Forty-four watts per Kilogram?

One of our local cyclists said in an email to our cycling list that in
order to ride with their group you needed to be capable of outputting 44
watts per kg at your lactate threshold.

I sort of know what he's saying, but I'm wondering if there's a better way
to put it for the average recreational cyclist.

I'm able to go 11mph rather easily on a 5% grade for 2-4 miles. That's
about the best stat I can come up with. How does this compare? I figure I'm
doing about 225 watts.

Since I weigh about 100kg, I guess that means I'm only half-way there?

TIA,

jj

wrote:

One of our local cyclists said in an email to our cycling list that in
order to ride with their group you needed to be capable of outputting 44
watts per kg at your lactate threshold.

I sort of know what he's saying, but I'm wondering if there's a better way
to put it for the average recreational cyclist.

I'm able to go 11mph rather easily on a 5% grade for 2-4 miles. That's
about the best stat I can come up with. How does this compare? I figure I'm
doing about 225 watts.

Since I weigh about 100kg, I guess that means I'm only half-way there?

TIA,

jj

I think we have some math issues here . . . somewhere.

Lance is capable of 7W/Kg.

225 watts for a 100Kg person is 2.25 W/Kg

Sprinters can generate higher power/weight ratios. Brad McGee
generates 530 watts for his 72Kg (7.36 W/Kg).

It's said you need to sustain 7 to win a mountain stage in the Tour.

Here's a good article with some info on the topic:

http://www.nyvelocity.com/content.php?id=108

Quoted. See the link for more details and graphics:

Here are the profiles of two top professionals:

Lance Armstrong
WEIGHT: 70 kg
Height :180cm
Resting heart rate: 32-34
VO2ml/kg: 83.8
Max power at VO2: 600 watts
Max heart rate: 201
Lactate Threshold HR: 178
Time Trial HR: 188-192
MSS 460-500 (500 divided by 70 = over 7 watts to the kilogram)

Brad McGee
Weight: 72 kg / 159 lbs
HEIGHT:182.5 cm
VO2MAX:89/mmol/min/kg
THRESHOLD:390-410 Watts at 195-205bpm
Average wattage for 4000 meter individual Pursuit: 530+ watts.
(Pursuit world record is 3:30 so that's a long time to ride over
threshold, a unique ability of the Pursuit rider)


If you want to win the Tour De France you will need a Power to kilo
ratio of at least 7.00 for the mountains. In other words if you can
sustain seven watts for each kilo you weigh for about half an hour you
can ride the Pyrenees with the elite group. Lance Armstrong weighs
about 70 kilos (160 pounds) so he had to put out an average of 490
watts to clock 39 minutes up the Alp D'Huez, 7 watts for each kilo for
almost 40 minutes.

Of course watts per kilos became more important as the grade gets
steeper. On a flat or a sprint the weight of the rider and bicycle
have little effect, aerodynamics become much more important than
weight. That's why time trialists and sprinters use heavier
aerodynamic wheels. Damiano Cunego weights 58 kilos - 128 pounds, his
anaerobic threshold is 420 watts that gives him a world class power to
weight ratio of more than seven watts per kilogram. So he has an
advantage in the mountain but it is somewhat neutralized in a flat
time trial. In a time trial a rider like Jan Ullrich may not have the
power to weight advantage of a 'pure climber' but his ability to
generate more power still gives him the edge. So to improve you must
either lose weight or gain power, usually losing weight is the easier
of the two, that’s why most Cat 4s think that if they just dropped
enough weight they could join the pro tour. As Homer Simpson says "In
theory Communism works too."



The same holds true for sprinting. Marty Nothstien weighted 220 pounds
or 100 kilos in the 1996 Olympics, it takes a lot of power to get that
much weight up to 45+ MPH but with maximum power at over 2200 watts at
peak his engine was more than big enough. That’s well above great road
sprinters who are comparatively small like Cipollini (1900 watt max)
or Pettachi (reported 1700 watts). Conversely Chris Boardman was able
to produce over 440 watts for an hour to break the hour record but his
top power in a sprint was only 1000 watts, not enough to win a cat 5
sprint at Floyd Bennett Field. With power testing a cyclist quickly
realizes what their strengths and weaknesses are.

