused to supply me because i wasn't the police! I noticed he
since went out of business.)

I wonder if it is worth writing to someone like Dealz Extreme and
telling them that they could make a buck if one of their suppliers
would put an amber lene on one of the good flashing lights they sell.
Yo, Scharfie, don't you put yourself forward as some kind of a bicycle
light consultant with contacts?

*Andre Jute
*"The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument which must be
protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo-Pelayo
Ricart Medina

Hi there.

It's nice to see that studies seem to agree with my present rear
lighting setup. Many years ago I had one of those Belt Beacons Andrew
mentioned. It was a fantastic light but my bicycle was not considered
legal for night riding because it did not have either a red reflector
or a red light on the rear. I added a small red reflector to make it
legal.

Now I have four rear lights permanently attached to a Minoura T-bar
that is mounted under my rear rack. The two outboard lights are red
and I run them on solid model whilst the two inboard lights are amber
and I run them on blinking mode. This make the bicycle legal and the
amber lights are recognized as cautionary by just about everyone. I
run two lights just in case one goes out whilst I'm riding and because
the two inboard amber lights are very visible at long distances when
they are both on.

Cheers from Peter

In UK, amber flashing lights are suggested for users of mobility
scooters (powered wheelchair) when used on dual carriageways (treated
by motorists as motorways, some actually are, although not legally
defined as such) not subjected to a speed limit less than 50mph
(IIRC). So, although not legal on a bicycle here the addition of a
tow truck beacon to ones luggage could be well worthwhile.

On 14 Feb., 01:20, Andre Jute wrote:
Here's an article that would feed those who oppose my method; it's by
an apparently very experienced police instructor.http://www.policedriving.com/article145.htmThose who oppose effective
lights will see only that he says flashing lights cause "moth effect"
and other "confusion" accidents.

One interesting statement in the cited article is: Lot's of flashing
lights in the scene makes the situation unsafe.

This also sounds plausible for bright flashing LED lights on bicycles:
They may have some benefit in cases with a very very low number of
cyclists - but do more damage than benefit if cycling starts to be
more than 5% of the traffic. If it flashes everywhere, it takes lot of
brain power to know what is going on.

Klaus

On 2/13/2010 6:20 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
As y'all know, in addition to steady dynamo lights (BUMM Cyo and
D'Toplight) on day and night, I also run white forward and red rear
flashing lights on day and night as attention attractors, as bike
identifiers.

Here's an article that would feed those who oppose my method; it's by
an apparently very experienced police instructor.
http://www.policedriving.com/article145.htm Those who oppose effective
lights will see only that he says flashing lights cause "moth effect"
and other "confusion" accidents. What I see is that he says amber
flashing lights should be used instead of red and white. I've known
about the downsides of red and white flashing lights all along but
after considerable though decided that I'd rather be seen by a
possibly confused driver than be hit by him because he didn't see me
at all.

I knew about amber lights already -- every well-trained psychologist
knows; you'll remember I searched for amber flashing lights and found
none available to me. (I tried to order some from a police supplier
who refused to supply me because i wasn't the police! I noticed he
since went out of business.)

I wonder if it is worth writing to someone like Dealz Extreme and
telling them that they could make a buck if one of their suppliers
would put an amber lene on one of the good flashing lights they sell.
Yo, Scharfie, don't you put yourself forward as some kind of a bicycle
light consultant with contacts?

Andre Jute
"The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument which must be
protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo-Pelayo
Ricart Medina


I don't know that any particular color is as good as any other--but one
thing that does make sense to me (concerning motor vehicle use) is to
prohibit civilian cars from having ANY blue lights on them, and then
only allow emergency vehicles to have blue (emergency) lights. As it is
now [where I live] emergency vehicles can have blue emergency lights,
but aren't restricted to them.

As far as my bicycles go..... my electric lights flash, and my
reflectors are steady-on.
~

On Feb 14, 1:04*pm, thirty-six wrote:
On 14 Feb, 04:46, Sir Ridesalot wrote:





On Feb 13, 7:20*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

As y'all know, in addition to steady dynamo lights (BUMM Cyo and
D'Toplight) on day and night, I also run white forward and red rear
flashing lights on day and night as attention attractors, as bike
identifiers.

Here's an article that would feed those who oppose my method; it's by
an apparently very experienced police instructor.http://www.policedriving.com/article...Thosewhooppose effective
lights will see only that he says flashing lights cause "moth effect"
and other "confusion" accidents. What I see is that he says amber
flashing lights should be used instead of red and white. I've known
about the downsides of red and white flashing lights all along but
after considerable though decided that I'd rather be seen by a
possibly confused driver than be hit by him because he didn't see me
at all.

