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spoke key wire gauge



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 30th 17, 05:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 318
Default spoke key wire gauge

What are the digits on the spoke key?

It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes
I see.

Here is what units(1) has in
/usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none
of those match my spoke key. (?)

Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be
used on MC spokes? Or on those bikes they have in
India to do transport...

# Wire Gauge
#
# This area is a nightmare with huge charts of wire gauge diameters
# that usually have no clear origin. There are at least 5 competing wire gauge
# systems to add to the confusion. The use of wire gauge is related to the
# manufacturing method: a metal rod is heated and drawn through a hole. The
# size change can't be too big. To get smaller wires, the process is repeated
# with a series of smaller holes. Generally larger gauges mean smaller wires.
# The gauges often have values such as "00" and "000" which are larger sizes
# than simply "0" gauge. In the tables that appear below, these gauges must be
# specified as negative numbers (e.g. "00" is -1, "000" is -2, etc).
# Alternatively, you can use the following units:
#

g00 (-1)
g000 (-2)
g0000 (-3)
g00000 (-4)
g000000 (-5)
g0000000 (-6)

# American Wire Gauge (AWG) or Brown & Sharpe Gauge appears to be the most
# important gauge. ASTM B-258 specifies that this gauge is based on geometric
# interpolation between gauge 0000, which is 0.46 inches exactly, and gauge 36
# which is 0.005 inches exactly. Therefore, the diameter in inches of a wire
# is given by the formula 1|200 92^((36-g)/39). Note that 92^(1/39) is close
# to 2^(1/6), so diameter is approximately halved for every 6 gauges. For the
# repeated zero values, use negative numbers in the formula. The same document
# also specifies rounding rules which seem to be ignored by makers of tables.
# Gauges up to 44 are to be specified with up to 4 significant figures, but no
# closer than 0.0001 inch. Gauges from 44 to 56 are to be rounded to the
# nearest 0.00001 inch.
#
# In addition to being used to measure wire thickness, this gauge is used to
# measure the thickness of sheets of aluminum, copper, and most metals other
# than steel, iron and zinc.

wiregauge(g) units=[1;m] range=(0,) \
1|200 92^((36+(-g))/39) in; 36+(-39)ln(200 wiregauge/in)/ln(92)
awg() wiregauge

# Next we have the SWG, the Imperial or British Standard Wire Gauge. This one
# is piecewise linear. It was used for aluminum sheets.

brwiregauge[in] \
-6 0.5 \
-5 0.464 \
-3 0.4 \
-2 0.372 \
3 0.252 \
6 0.192 \
10 0.128 \
14 0.08 \
19 0.04 \
23 0.024 \
26 0.018 \
28 0.0148 \
30 0.0124 \
39 0.0052 \
49 0.0012 \
50 0.001

# The following is from the Appendix to ASTM B 258
#
# For example, in U.S. gage, the standard for sheet metal is based on the
# weight of the metal, not on the thickness. 16-gage is listed as
# approximately .0625 inch thick and 40 ounces per square foot (the original
# standard was based on wrought iron at .2778 pounds per cubic inch; steel
# has almost entirely superseded wrought iron for sheet use, at .2833 pounds
# per cubic inch). Smaller numbers refer to greater thickness. There is no
# formula for converting gage to thickness or weight.
#
# It's rather unclear from the passage above whether the plate gauge values are
# therefore wrong if steel is being used. Reference [15] states that steel is
# in fact measured using this gauge (under the name Manufacturers' Standard
# Gauge) with a density of 501.84 lb/ft3 = 0.2904 lb/in3 used for steel.
# But this doesn't seem to be the correct density of steel (.2833 lb/in3 is
# closer).
#
# This gauge was established in 1893 for purposes of taxation.