Okay good for them what about you and me?
The average Cat 4 park racer can produce seven watts per kilogram of
body weight for about one minute and around two minutes for a Cat 2.
In fact the average racer is much closer to an elite local racer than
that elite rider is to a top pro.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:22:59 GMT, Neil Brooks wrote:

wrote:

One of our local cyclists said in an email to our cycling list that in
order to ride with their group you needed to be capable of outputting 44
watts per kg at your lactate threshold.

I sort of know what he's saying, but I'm wondering if there's a better way
to put it for the average recreational cyclist.

I'm able to go 11mph rather easily on a 5% grade for 2-4 miles. That's
about the best stat I can come up with. How does this compare? I figure I'm
doing about 225 watts.

Since I weigh about 100kg, I guess that means I'm only half-way there?

TIA,

jj

I think we have some math issues here . . . somewhere.

Lance is capable of 7W/Kg.

225 watts for a 100Kg person is 2.25 W/Kg

Sprinters can generate higher power/weight ratios. Brad McGee
generates 530 watts for his 72Kg (7.36 W/Kg).

It's said you need to sustain 7 to win a mountain stage in the Tour.

big snip of lots of good stuff

Okay good for them what about you and me?
The average Cat 4 park racer can produce seven watts per kilogram of
body weight for about one minute and around two minutes for a Cat 2.
In fact the average racer is much closer to an elite local racer than
that elite rider is to a top pro.

slapping forehead Ok, he didn't say 44watts/kg, he said 4 watts per
kilogram. So that's probably about the level of the Cat 4/5 racer?

So I suppose he means sustain 4 watts/kg for about a half-hour? (he didn't
specify how long, just generate at the LT.

Is there a way to turn the 7watts/kg for one minute into miles per hour?
IOW, a Cat 4 racer usually can go 25, (or 30?) mph for one minute? Does
that seem close?

Thanks, a bunch, Neil.

jj

wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:22:59 GMT, Neil Brooks wrote:

wrote:

One of our local cyclists said in an email to our cycling list that in
order to ride with their group you needed to be capable of outputting 44
watts per kg at your lactate threshold.

I sort of know what he's saying, but I'm wondering if there's a better way
to put it for the average recreational cyclist.

I'm able to go 11mph rather easily on a 5% grade for 2-4 miles. That's
about the best stat I can come up with. How does this compare? I figure I'm
doing about 225 watts.

Since I weigh about 100kg, I guess that means I'm only half-way there?

TIA,

jj

I think we have some math issues here . . . somewhere.

Lance is capable of 7W/Kg.

225 watts for a 100Kg person is 2.25 W/Kg

Sprinters can generate higher power/weight ratios. Brad McGee
generates 530 watts for his 72Kg (7.36 W/Kg).

It's said you need to sustain 7 to win a mountain stage in the Tour.

big snip of lots of good stuff

Okay good for them what about you and me?
The average Cat 4 park racer can produce seven watts per kilogram of
body weight for about one minute and around two minutes for a Cat 2.
In fact the average racer is much closer to an elite local racer than
that elite rider is to a top pro.

slapping forehead Ok, he didn't say 44watts/kg, he said 4 watts per
kilogram. So that's probably about the level of the Cat 4/5 racer?

So I suppose he means sustain 4 watts/kg for about a half-hour? (he didn't
specify how long, just generate at the LT.

Is there a way to turn the 7watts/kg for one minute into miles per hour?
IOW, a Cat 4 racer usually can go 25, (or 30?) mph for one minute? Does
that seem close?

JJ,

You can actually do that sort of calcualation on this site:

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

You need to factor in a number of variables (wind resistance (a
product of body mass/frontal area), elevation (heavier riders have a
distinct disadvantage on protracted climbs), bike type and weight,
temp, elevation, etc.)

