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Do bicycles and cars mix?



 
 
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  #61  
Old September 10th 03, 02:37 PM
zumbrunndbla
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Default Do bicycles and cars mix?

Chris Rust wrote:
If you don't understand statistics don't quote them.
The debate is about accidents to and deaths of cyclists and the
original comment implied that a comparison could be made between the
RATEs of deaths to cyclists in US and EU (which is the only useful way
to look at this)
However the statistics in the link supplied refer to ALL road accidents
and the figures are given as a proportion of total deaths in the country
from all causes. This is completely irrelevant. The only useful
statistic would be one which related cycling deaths or accidents to
bicycle usage (eg miles or hours travelled).
This is a serious question of public policy. In some parts of Germany
where (notional) cycle tracks exist cyclists are banned from the highway
leaving them with no effective route (eg if the cycle path is shared
with pedestrians meaning they can't keep up a decent pace).




Two questions about this:

Statistics: in order to have a meaningful statistics you need to know
how many hours or miles of total bicycle use occurr per year. I have not
the foggiest notion where statisticians can get an even remotely
accurate estimate of this figure. Given this, I mistrust all statistics
about bicycle accident risk: garbage in, garbage out. Any enlightenment
by experts is welcome on this point.

Germany: are you sure you got your facts correct here? I am not aware of
a general highway ban for bicycles other than on freeways (like almost
everywhere else). However there may be specific pieces of road banned to
bicycles, mostly in response to accidents.

I would also submit that more often than not boneheaded political
decisions are a result of (innocent) ignorance and not of spite,
particularly on the local level. Polite (but concise) language is the
tool to address this - at least in the first few rounds. Assuming hidden
agendas (that are most probably non existent) will not help.



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  #62  
Old September 10th 03, 03:12 PM
Chris Rust
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Default Do bicycles and cars mix?

Originally posted by zumbrunndbla Two questions about this:

Statistics: in order to have a meaningful statistics you need to know
how many hours or miles of total bicycle use occurr per year. I have
not the foggiest notion where statisticians can get an even remotely
accurate estimate of this figure. Given this, I mistrust all statistics
about bicycle accident risk: garbage in, garbage out. Any enlightenment
by experts is welcome on this point.


I'm not an expert but it seems to be normal to quote accident figures
for airline passenger miles etc. I think a competent social scientist
would be able to question a sample of cyclists to find out typical
patterns of behaviour which would underpin the statistics. That's the
only way that a lot of the data we rely on can be discovered. It's a
question of size of sample and quality of questioning.

Germany: are you sure you got your facts correct here?


The report I saw was of local restrictions introduced where an
alternative cycle path had been provided and the problem was mainly
because the alternative was not really comparable, eg shared use of
sidewalk which is hardly suitable for a training run, commuter or a
tourist with miles to cover. I don't have any more details but perhaps
others will be able to clarify this.

I would also submit that more often than not boneheaded political
decisions are a result of (innocent) ignorance and not of spite,
particularly on the local level. Polite (but concise) language is the
tool to address this - at least in the first few rounds.


I used to think that too. Then I found that a cornered politician
(cornered by the evidence, not by me) would resort to any specious
argument to bludgeon his way out of a tight spot, and be happy to shout
you down in the process. Of course our national leaders wouldn't behave
that way but the local talent can be of variable quality.

best wishes from Sheffield (not the home of the politician referred to
above) Chris



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  #63  
Old September 13th 03, 03:24 AM
bgaudet0801
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Default Do bicycles and cars mix?


"Chris Rust" wrote in message
...
[...]
However the statistics in the link supplied refer to ALL road accidents
and the figures are given as a proportion of total deaths in the country
from all causes. This is completely irrelevant. The only useful
statistic would be one which related cycling deaths or accidents to
bicycle usage (eg miles or hours travelled).


My two cents: I think the best measure is per time unit. It just seems
logical to compare accidents according to the same time period. If an
auto-addict travels for 2 hours at 100 kph and the virtuous cyclist travels
for 10 hours at 20 kph, then the risk should be calculated on the length of
time not distance traveled.

--
'Sell your sin
Just cash in' -Jewell


 




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