Why don't cyclists learn to use their brakes?

On 18/11/2011 03:34, Simon Mason wrote:
On Nov 17, 8:11 pm, dr6092 wrote:
On Nov 17, 5:32 pm, "Simon Mason"
wrote:

"dr6092" wrote in message
On Nov 17, 11:36 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
IPSGA if everyone used it there would be no crashes.
Crashing is very rare because they do most of the time. You need to
get a grasp of how probability works.
That involves having a grasp of mathematics though, which Cheerless
has a
poor grasp of. He did a survey in his town and found no cyclists at
all, but
yet sees invisible cyclists at night.

He also needs to stop assuming that the vast array of skills he gained
doing his cycle proficiency at walking pace round a car park make him
an expert. Cheerless and Clueless.

Was Cheerless actually a cyclist at some point in his life?
Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs as we say up north.

Most people rode a push bike as a child. Then most grew up...

--
Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a
legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster
University

On 17-Nov-2011, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

Doug wrote:
On 17-Nov-2011, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

Doug wrote:
On Nov 16, 8:31 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
"the driver cut in as he overtook me.
"I shouted out a warning and knocked on the roof of the car, but
the driver continued to cut in and struck the bike, causing me to
fall to the pavement."

If you have time enough to shout and bang on the car, then why on
Earth are you not keeping your hands on the handlebars and braking?

He sounds like a Simon, an accident waiting to happen

http://www.getwokingham.co.uk/news/s...ury_at_poor_dr...

You obviously have little experience of cycling.

When a cyclist is deliberately cut-up by a motorist it is without
warning and with little if any time to respond. Obviously the
cyclist above naturally assumed that banging on the roof of the car
would have produced a suitable response, such as slowing down.
Instead the motorist just continued to cut him up even more and
regardless thus then requiring the emergency braking.

Do you understand?

shouting and banging on a roof are not conducive to adequate braking
though,
are they?
If someone cuts you up, you take evasive action, such as swerving or
braking. Shouting does not really do it, does it? and as for
taking your

hand away from the most powerful brake, it beggars belief. His
injuries were caused by his own stupidity.

The thing I understand is that cyclists seem to think that
everything is someone else's fault. In 99 per cent of crashes there
is an element of two
vehicles doing something wrong, or one of them taking the stupid
idea that

But usually there is only one victim and that is the vulnerable road
user and there should be a duty of care shown by well-protected
drivers, instead of impatience and annoyance.

they are i'n the right' and not taking evasive action when they
should.

As I said previously, you have little experience of cycling and to be
cut up by a driver suddenly without warning.

Have you ever thought of gaining a little cycling experience before
posting more of your anti-cyclist rubbish here?


The difference is that I ride defensively, I do not rely on others to
look
out for me . I witness and sometimes experience people's bad driving on a

regular basis, yet don't crash into them, why is that? Perhaps it is
because I am careful and observant and alert , I take evasive action when
needed, I don't waste time waving my arms about or shouting, I deal with
the
situation. IPSGA if everyone used it there would be no crashes.
Every moment of every journey can be safely dealt with:
Information
Position
Speed
Gear
Accelleration

Looking at the original point of the post: the cyclist did not have the
information that a car was about to come past or its road position, so he
has fallen at the first hurdle. His position was evidently unsuitable or
he
would have had room to take evasive action, yet another fall. etc.

There is no possible protection against a driver who has lost control from
crashing into you, however you are placed and however you are riding.

Only by observing your cycling rules can some crashes be avoided but not
all. It is primarily the killer drivers who need the periodic training and
inspection, not their victims. When a driver has passed their
once-in-a-liftetime test they are free to kill regardless of any
deteriorating condition or human error while they are at the wheel of their
dangerous car-weapon.

Any error on the part of a cyclist is usually paid for either with their
lives or with their injuries while the driver in the crash remains unharmed
and free to crash again and again.

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

On Nov 17, 10:33 pm, Peter Keller wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:36:56 +0000, Mrcheerful wrote:

The difference is that I ride defensively, I do not rely on others to
look out for me .