# Old plate gauge for iron

plategauge[(oz/ft^2)/(480*lb/ft^3)] \
-5 300 \
1 180 \
14 50 \
16 40 \
17 36 \
20 24 \
26 12 \
31 7 \
36 4.5 \
38 4

# Manufacturers Standard Gage

stdgauge[(oz/ft^2)/(501.84*lb/ft^3)] \
-5 300 \
1 180 \
14 50 \
16 40 \
17 36 \
20 24 \
26 12 \
31 7 \
36 4.5 \
38 4

# A special gauge is used for zinc sheet metal. Notice that larger gauges
# indicate thicker sheets.

zincgauge[in] \
1 0.002 \
10 0.02 \
15 0.04 \
19 0.06 \
23 0.1 \
24 0.125 \
27 0.5 \
28 1

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Ads
  #2  
Old May 30th 17, 05:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default spoke key wire gauge

On 5/30/2017 11:05 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
What are the digits on the spoke key?

It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes
I see.

Here is what units(1) has in
/usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none
of those match my spoke key. (?)

Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be
used on MC spokes? Or on those bikes they have in
India to do transport...

# Wire Gauge
#
# This area is a nightmare with huge charts of wire gauge diameters
# that usually have no clear origin. There are at least 5 competing wire gauge
# systems to add to the confusion. The use of wire gauge is related to the
# manufacturing method: a metal rod is heated and drawn through a hole. The
# size change can't be too big. To get smaller wires, the process is repeated
# with a series of smaller holes. Generally larger gauges mean smaller wires.
# The gauges often have values such as "00" and "000" which are larger sizes
# than simply "0" gauge. In the tables that appear below, these gauges must be
# specified as negative numbers (e.g. "00" is -1, "000" is -2, etc).
# Alternatively, you can use the following units:
#

g00 (-1)
g000 (-2)
g0000 (-3)
g00000 (-4)
g000000 (-5)
g0000000 (-6)

# American Wire Gauge (AWG) or Brown & Sharpe Gauge appears to be the most
# important gauge. ASTM B-258 specifies that this gauge is based on geometric
# interpolation between gauge 0000, which is 0.46 inches exactly, and gauge 36
# which is 0.005 inches exactly. Therefore, the diameter in inches of a wire
# is given by the formula 1|200 92^((36-g)/39). Note that 92^(1/39) is close
# to 2^(1/6), so diameter is approximately halved for every 6 gauges. For the
# repeated zero values, use negative numbers in the formula. The same document
# also specifies rounding rules which seem to be ignored by makers of tables.
# Gauges up to 44 are to be specified with up to 4 significant figures, but no
# closer than 0.0001 inch. Gauges from 44 to 56 are to be rounded to the
# nearest 0.00001 inch.
#
# In addition to being used to measure wire thickness, this gauge is used to
# measure the thickness of sheets of aluminum, copper, and most metals other
# than steel, iron and zinc.

wiregauge(g) units=[1;m] range=(0,) \
1|200 92^((36+(-g))/39) in; 36+(-39)ln(200 wiregauge/in)/ln(92)
awg() wiregauge

# Next we have the SWG, the Imperial or British Standard Wire Gauge. This one
# is piecewise linear. It was used for aluminum sheets.

brwiregauge[in] \
-6 0.5 \
-5 0.464 \
-3 0.4 \
-2 0.372 \
3 0.252 \
6 0.192 \
10 0.128 \
14 0.08 \
19 0.04 \
23 0.024 \
26 0.018 \
28 0.0148 \
30 0.0124 \
39 0.0052 \
49 0.0012 \
50 0.001

# The following is from the Appendix to ASTM B 258
#
# For example, in U.S. gage, the standard for sheet metal is based on the
# weight of the metal, not on the thickness. 16-gage is listed as
# approximately .0625 inch thick and 40 ounces per square foot (the original
# standard was based on wrought iron at .2778 pounds per cubic inch; steel
# has almost entirely superseded wrought iron for sheet use, at .2833 pounds
# per cubic inch). Smaller numbers refer to greater thickness. There is no
# formula for converting gage to thickness or weight.
#
# It's rather unclear from the passage above whether the plate gauge values are
# therefore wrong if steel is being used. Reference [15] states that steel is
# in fact measured using this gauge (under the name Manufacturers' Standard
# Gauge) with a density of 501.84 lb/ft3 = 0.2904 lb/in3 used for steel.
# But this doesn't seem to be the correct density of steel (.2833 lb/in3 is
# closer).
#
# This gauge was established in 1893 for purposes of taxation.