I knew about amber lights already -- every well-trained psychologist
knows; you'll remember I searched for amber flashing lights and found
none available to me. (I tried to order some from a police supplier
who refused to supply me because i wasn't the police! I noticed he
since went out of business.)

I wonder if it is worth writing to someone like Dealz Extreme and
telling them that they could make a buck if one of their suppliers
would put an amber lene on one of the good flashing lights they sell.
Yo, Scharfie, don't you put yourself forward as some kind of a bicycle
light consultant with contacts?

*Andre Jute
*"The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument which must be
protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo-Pelayo
Ricart Medina

Hi there.

It's nice to see that studies seem to agree with my present rear
lighting setup. Many years ago I had one of those Belt Beacons Andrew
mentioned. It was a fantastic light but my bicycle was not considered
legal for night riding because it did not have either a red reflector
or a red light on the rear. I added a small red reflector to make it
legal.

Now I have four rear lights permanently attached to a Minoura T-bar
that is mounted under my rear rack. The two outboard lights are red
and I run them on solid model whilst the two inboard lights are amber
and I run them on blinking mode. This make the bicycle legal and the
amber lights are recognized as cautionary by just about everyone. I
run two lights just in case one goes out whilst I'm riding and because
the two inboard amber lights are very visible at long distances when
they are both on.

Cheers from Peter

In UK, amber flashing lights are suggested for users of mobility
scooters (powered wheelchair) when used on dual carriageways (treated
by motorists as motorways, some actually are, although not legally
defined as such) not subjected to a speed limit less than 50mph
(IIRC). *So, although not legal on a bicycle here the addition of a
tow truck beacon to ones luggage could be well worthwhile.

I thought the law was more general, that a flashing amber light is
compulsory on a slow-moving vehicle, like a tractor or one of those
huge low-loaders they use to move road machinery.

In the light of modern research, it is stupid to ban amber lights for
bicycle use.

Andre Jute
Reformed petrol head
Car-free since 1992
Greener than thou!

On Feb 14, 1:22*pm, Klaus M. Müller wrote:
On 14 Feb., 01:20, Andre Jute wrote:

Here's an article that would feed those who oppose my method; it's by
an apparently very experienced police instructor.http://www.policedriving.com/article145.htmThosewho oppose effective
lights will see only that he says flashing lights cause "moth effect"
and other "confusion" accidents.

One interesting statement in the cited article is: Lot's of flashing
lights in the scene makes the situation unsafe.

This also sounds plausible for bright flashing LED lights on bicycles:
They may have some benefit in cases with a very very low number of
cyclists - but do more damage than benefit if cycling starts to be
more than 5% of the traffic. If it flashes everywhere, it takes lot of
brain power to know what is going on.

Yo, Klaus, if bicycle traffic hereabouts ever amounts to 5% of the
vehicles on any piece of road, I'd think I died and through some
bureaucratic oversight was admitted to heaven.

The reality is that there are very few bicyclists, that my bikes are
the only ones I've ever seen out on the roads which have hub dynamos,
and that only one other person I know has a battery light that
actually works.

When bicycle traffic gets up to five or ten per cent, cyclists will
have a voice and the law will be applied fairly between cyclists and
motorists, and as a consequence motorists will look out for cyclists,
as they do in The Netherlands, and flashing amber lights will no
longer be necessary. Hurry the day -- but don't do anything rash like
holding your breath.

Andre Jute
A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of explanation. --H.H.Munro
("Saki")(1870-1916)

Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
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for the tube audio constructor"
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containing vital gems of wisdom"
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On Feb 14, 4:46*am, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Feb 13, 7:20*pm, Andre Jute wrote:





As y'all know, in addition to steady dynamo lights (BUMM Cyo and
D'Toplight) on day and night, I also run white forward and red rear
flashing lights on day and night as attention attractors, as bike
identifiers.

Here's an article that would feed those who oppose my method; it's by
an apparently very experienced police instructor.http://www.policedriving.com/article145.htmThosewho oppose effective
lights will see only that he says flashing lights cause "moth effect"
and other "confusion" accidents. What I see is that he says amber
flashing lights should be used instead of red and white. I've known
about the downsides of red and white flashing lights all along but
after considerable though decided that I'd rather be seen by a
possibly confused driver than be hit by him because he didn't see me
at all.

I knew about amber lights already -- every well-trained psychologist
knows; you'll remember I searched for amber flashing lights and found
none available to me. (I tried to order some from a police supplier
who refused to supply me because i wasn't the police! I noticed he
since went out of business.)