Same here.
It is extremely rarely that I experience a "car coming out of nowhere".


On the other hand, Cheerless sees invisible bikes appearing out of nowhere
at night now.

--
Simon Mason

Doug wrote:
On 17-Nov-2011, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

Doug wrote:
On 17-Nov-2011, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

Doug wrote:
On Nov 16, 8:31 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
"the driver cut in as he overtook me.
"I shouted out a warning and knocked on the roof of the car, but
the driver continued to cut in and struck the bike, causing me to
fall to the pavement."

If you have time enough to shout and bang on the car, then why on
Earth are you not keeping your hands on the handlebars and
braking?

He sounds like a Simon, an accident waiting to happen

http://www.getwokingham.co.uk/news/s...ury_at_poor_dr...

You obviously have little experience of cycling.

When a cyclist is deliberately cut-up by a motorist it is without
warning and with little if any time to respond. Obviously the
cyclist above naturally assumed that banging on the roof of the
car would have produced a suitable response, such as slowing down.
Instead the motorist just continued to cut him up even more and
regardless thus then requiring the emergency braking.

Do you understand?

shouting and banging on a roof are not conducive to adequate
braking though,
are they?
If someone cuts you up, you take evasive action, such as swerving
or braking. Shouting does not really do it, does it? and as for
taking your

hand away from the most powerful brake, it beggars belief. His
injuries were caused by his own stupidity.

The thing I understand is that cyclists seem to think that
everything is someone else's fault. In 99 per cent of crashes
there is an element of two
vehicles doing something wrong, or one of them taking the stupid
idea that

But usually there is only one victim and that is the vulnerable road
user and there should be a duty of care shown by well-protected
drivers, instead of impatience and annoyance.

they are i'n the right' and not taking evasive action when they
should.

As I said previously, you have little experience of cycling and to
be cut up by a driver suddenly without warning.

Have you ever thought of gaining a little cycling experience before
posting more of your anti-cyclist rubbish here?


The difference is that I ride defensively, I do not rely on others
to look
out for me . I witness and sometimes experience people's bad
driving on a

regular basis, yet don't crash into them, why is that? Perhaps it is
because I am careful and observant and alert , I take evasive action
when needed, I don't waste time waving my arms about or shouting, I
deal with the
situation. IPSGA if everyone used it there would be no crashes.
Every moment of every journey can be safely dealt with:
Information
Position
Speed
Gear
Accelleration

Looking at the original point of the post: the cyclist did not have
the information that a car was about to come past or its road
position, so he has fallen at the first hurdle. His position was
evidently unsuitable or he
would have had room to take evasive action, yet another fall. etc.

There is no possible protection against a driver who has lost control
from crashing into you, however you are placed and however you are
riding.

There does not seem to be any suggestion that the car was out of control,
the cyclist certainly was.


Only by observing your cycling rules can some crashes be avoided but
not all. It is primarily the killer drivers who need the periodic
training and inspection, not their victims. When a driver has passed
their once-in-a-liftetime test they are free to kill regardless of any
deteriorating condition or human error while they are at the wheel of
their dangerous car-weapon.

Any error on the part of a cyclist is usually paid for either with
their lives or with their injuries while the driver in the crash
remains unharmed and free to crash again and again.


If by merely applying the brakes you can avoid a crash, then why not? What
is this: 'I am in the right, therefore you must avoid me' attitude?

People make mistakes when driving and riding, it happens, learn to ride and
drive defensively and most crashes can be avoided.

On Nov 18, 8:59*am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

If by merely applying the brakes you can avoid a crash, then why not?

Indeed, why not.

Doesn't mean that he didn't or that doing so must always be correct
and sufficient. Believing it from the armchair without relevant
experience does not make it so.

dr6092 wrote:
On Nov 18, 8:59 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

If by merely applying the brakes you can avoid a crash, then why not?

Indeed, why not.

Doesn't mean that he didn't or that doing so must always be correct
and sufficient. Believing it from the armchair without relevant
experience does not make it so.

How could he brake while banging on the car roof?

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:33:28 +0000, Dave - Cyclists VOR wrote:



Most people rode a push bike as a child. Then most grew up...

