Low profile tires ?

On 01/06/2017 8:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/1/2017 6:52 PM, Duane wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 10:00:51 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2017 07:59:20 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 30/05/2017 8:46 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 10:17:41 -0400, Duane

wrote:

On 30/05/2017 9:35 AM, Andy wrote:
On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 9:30:58 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 7:58:59 PM UTC-7, Andy wrote:
I saw a bike today with the rim real close to the street.

I had a second look and saw black under the rim.

Do they make low profile tires for bikes ?

Andy

We're seeing progressively wider rims that end up pulling the
sidewalls of the tire out and the depth of the tire is
reduced. In
these cases you should use wider tires to obtain a normal
profile.

Interesting.

Andy


My HED Ardennes 23SL wheels are 23mm and are designed for 23mm
tires.
The current model Ardennses Plus are 25mm and as far as I know
they are
designed for 25mm tires.
http://www.hedwheels.com/hed-wheels-faq.asp

Sheldon published a table of rim width and usable tire widths.
--
Cheers,



Not much luck finding Sheldon's comments about HED technology.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width

--
Cheers,



I know about the charts. I meant the technology of HED wheels which
are
recommended to be used with tires the same size as the rims.

It is my understanding that the HED wheels you are talking about are
designed to run with a specific size tire solely for aerodynamic
reasons in order to minimize drag caused by where air coming off the
tire first reattaches.
https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04...s-wheel-sizes/


If your concern is the lowest possible drag then I assume that using
HED recommended tire sizes is important.
--
Cheers,


No, your understanding is not correct.
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/h...elset-clincher

Or google HED wheels.



I'm not sure about the correct accoutrements for rocking a HED style
statement. From that page:

"Which color scheme are these actually? The first picture shows the
print on the wheel as black with white outlines, the second picture
shows the text in full white?"



Lol. Well I think mine must be the old style as the decals are white on
black. Maybe I should trade them in for the new black w/white. Maybe
they will be faster.

What I like about these wheels is that I have had them for ~18000km with
0 maintenance. So they're relatively light but durable enough to ride
on Quebec roads and not even need truing.

Additionally, with a 23mm tire on a 23mm rim I can run them at 90 psi
instead of the typical 125 psi for a much more comfortable ride. And
with this setup, the way that the tire deforms changes the contact patch
making for better traction. And cornering is very good.

Also, John says that they're more aerodynamic or something...

On 02/06/2017 7:02 AM, Bertrand wrote:
Sheldon published a table of rim width and usable tire widths.

I know about the charts. I meant the technology of HED wheels which
are
recommended to be used with tires the same size as the rims.

It is my understanding that the HED wheels you are talking about are
designed to run with a specific size tire solely for aerodynamic
reasons in order to minimize drag caused by where air coming off the
tire first reattaches.
https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04...s-wheel-sizes/


If your concern is the lowest possible drag then I assume that using
HED recommended tire sizes is important.

A claim (by the wheel manufacturer) of wheel failure caused by using tires
that were too narrow for the rims:

http://www.velonews.com/2017/06/news...tirreno_439821


Pays to check the specs of your equipment.

On 6/2/2017 7:40 AM, Duane wrote:
On 01/06/2017 8:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/1/2017 6:52 PM, Duane wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 10:00:51 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2017 07:59:20 -0400, Duane

wrote:

On 30/05/2017 8:46 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 10:17:41 -0400, Duane

wrote:

On 30/05/2017 9:35 AM, Andy wrote:
On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 9:30:58 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 7:58:59 PM UTC-7,
Andy wrote:
I saw a bike today with the rim real close to
the street.

I had a second look and saw black under the rim.

Do they make low profile tires for bikes ?

Andy

We're seeing progressively wider rims that end up
pulling the
sidewalls of the tire out and the depth of the
tire is reduced. In
these cases you should use wider tires to obtain
a normal profile.

Interesting.

Andy


My HED Ardennes 23SL wheels are 23mm and are
designed for 23mm tires.
The current model Ardennses Plus are 25mm and as
far as I know they are
designed for 25mm tires.
http://www.hedwheels.com/hed-wheels-faq.asp

Sheldon published a table of rim width and usable
tire widths.
--
Cheers,



Not much luck finding Sheldon's comments about HED
technology.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width

--
Cheers,



I know about the charts. I meant the technology of HED
wheels which are
recommended to be used with tires the same size as the
rims.

It is my understanding that the HED wheels you are
talking about are
designed to run with a specific size tire solely for
aerodynamic
reasons in order to minimize drag caused by where air
coming off the
tire first reattaches.
https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04...s-wheel-sizes/


If your concern is the lowest possible drag then I
assume that using
HED recommended tire sizes is important.
--
Cheers,


No, your understanding is not correct.
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/h...elset-clincher


Or google HED wheels.



