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#61
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Do bicycles and cars mix?
Chris Rust wrote:
If you don't understand statistics don't quote them. The debate is about accidents to and deaths of cyclists and the original comment implied that a comparison could be made between the RATEs of deaths to cyclists in US and EU (which is the only useful way to look at this) However the statistics in the link supplied refer to ALL road accidents and the figures are given as a proportion of total deaths in the country from all causes. This is completely irrelevant. The only useful statistic would be one which related cycling deaths or accidents to bicycle usage (eg miles or hours travelled). This is a serious question of public policy. In some parts of Germany where (notional) cycle tracks exist cyclists are banned from the highway leaving them with no effective route (eg if the cycle path is shared with pedestrians meaning they can't keep up a decent pace). Two questions about this: Statistics: in order to have a meaningful statistics you need to know how many hours or miles of total bicycle use occurr per year. I have not the foggiest notion where statisticians can get an even remotely accurate estimate of this figure. Given this, I mistrust all statistics about bicycle accident risk: garbage in, garbage out. Any enlightenment by experts is welcome on this point. Germany: are you sure you got your facts correct here? I am not aware of a general highway ban for bicycles other than on freeways (like almost everywhere else). However there may be specific pieces of road banned to bicycles, mostly in response to accidents. I would also submit that more often than not boneheaded political decisions are a result of (innocent) ignorance and not of spite, particularly on the local level. Polite (but concise) language is the tool to address this - at least in the first few rounds. Assuming hidden agendas (that are most probably non existent) will not help. -- -------------------------- Posted via cyclingforums.com http://www.cyclingforums.com |
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#62
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Do bicycles and cars mix?
Originally posted by zumbrunndbla Two questions about this:
Statistics: in order to have a meaningful statistics you need to know how many hours or miles of total bicycle use occurr per year. I have not the foggiest notion where statisticians can get an even remotely accurate estimate of this figure. Given this, I mistrust all statistics about bicycle accident risk: garbage in, garbage out. Any enlightenment by experts is welcome on this point. I'm not an expert but it seems to be normal to quote accident figures for airline passenger miles etc. I think a competent social scientist would be able to question a sample of cyclists to find out typical patterns of behaviour which would underpin the statistics. That's the only way that a lot of the data we rely on can be discovered. It's a question of size of sample and quality of questioning. Germany: are you sure you got your facts correct here? The report I saw was of local restrictions introduced where an alternative cycle path had been provided and the problem was mainly because the alternative was not really comparable, eg shared use of sidewalk which is hardly suitable for a training run, commuter or a tourist with miles to cover. I don't have any more details but perhaps others will be able to clarify this. I would also submit that more often than not boneheaded political decisions are a result of (innocent) ignorance and not of spite, particularly on the local level. Polite (but concise) language is the tool to address this - at least in the first few rounds. I used to think that too. Then I found that a cornered politician (cornered by the evidence, not by me) would resort to any specious argument to bludgeon his way out of a tight spot, and be happy to shout you down in the process. Of course our national leaders wouldn't behave that way but the local talent can be of variable quality. best wishes from Sheffield (not the home of the politician referred to above) Chris -- -------------------------- Posted via cyclingforums.com http://www.cyclingforums.com |
#63
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Do bicycles and cars mix?
"Chris Rust" wrote in message ... [...] However the statistics in the link supplied refer to ALL road accidents and the figures are given as a proportion of total deaths in the country from all causes. This is completely irrelevant. The only useful statistic would be one which related cycling deaths or accidents to bicycle usage (eg miles or hours travelled). My two cents: I think the best measure is per time unit. It just seems logical to compare accidents according to the same time period. If an auto-addict travels for 2 hours at 100 kph and the virtuous cyclist travels for 10 hours at 20 kph, then the risk should be calculated on the length of time not distance traveled. -- 'Sell your sin Just cash in' -Jewell |
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