# Old plate gauge for iron

plategauge[(oz/ft^2)/(480*lb/ft^3)] \
-5 300 \
1 180 \
14 50 \
16 40 \
17 36 \
20 24 \
26 12 \
31 7 \
36 4.5 \
38 4

# Manufacturers Standard Gage

stdgauge[(oz/ft^2)/(501.84*lb/ft^3)] \
-5 300 \
1 180 \
14 50 \
16 40 \
17 36 \
20 24 \
26 12 \
31 7 \
36 4.5 \
38 4

# A special gauge is used for zinc sheet metal. Notice that larger gauges
# indicate thicker sheets.

zincgauge[in] \
1 0.002 \
10 0.02 \
15 0.04 \
19 0.06 \
23 0.1 \
24 0.125 \
27 0.5 \
28 1



It's not relevant that 14g spokes are nominally 0.080 inches.
What is relevant is that standard spoke nipples for both 14g
and 15g are nominally 0.130 inches on the flats. Early
Japanese standard for nipples was 0.136 inches, a tighter
fit wrench (very helpful for high quality builds with higher
spoke tension) is 0.127 inches.

Then the various fat spoke formats such as 0.156 inches for
13g nipples and the hefty 12g which I can't recall
(somewhere around 0.19 inches-ish)

Regarding plate and wire gauge systems, we remember Sheldon
Brown's quip that standards are wonderful so we ought to
have a lot of them!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #3  
Old May 30th 17, 07:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 318
Default spoke key wire gauge

AMuzi writes:

It's not relevant that 14g spokes are nominally
0.080 inches. What is relevant is that standard
spoke nipples for both 14g and 15g are nominally
0.130 inches on the flats. Early Japanese standard
for nipples was 0.136 inches, a tighter fit wrench
(very helpful for high quality builds with higher
spoke tension) is 0.127 inches.


How does the gauge system work and why does it get
smaller with higher numbers? Is it like the "P" system
for sandpapers? Not really, right?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #4  
Old May 30th 17, 07:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default spoke key wire gauge

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 11:14:47 AM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi writes:

It's not relevant that 14g spokes are nominally
0.080 inches. What is relevant is that standard
spoke nipples for both 14g and 15g are nominally
0.130 inches on the flats. Early Japanese standard
for nipples was 0.136 inches, a tighter fit wrench
(very helpful for high quality builds with higher
spoke tension) is 0.127 inches.


How does the gauge system work and why does it get
smaller with higher numbers? Is it like the "P" system
for sandpapers? Not really, right?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573


http://www.learningaboutelectronics....Wire-gauge.php
  #6  
Old May 30th 17, 08:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 250
Default spoke key wire gauge



"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
What are the digits on the spoke key?

It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes
I see.

Here is what units(1) has in
/usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none
of those match my spoke key. (?)

Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be
used on MC spokes?


Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very heavy gauge
spokes.

  #7  
Old May 30th 17, 08:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default spoke key wire gauge

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 11:52:18 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/30/2017 1:23 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 11:14:47 AM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi writes:

It's not relevant that 14g spokes are nominally
0.080 inches. What is relevant is that standard
spoke nipples for both 14g and 15g are nominally
0.130 inches on the flats. Early Japanese standard
for nipples was 0.136 inches, a tighter fit wrench
(very helpful for high quality builds with higher
spoke tension) is 0.127 inches.