I'm not sure about the correct accoutrements for rocking a
HED style statement. From that page:

"Which color scheme are these actually? The first picture
shows the print on the wheel as black with white outlines,
the second picture shows the text in full white?"



Lol. Well I think mine must be the old style as the decals
are white on black. Maybe I should trade them in for the
new black w/white. Maybe they will be faster.

What I like about these wheels is that I have had them for
~18000km with 0 maintenance. So they're relatively light
but durable enough to ride on Quebec roads and not even need
truing.

Additionally, with a 23mm tire on a 23mm rim I can run them
at 90 psi instead of the typical 125 psi for a much more
comfortable ride. And with this setup, the way that the
tire deforms changes the contact patch making for better
traction. And cornering is very good.

Also, John says that they're more aerodynamic or something...

I'm not dissing HED product - they are a fine organization
with good wheels.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 02/06/2017 9:23 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/2/2017 7:40 AM, Duane wrote:
On 01/06/2017 8:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/1/2017 6:52 PM, Duane wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 10:00:51 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2017 07:59:20 -0400, Duane

wrote:

On 30/05/2017 8:46 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 10:17:41 -0400, Duane

wrote:

On 30/05/2017 9:35 AM, Andy wrote:
On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 9:30:58 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 7:58:59 PM UTC-7,
Andy wrote:
I saw a bike today with the rim real close to
the street.

I had a second look and saw black under the rim.

Do they make low profile tires for bikes ?

Andy

We're seeing progressively wider rims that end up
pulling the
sidewalls of the tire out and the depth of the
tire is reduced. In
these cases you should use wider tires to obtain
a normal profile.

Interesting.

Andy


My HED Ardennes 23SL wheels are 23mm and are
designed for 23mm tires.
The current model Ardennses Plus are 25mm and as
far as I know they are
designed for 25mm tires.
http://www.hedwheels.com/hed-wheels-faq.asp

Sheldon published a table of rim width and usable
tire widths.
--
Cheers,



Not much luck finding Sheldon's comments about HED
technology.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width

--
Cheers,



I know about the charts. I meant the technology of HED
wheels which are
recommended to be used with tires the same size as the
rims.

It is my understanding that the HED wheels you are
talking about are
designed to run with a specific size tire solely for
aerodynamic
reasons in order to minimize drag caused by where air
coming off the
tire first reattaches.
https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04...s-wheel-sizes/



If your concern is the lowest possible drag then I
assume that using
HED recommended tire sizes is important.
--
Cheers,


No, your understanding is not correct.
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/h...elset-clincher



Or google HED wheels.



I'm not sure about the correct accoutrements for rocking a
HED style statement. From that page:

"Which color scheme are these actually? The first picture
shows the print on the wheel as black with white outlines,
the second picture shows the text in full white?"



Lol. Well I think mine must be the old style as the decals
are white on black. Maybe I should trade them in for the
new black w/white. Maybe they will be faster.

What I like about these wheels is that I have had them for
~18000km with 0 maintenance. So they're relatively light
but durable enough to ride on Quebec roads and not even need
truing.

Additionally, with a 23mm tire on a 23mm rim I can run them
at 90 psi instead of the typical 125 psi for a much more
comfortable ride. And with this setup, the way that the
tire deforms changes the contact patch making for better
traction. And cornering is very good.

Also, John says that they're more aerodynamic or something...

I'm not dissing HED product - they are a fine organization with good
wheels.


Didn't mean to imply that you were.

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 2:58:52 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 23:52:19 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 10:00:51 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2017 07:59:20 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 30/05/2017 8:46 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 10:17:41 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 30/05/2017 9:35 AM, Andy wrote:
On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 9:30:58 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 7:58:59 PM UTC-7, Andy wrote:
I saw a bike today with the rim real close to the street.

I had a second look and saw black under the rim.

Do they make low profile tires for bikes ?

Andy

We're seeing progressively wider rims that end up pulling the
sidewalls of the tire out and the depth of the tire is reduced.. In
these cases you should use wider tires to obtain a normal profile.

Interesting.

Andy


My HED Ardennes 23SL wheels are 23mm and are designed for 23mm tires.
The current model Ardennses Plus are 25mm and as far as I know they are
designed for 25mm tires.
http://www.hedwheels.com/hed-wheels-faq.asp

Sheldon published a table of rim width and usable tire widths.
--
Cheers,



Not much luck finding Sheldon's comments about HED technology.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width

--
Cheers,



I know about the charts. I meant the technology of HED wheels which are
recommended to be used with tires the same size as the rims.

It is my understanding that the HED wheels you are talking about are
designed to run with a specific size tire solely for aerodynamic
reasons in order to minimize drag caused by where air coming off the
tire first reattaches.
https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04...s-wheel-sizes/

If your concern is the lowest possible drag then I assume that using
HED recommended tire sizes is important.
--
Cheers,


No, your understanding is not correct.
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/h...elset-clincher

Or google HED wheels.