Thank God I never grew up by your definition. My push bike is just so
useful.



--
An oft-repeated lie is still a lie.

On 18-Nov-2011, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

Doug wrote:
On 17-Nov-2011, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

Doug wrote:
On 17-Nov-2011, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

Doug wrote:
On Nov 16, 8:31 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
"the driver cut in as he overtook me.
"I shouted out a warning and knocked on the roof of the car, but
the driver continued to cut in and struck the bike, causing me to
fall to the pavement."

If you have time enough to shout and bang on the car, then why on
Earth are you not keeping your hands on the handlebars and
braking?

He sounds like a Simon, an accident waiting to happen





http://www.getwokingham.co.uk/news/s...ury_at_poor_dr...

You obviously have little experience of cycling.

When a cyclist is deliberately cut-up by a motorist it is without
warning and with little if any time to respond. Obviously the
cyclist above naturally assumed that banging on the roof of the
car would have produced a suitable response, such as slowing down.
Instead the motorist just continued to cut him up even more and
regardless thus then requiring the emergency braking.

Do you understand?

shouting and banging on a roof are not conducive to adequate
braking though,
are they?
If someone cuts you up, you take evasive action, such as swerving
or braking. Shouting does not really do it, does it? and as for
taking your

hand away from the most powerful brake, it beggars belief. His
injuries were caused by his own stupidity.

The thing I understand is that cyclists seem to think that
everything is someone else's fault. In 99 per cent of crashes
there is an element of two
vehicles doing something wrong, or one of them taking the stupid
idea that

But usually there is only one victim and that is the vulnerable road
user and there should be a duty of care shown by well-protected
drivers, instead of impatience and annoyance.

they are i'n the right' and not taking evasive action when they
should.

As I said previously, you have little experience of cycling and to
be cut up by a driver suddenly without warning.

Have you ever thought of gaining a little cycling experience before
posting more of your anti-cyclist rubbish here?


The difference is that I ride defensively, I do not rely on others
to look
out for me . I witness and sometimes experience people's bad
driving on a

regular basis, yet don't crash into them, why is that? Perhaps it is
because I am careful and observant and alert , I take evasive action
when needed, I don't waste time waving my arms about or shouting, I
deal with the
situation. IPSGA if everyone used it there would be no crashes.
Every moment of every journey can be safely dealt with:
Information
Position
Speed
Gear
Accelleration

Looking at the original point of the post: the cyclist did not have
the information that a car was about to come past or its road
position, so he has fallen at the first hurdle. His position was
evidently unsuitable or he
would have had room to take evasive action, yet another fall. etc.

There is no possible protection against a driver who has lost control
from crashing into you, however you are placed and however you are
riding.

There does not seem to be any suggestion that the car was out of control,
the cyclist certainly was.


Only by observing your cycling rules can some crashes be avoided but
not all. It is primarily the killer drivers who need the periodic
training and inspection, not their victims. When a driver has passed
their once-in-a-liftetime test they are free to kill regardless of any
deteriorating condition or human error while they are at the wheel of
their dangerous car-weapon.

Any error on the part of a cyclist is usually paid for either with
their lives or with their injuries while the driver in the crash
remains unharmed and free to crash again and again.


If by merely applying the brakes you can avoid a crash, then why not?
What
is this: 'I am in the right, therefore you must avoid me' attitude?

Because there is only one victim and there should be a duty of care towards
them. A cyclist shouldn't have to slam on his brakes when a motorist cuts
him up or doors him. The fault lies solely with the motorist who should take
the blame.


People make mistakes when driving and riding, it happens, learn to ride
and
drive defensively and most crashes can be avoided.

This is about the crashes that can't be avoided so don't try and make
excuses for the killers and injurers of cyclists.

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

On 19-Nov-2011, Mick the Moderator wrote:

Message-ID:

It appears that the above post was an abusive or trolling messsage from
Doug, a known serial offender. We apologise for any distress this
obnoxious message may have caused, it has now been reported to

as a violation of their acceptable use policy. This does not preclude
additional
reports of this abuse, should you feel so motivated.