How does the gauge system work and why does it get
smaller with higher numbers? Is it like the "P" system
for sandpapers? Not really, right?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

http://www.learningaboutelectronics....Wire-gauge.php


and more specific to bicycle spokes;
http://www.wheelfanatyk.com/blog/for-spoke-nerds-only/


This paper effectively tells us why Campagnolo wheels use straight spokes on their higher end wheels. This would give 90% less spoke failures. But in my experience it didn't. I suppose they offset the reliability by using finer spokes to reduce weight. I never measured the spokes but on sight they didn't seem to be thinner than normal.
  #8  
Old May 30th 17, 09:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default spoke key wire gauge

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:08:09 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
What are the digits on the spoke key?

It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes
I see.

Here is what units(1) has in
/usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none
of those match my spoke key. (?)

Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be
used on MC spokes?


Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very heavy gauge
spokes.


If you mean the Dunlop wheels found on Jaguar of a certain age, and Borrani on Maserati of the same age, those are sturdy precisely because of their short spokes. If the car is neglected, though, any corrosion in those wheels can be either expensive or lethal, you choose which. Wire spoke wheels on cars (the real kind, as opposed the faux spoked on some American pimpmobiles) went out for a good reason: the steel and magnesium, and later aluminum, wheels that replaced them were both lighter and stiffer. If you've ever changed the wheel on an XK150 or 6-cylinder Maserati, you'll remember its awkward weight unfavorably. Even the "small" and narrow MG TC wheel was an unwieldy thing to handle compared to the disc on the TD.

Andre Jute
My knuckles bear the scars still
  #9  
Old May 31st 17, 01:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default spoke key wire gauge

On Tue, 30 May 2017 20:14:44 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

AMuzi writes:

It's not relevant that 14g spokes are nominally
0.080 inches. What is relevant is that standard
spoke nipples for both 14g and 15g are nominally
0.130 inches on the flats. Early Japanese standard
for nipples was 0.136 inches, a tighter fit wrench
(very helpful for high quality builds with higher
spoke tension) is 0.127 inches.


How does the gauge system work and why does it get
smaller with higher numbers? Is it like the "P" system
for sandpapers? Not really, right?


Remember that a measuring, or gage, system is simply a method of
keeping track of something. In some countries a horse is measured as a
number of hands high., in other countries they are so many centimeters
high. Either system works perfectly well,,, for those who are failure
with it.

The traditional top tube diameter on a bicycle was 1 inch in the U.S.
and 25.4mm in Europe :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #10  
Old May 31st 17, 02:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 318
Default spoke key wire gauge

John B. writes:

Remember that a measuring, or gage, system is simply
a method of keeping track of something. In some
countries a horse is measured as a number of hands
high., in other countries they are so many
centimeters high. Either system works perfectly
well,,, for those who are failure with it.

The traditional top tube diameter on a bicycle was 1
inch in the U.S. and 25.4mm in Europe :-)


Well, the English system makes sense because they were
the pioneers of industrialism and whatever embryo of
"systematic craft" that was before it, and it is
natural they used the body as the first "tool" to
measure stuff.

OK, so then the super-rational French who lagged just
a bit behind had the advantage of seeing where all
this lead, while still not having invested too much
into it mentally to be unable to let it go. So their
systems are better if compared as systems, but it
makes sense it appeared not as the first attempt.

Here, we also have tons of units that relate to the
body. Not everyone even knows of them anymore and no
one works by them. It appears our "thumbs" are somewhat
bigger than those in England

And I've heard stories of joint Swedish-Norwegian (or
Norwegian-Swedish) projects when the carpenters almost
came to blows because nothing they did checked out.
What had happened, the Swedish and Norwegian inches
were very close to, but not entirely identical!
So everyone laughed and then the carpenters were happy
ever after. Probably an invented story, but doesn't
seem entirely impossible.

We also have an expression "det var som sjutton" which
is "I'd be damned", only literally it is "that was
like 17", and the origin is the 16ths of an inch.
If it amounts to 17 rather than 16 something isn't
right

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
 




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