Yup. I read the site and then I read
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/h...lset-clincher#
Which tells me that:

"If the tech sheet, marketing copy, and glowing reviews from major
publications aren't enough to sell you on the plush, efficient ride of
HED's Ardennes Plus SL Road Wheelset, then just head to your local
two-wheeled hotspot and count the number of times you see that
unmistakable branding roll by on everything from carbon race frames to
steel touring machines with wheelbases you can measure in meters. This
ubiquity is no accident."

Then I got to thinking that I've never seen a "HED's Ardennes Plus SL
Road Wheelset", never. So I just assigned the claims for HED to the
container labeled "Outrageous and unproven claims".
--
Cheers,

John B.



Whatever. If you want to think people use the same tire width as the rim
width because of some aero fettish, that's up to you.

As for what you've seen I can't argue but they're popular here on Québec
roads.

HED has made their name making TT wheels. If they make something else you have to take it for what it is - the same as everyone else's. Except the deep HED rims take extra-long innertube fillers which double the cost of the innertubes.

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 4:02:15 AM UTC-7, Bertrand wrote:
Sheldon published a table of rim width and usable tire widths.

I know about the charts. I meant the technology of HED wheels which are
recommended to be used with tires the same size as the rims.

It is my understanding that the HED wheels you are talking about are
designed to run with a specific size tire solely for aerodynamic
reasons in order to minimize drag caused by where air coming off the
tire first reattaches.
https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04...s-wheel-sizes/

If your concern is the lowest possible drag then I assume that using
HED recommended tire sizes is important.

A claim (by the wheel manufacturer) of wheel failure caused by using tires
that were too narrow for the rims:

http://www.velonews.com/2017/06/news...tirreno_439821

To maximize the aerodynamics of an aero wheelset you have to have tires that are 2 mm wider than the wheel. This has been shown in many wind tunnel tests. And why aero wheels used to have narrow rims.

On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:40:45 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 01/06/2017 8:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/1/2017 6:52 PM, Duane wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 10:00:51 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2017 07:59:20 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 30/05/2017 8:46 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 10:17:41 -0400, Duane

wrote:

On 30/05/2017 9:35 AM, Andy wrote:
On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 9:30:58 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 7:58:59 PM UTC-7, Andy wrote:
I saw a bike today with the rim real close to the street.

I had a second look and saw black under the rim.

Do they make low profile tires for bikes ?

Andy

We're seeing progressively wider rims that end up pulling the
sidewalls of the tire out and the depth of the tire is
reduced. In
these cases you should use wider tires to obtain a normal
profile.

Interesting.

Andy


My HED Ardennes 23SL wheels are 23mm and are designed for 23mm
tires.
The current model Ardennses Plus are 25mm and as far as I know
they are
designed for 25mm tires.
http://www.hedwheels.com/hed-wheels-faq.asp

Sheldon published a table of rim width and usable tire widths.
--
Cheers,



Not much luck finding Sheldon's comments about HED technology.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width

--
Cheers,



I know about the charts. I meant the technology of HED wheels which
are
recommended to be used with tires the same size as the rims.

It is my understanding that the HED wheels you are talking about are
designed to run with a specific size tire solely for aerodynamic
reasons in order to minimize drag caused by where air coming off the
tire first reattaches.
https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04...s-wheel-sizes/


If your concern is the lowest possible drag then I assume that using
HED recommended tire sizes is important.
--
Cheers,


No, your understanding is not correct.
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/h...elset-clincher

Or google HED wheels.



I'm not sure about the correct accoutrements for rocking a HED style
statement. From that page:

"Which color scheme are these actually? The first picture shows the
print on the wheel as black with white outlines, the second picture
shows the text in full white?"



Lol. Well I think mine must be the old style as the decals are white on
black. Maybe I should trade them in for the new black w/white. Maybe
they will be faster.

What I like about these wheels is that I have had them for ~18000km with
0 maintenance. So they're relatively light but durable enough to ride
on Quebec roads and not even need truing.

Additionally, with a 23mm tire on a 23mm rim I can run them at 90 psi
instead of the typical 125 psi for a much more comfortable ride. And
with this setup, the way that the tire deforms changes the contact patch
making for better traction. And cornering is very good.

Also, John says that they're more aerodynamic or something...

Actually I didn't say it, some bloke that writes "for cyclists who
want to know, but don't have the time to do all the research and
comparisons"..., I merely quoted from his 5,573 word article on
wheels.

In closing he states: "here's my take on what mix of comfort, speed
and handling you can expect with different tire-rim combinations...
A 23C tire on a 19C or narrower wheel best speed. If you've chosen
this set-up, crits, road races or TTs and triathlons are probably your
passion, deeper aero wheels are probably your preferred hoops and
comfort is further down your list of what matters..."
--
Cheers,

John B.