Thank you for your patience during this hopefully brief interruption to
your usenet pleasure.
--
Mick the Moderator
pp. the Hon. Nigel P. Smallpiece (CEO), Knotty Ash Enterprises plc,
England

Why don't you get a life, troll?

Doug.

Doug wrote:
On 18-Nov-2011, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

Doug wrote:
On 17-Nov-2011, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

Doug wrote:
On 17-Nov-2011, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

Doug wrote:
On Nov 16, 8:31 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
"the driver cut in as he overtook me.
"I shouted out a warning and knocked on the roof of the car,
but the driver continued to cut in and struck the bike,
causing me to fall to the pavement."

If you have time enough to shout and bang on the car, then why
on Earth are you not keeping your hands on the handlebars and
braking?

He sounds like a Simon, an accident waiting to happen





http://www.getwokingham.co.uk/news/s...ury_at_poor_dr...

You obviously have little experience of cycling.

When a cyclist is deliberately cut-up by a motorist it is
without warning and with little if any time to respond.
Obviously the cyclist above naturally assumed that banging on
the roof of the car would have produced a suitable response,
such as slowing down. Instead the motorist just continued to
cut him up even more and regardless thus then requiring the
emergency braking.

Do you understand?

shouting and banging on a roof are not conducive to adequate
braking though,
are they?
If someone cuts you up, you take evasive action, such as swerving
or braking. Shouting does not really do it, does it? and as for
taking your

hand away from the most powerful brake, it beggars belief. His
injuries were caused by his own stupidity.

The thing I understand is that cyclists seem to think that
everything is someone else's fault. In 99 per cent of crashes
there is an element of two
vehicles doing something wrong, or one of them taking the stupid
idea that

But usually there is only one victim and that is the vulnerable
road user and there should be a duty of care shown by
well-protected drivers, instead of impatience and annoyance.

they are i'n the right' and not taking evasive action when they
should.

As I said previously, you have little experience of cycling and to
be cut up by a driver suddenly without warning.

Have you ever thought of gaining a little cycling experience
before posting more of your anti-cyclist rubbish here?


The difference is that I ride defensively, I do not rely on others
to look
out for me . I witness and sometimes experience people's bad
driving on a

regular basis, yet don't crash into them, why is that? Perhaps it
is because I am careful and observant and alert , I take evasive
action when needed, I don't waste time waving my arms about or
shouting, I deal with the
situation. IPSGA if everyone used it there would be no crashes.
Every moment of every journey can be safely dealt with:
Information
Position
Speed
Gear
Accelleration

Looking at the original point of the post: the cyclist did not have
the information that a car was about to come past or its road
position, so he has fallen at the first hurdle. His position was
evidently unsuitable or he
would have had room to take evasive action, yet another fall.
etc.

There is no possible protection against a driver who has lost
control from crashing into you, however you are placed and however
you are riding.

There does not seem to be any suggestion that the car was out of
control, the cyclist certainly was.


Only by observing your cycling rules can some crashes be avoided but
not all. It is primarily the killer drivers who need the periodic
training and inspection, not their victims. When a driver has passed
their once-in-a-liftetime test they are free to kill regardless of
any deteriorating condition or human error while they are at the
wheel of their dangerous car-weapon.

Any error on the part of a cyclist is usually paid for either with
their lives or with their injuries while the driver in the crash
remains unharmed and free to crash again and again.


If by merely applying the brakes you can avoid a crash, then why not?
What
is this: 'I am in the right, therefore you must avoid me' attitude?

Because there is only one victim and there should be a duty of care
towards them. A cyclist shouldn't have to slam on his brakes when a
motorist cuts him up or doors him.

Yes, they should, the same way any responsible road user would.
If I was to drive around 'not braking or talking evasive action' every time
someone did something silly there would be a trail of dead cyclists and
damaged vehicles all over the country.

All the dozens of cyclists that are killed by uncertaking lorries have put
themselves in that position, usually deliberately, sometimes carelessly. It
is time that cyclists were made to take resonsibility for their own part in
road safety.