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  #1  
Old December 23rd 18, 12:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 805
Default Bicyycle fairing


Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why
fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's
composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag
calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in
bicycle speed.
See: https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php
or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo

Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the
majority of bike sales are not for racing.


cheers,

John B.


Ads
  #2  
Old December 23rd 18, 05:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Bicyycle fairing

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 6:36:19 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why
fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's
composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag
calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in
bicycle speed.
See: https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php
or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo

Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the
majority of bike sales are not for racing.


https://www.zzipper.com/

I had one for quite a few years. It just wasn't worth the trouble for
me.

- Frank Krygowski
  #3  
Old December 23rd 18, 06:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Bicyycle fairing

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:14:19 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 6:36:19 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why
fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's
composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag
calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in
bicycle speed.
See: https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php
or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo

Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the
majority of bike sales are not for racing.


https://www.zzipper.com/

I had one for quite a few years. It just wasn't worth the trouble for
me.

- Frank Krygowski


I remember reading, some time ago, about a bloke in England that
commuted a fairly long distance to work each day. It turned out that
he "rode" a completely enclosed and streamlined recumbent bike and,
the article said, he was averaging 30 mph.

cheers,

John B.


  #4  
Old December 23rd 18, 08:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Bicyycle fairing

On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 6:55:07 AM UTC+1, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:14:19 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 6:36:19 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why
fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's
composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag
calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in
bicycle speed.
See: https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php
or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo

Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the
majority of bike sales are not for racing.


https://www.zzipper.com/

I had one for quite a few years. It just wasn't worth the trouble for
me.

- Frank Krygowski


I remember reading, some time ago, about a bloke in England that
commuted a fairly long distance to work each day. It turned out that
he "rode" a completely enclosed and streamlined recumbent bike and,
the article said, he was averaging 30 mph.

cheers,

John B.


I have a colleague who does that but he also says that it is quite impractical in traffic and warm in the summer.

Lou
  #5  
Old December 23rd 18, 11:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Bicyycle fairing

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 23:58:13 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 6:55:07 AM UTC+1, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:14:19 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 6:36:19 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why
fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's
composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag
calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in
bicycle speed.
See:
https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php
or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo

Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the
majority of bike sales are not for racing.

https://www.zzipper.com/

I had one for quite a few years. It just wasn't worth the trouble for
me.

- Frank Krygowski


I remember reading, some time ago, about a bloke in England that
commuted a fairly long distance to work each day. It turned out that
he "rode" a completely enclosed and streamlined recumbent bike and,
the article said, he was averaging 30 mph.

cheers,

John B.


I have a colleague who does that but he also says that it is quite impractical in traffic and warm in the summer.

Lou


It was an article in a magazine, I don't remember what one. I used to
be an avid reader of bike magazines but in recent years they seem to
be almost totally written as advertisement for one thing or another.

cheers,

John B.


  #6  
Old December 24th 18, 11:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Cimperman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 147
Default Bicyycle fairing

On 12/22/2018 11:55 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:14:19 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 6:36:19 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why
fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's
composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag
calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in
bicycle speed.
See: https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php
or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo

Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the
majority of bike sales are not for racing.


https://www.zzipper.com/

I had one for quite a few years. It just wasn't worth the trouble for
me.

- Frank Krygowski


I remember reading, some time ago, about a bloke in England that
commuted a fairly long distance to work each day. It turned out that
he "rode" a completely enclosed and streamlined recumbent bike and,
the article said, he was averaging 30 mph.

cheers,

John B.



Some years back (I guess in the 1980's) there was still a couple IHPVA
teams competing with fully-faired upright bicycles. I recall the old
photos but don't know the names. Despite a several-years-long attempt,
they generally were not competitive. This would be back around the
Versatron Vector days.

This link shows an older example, but one that has the same general shape:
http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/38-v11n3-1994.pdf (the image on page
7 of the pdf)
--except the modern ones were ribbed like an airplane rudder and covered
with clear plastic to improve rider visibility. Often the only two
modifications to the underlying bicycles was chopped and narrowed drop
bars and a BIG chainring (80T or so).

-Of course--unlike most other sanctioned competitions--the IHPVA does
not tell you what kind of bicycle you can bring.

----

The general opinion even among velomobile riders is that using any
fully-faired, two-wheel bicycle on the street is still a very daring
feat. The Battle Mountain bikes are totally impractical due to very poor
outward visibility (if they have a windshield at all, that is) and they
require assistance getting in and out, and starting and stopping.

Velomobiles (trikes) are common but so far I have heard of only one
company/person building fully-faired, 2-wheel recumbents that were
intended for street use. Speedbikes.ch used to offer the
Peregrin-on-Birk model for around $35K (USD) but they don't list it now.

https://www.google.com/search?q=peregrin+on+birk

Also in just the last few years there was a guy on recumbents.com who
was toying around for some time with a faired upright bicycle:
http://www.recumbents.com/forums/top...?TOPIC_ID=3029
  #7  
Old December 25th 18, 01:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Bicyycle fairing

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 16:15:26 -0600, Doug Cimperman
wrote:

On 12/22/2018 11:55 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:14:19 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 6:36:19 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
Re the current crop of power calculations, I've always wondered why
fairing's were never a popular item for bicycles. With today's
composite materials weight could be minimal and even the crudest drag
calculations show that wind resistance is the most critical factor in
bicycle speed.
See: https://www.racebikemart.com/adverts...1540463758.php
or action pictures at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBRkphIwTo

Granted that fairing's would not be legal equipment for racing but the
majority of bike sales are not for racing.

https://www.zzipper.com/

I had one for quite a few years. It just wasn't worth the trouble for
me.