I wonder if it is worth writing to someone like Dealz Extreme and
telling them that they could make a buck if one of their suppliers
would put an amber lene on one of the good flashing lights they sell.
Yo, Scharfie, don't you put yourself forward as some kind of a bicycle
light consultant with contacts?

*Andre Jute
*"The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument which must be
protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo-Pelayo
Ricart Medina

Hi there.

It's nice to see that studies seem to agree with my present rear
lighting setup. Many years ago I had one of those Belt Beacons Andrew
mentioned. It was a fantastic light but my bicycle was not considered
legal for night riding because it did not have either a red reflector
or a red light on the rear. I added a small red reflector to make it
legal.

Now I have four rear lights permanently attached to a Minoura T-bar
that is mounted under my rear rack. The two outboard lights are red
and I run them on solid model whilst the two inboard lights are amber
and I run them on blinking mode. This make the bicycle legal and the
amber lights are recognized as cautionary by just about everyone. I
run two lights just in case one goes out whilst I'm riding and because
the two inboard amber lights are very visible at long distances when
they are both on.

Cheers from Peter

Mmm. I have a Minoura T-bar in my junkbox...

Which amber lights do you use, Peter, and how do you power them?

Andre Jute
I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know who to ask.

On 14 Feb, 17:41, Andre Jute wrote:
On Feb 14, 1:04*pm, thirty-six wrote:



On 14 Feb, 04:46, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Feb 13, 7:20*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

As y'all know, in addition to steady dynamo lights (BUMM Cyo and
D'Toplight) on day and night, I also run white forward and red rear
flashing lights on day and night as attention attractors, as bike
identifiers.

Here's an article that would feed those who oppose my method; it's by
an apparently very experienced police instructor.http://www.policedriving.com/article...pposeeffective
lights will see only that he says flashing lights cause "moth effect"
and other "confusion" accidents. What I see is that he says amber
flashing lights should be used instead of red and white. I've known
about the downsides of red and white flashing lights all along but
after considerable though decided that I'd rather be seen by a
possibly confused driver than be hit by him because he didn't see me
at all.

I knew about amber lights already -- every well-trained psychologist
knows; you'll remember I searched for amber flashing lights and found
none available to me. (I tried to order some from a police supplier
who refused to supply me because i wasn't the police! I noticed he
since went out of business.)

I wonder if it is worth writing to someone like Dealz Extreme and
telling them that they could make a buck if one of their suppliers
would put an amber lene on one of the good flashing lights they sell.
Yo, Scharfie, don't you put yourself forward as some kind of a bicycle
light consultant with contacts?

*Andre Jute
*"The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument which must be
protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo-Pelayo
Ricart Medina

Hi there.

It's nice to see that studies seem to agree with my present rear
lighting setup. Many years ago I had one of those Belt Beacons Andrew
mentioned. It was a fantastic light but my bicycle was not considered
legal for night riding because it did not have either a red reflector
or a red light on the rear. I added a small red reflector to make it
legal.

Now I have four rear lights permanently attached to a Minoura T-bar
that is mounted under my rear rack. The two outboard lights are red
and I run them on solid model whilst the two inboard lights are amber
and I run them on blinking mode. This make the bicycle legal and the
amber lights are recognized as cautionary by just about everyone. I
run two lights just in case one goes out whilst I'm riding and because
the two inboard amber lights are very visible at long distances when
they are both on.

Cheers from Peter

In UK, amber flashing lights are suggested for users of mobility
scooters (powered wheelchair) when used on dual carriageways (treated
by motorists as motorways, some actually are, although not legally
defined as such) not subjected to a speed limit less than 50mph
(IIRC). *So, although not legal on a bicycle here the addition of a
tow truck beacon to ones luggage could be well worthwhile.

I thought the law was more general, that a flashing amber light is
compulsory on a slow-moving vehicle, like a tractor or one of those
huge low-loaders they use to move road machinery.

I think its only on derestricted dual carriageways and motorways that
they are a legal requirement. Wide loads are restricted to 30mph on
motorways which gives an official speed differential with cars of
40mph. All escorted oversize loads have warning beacons on whatever
road. It's this 40mph differential that I think it is worked by. So
if a dual carriageway is limited to 40mph, the big danger will be for
foot users on the carriageway. If the maximum is 50mph then scooter
users come in. Of course this also means cyclists, especially at the
higher limit of 60 or 70mph but no suggestion can be found.

In the light of modern research, it is stupid to ban amber lights for
bicycle use.

They're not banned, I think they are permitted as direction
indicators.