- Frank Krygowski


I remember reading, some time ago, about a bloke in England that
commuted a fairly long distance to work each day. It turned out that
he "rode" a completely enclosed and streamlined recumbent bike and,
the article said, he was averaging 30 mph.

cheers,

John B.



Some years back (I guess in the 1980's) there was still a couple IHPVA
teams competing with fully-faired upright bicycles. I recall the old
photos but don't know the names. Despite a several-years-long attempt,
they generally were not competitive. This would be back around the
Versatron Vector days.

This link shows an older example, but one that has the same general shape:
http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/38-v11n3-1994.pdf (the image on page
7 of the pdf)
--except the modern ones were ribbed like an airplane rudder and covered
with clear plastic to improve rider visibility. Often the only two
modifications to the underlying bicycles was chopped and narrowed drop
bars and a BIG chainring (80T or so).

-Of course--unlike most other sanctioned competitions--the IHPVA does
not tell you what kind of bicycle you can bring.

----

The general opinion even among velomobile riders is that using any
fully-faired, two-wheel bicycle on the street is still a very daring
feat. The Battle Mountain bikes are totally impractical due to very poor
outward visibility (if they have a windshield at all, that is) and they
require assistance getting in and out, and starting and stopping.

Velomobiles (trikes) are common but so far I have heard of only one
company/person building fully-faired, 2-wheel recumbents that were
intended for street use. Speedbikes.ch used to offer the
Peregrin-on-Birk model for around $35K (USD) but they don't list it now.

https://www.google.com/search?q=peregrin+on+birk

Also in just the last few years there was a guy on recumbents.com who
was toying around for some time with a faired upright bicycle:
http://www.recumbents.com/forums/top...?TOPIC_ID=3029


What I was thinking about when I made the original post was a fairing
somewhat similar to the Yamaha TD-1 that I posted the reference to.

cheers,

John B.


  #8  
Old December 25th 18, 06:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Cimperman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 147
Default Bicyycle fairing

On 12/24/2018 6:13 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
...
The problem is far from simple. See the following for a rather
complete discussion of the problem as it applies to "those other two
wheel guys".
http://canadamotoguide.com/2016/05/0...-aerodynamics/
Or for us guys:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...g_aerodynamics

cheers,

John B.



Some recumbent people do frequently use body socks for on-road riding. A
body sock is a hard front fairing, with a stretchy fabric mid/rear
section. It affords some flexing in cross-winds while maintaining most
of the aerodynamic advantage of a full fairing at low to moderate speeds.

Also we note:
The racing motorcycles shown all had fixed fins.
Nowadays you could probably build a dustbin fairing for a motorcycle,
but with some air pressure sensors and fins on the front controlled by
an Arduino, to create vortices to help disrupt crosswind effects.

Another possible option would be to build a motorcycle with digital
steering--drive-by-wire. Similar to ABS, even a cheap microprocessor
could make control corrections dozens of times a second,,, way faster
than any human can. (or use both these systems)

  #9  
Old December 25th 18, 06:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Bicyycle fairing

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 23:08:52 -0600, Doug Cimperman
wrote:

On 12/24/2018 6:13 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
...
The problem is far from simple. See the following for a rather
complete discussion of the problem as it applies to "those other two
wheel guys".
http://canadamotoguide.com/2016/05/0...-aerodynamics/
Or for us guys:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...g_aerodynamics

cheers,

John B.



Some recumbent people do frequently use body socks for on-road riding. A
body sock is a hard front fairing, with a stretchy fabric mid/rear
section. It affords some flexing in cross-winds while maintaining most
of the aerodynamic advantage of a full fairing at low to moderate speeds.

Also we note:
The racing motorcycles shown all had fixed fins.
Nowadays you could probably build a dustbin fairing for a motorcycle,
but with some air pressure sensors and fins on the front controlled by
an Arduino, to create vortices to help disrupt crosswind effects.


I saw mention of at least one motorcycle fairing that had holes in it
to control, or moderate, crosswind problems, but having said that
bicycles with disk wheels must be susceptible to crosswind instability
but people seem to ride them anyway.

Another possible option would be to build a motorcycle with digital
steering--drive-by-wire. Similar to ABS, even a cheap microprocessor
could make control corrections dozens of times a second,,, way faster
than any human can. (or use both these systems)


Racing motorcycles seem to get along without auto-steering. At least
at current speeds.

cheers,

John B.


  #10  
Old December 25th 18, 06:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Cimperman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 147
Default Bicyycle fairing

On 12/24/2018 11:23 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 23:08:52 -0600, Doug Cimperman
wrote:
...
Another possible option would be to build a motorcycle with digital
steering--drive-by-wire. Similar to ABS, even a cheap microprocessor
could make control corrections dozens of times a second,,, way faster
than any human can. (or use both these systems)


Racing motorcycles seem to get along without auto-steering. At least
at current speeds.

cheers,

John B.



Except when they don't.
https://www.google.com/search?client...+tank+slapping
 




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