The Kreuzotter calculator takes all of that into account. Then, you
can derive wattage output based on your known speed, or speed based on
your known wattage output.

I've used this in conjunction with a GPS-generated hill profile to
determine my power on local climbs. Long story short: I'm a slug.

Have fun :-)

"jj" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:22:59 GMT, Neil Brooks wrote:

wrote:

One of our local cyclists said in an email to our cycling list that in
order to ride with their group you needed to be capable of outputting 44
watts per kg at your lactate threshold.

I sort of know what he's saying, but I'm wondering if there's a better
way
to put it for the average recreational cyclist.

I'm able to go 11mph rather easily on a 5% grade for 2-4 miles. That's
about the best stat I can come up with. How does this compare? I figure
I'm
doing about 225 watts.

Since I weigh about 100kg, I guess that means I'm only half-way there?

TIA,

jj

I think we have some math issues here . . . somewhere.

Lance is capable of 7W/Kg.

225 watts for a 100Kg person is 2.25 W/Kg

Sprinters can generate higher power/weight ratios. Brad McGee
generates 530 watts for his 72Kg (7.36 W/Kg).

It's said you need to sustain 7 to win a mountain stage in the Tour.

big snip of lots of good stuff

Okay good for them what about you and me?
The average Cat 4 park racer can produce seven watts per kilogram of
body weight for about one minute and around two minutes for a Cat 2.
In fact the average racer is much closer to an elite local racer than
that elite rider is to a top pro.

slapping forehead Ok, he didn't say 44watts/kg, he said 4 watts per
kilogram. So that's probably about the level of the Cat 4/5 racer?

So I suppose he means sustain 4 watts/kg for about a half-hour? (he didn't
specify how long, just generate at the LT.

Is there a way to turn the 7watts/kg for one minute into miles per hour?
IOW, a Cat 4 racer usually can go 25, (or 30?) mph for one minute? Does
that seem close?

Thanks, a bunch, Neil.


Try http://www.analyticcycling.com/

jj wrote:

slapping forehead Ok, he didn't say 44watts/kg, he said 4 watts per
kilogram. So that's probably about the level of the Cat 4/5 racer?

Probably. I can sustain roughly 4.5 W/kg, perhaps a bit more, for half
an hour and am not much of a racer, but then I'm in the lightweight end
of male cyclists at about 60 kilograms.

Is there a way to turn the 7watts/kg for one minute into miles per hour?
IOW, a Cat 4 racer usually can go 25, (or 30?) mph for one minute? Does
that seem close?

Power/weight can predict climbing speeds with good accuracy, because
then air resistance isn't a big factor due to the slow speed. On a flat
road if you have two riders of different size with the same W/kg, the
bigger rider with more absolute power is likely to be faster, everything
else being equal.

There are several calculators on the net with which you can try to
predict the speeds given the parameters.

-as

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:40:43 GMT, Neil Brooks wrote:

Is there a way to turn the 7watts/kg for one minute into miles per hour?
IOW, a Cat 4 racer usually can go 25, (or 30?) mph for one minute? Does
that seem close?

JJ,

You can actually do that sort of calcualation on this site:

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

You need to factor in a number of variables (wind resistance (a
product of body mass/frontal area), elevation (heavier riders have a
distinct disadvantage on protracted climbs), bike type and weight,
temp, elevation, etc.)

The Kreuzotter calculator takes all of that into account. Then, you
can derive wattage output based on your known speed, or speed based on
your known wattage output.

I've used this in conjunction with a GPS-generated hill profile to
determine my power on local climbs. Long story short: I'm a slug.

Have fun :-)

OK, I've gone back and looked at my 5% hill climb and plugged in the
numbers.

It seems that right now, I'm easily generating 362 watts for 10 minutes.

If I can increase my avg speed two miles per hour (from 10.5mph to
12.6mph), then I'll bring my wattage up to that '4 watts/kg' level.

I'm nowhere near my limit and I'm sure I could continue to climb for 10
more minutes at about that rate. Chris Carmichael says if you want to be a
pro rider (I just want to ride Cat A group rides, lol), that you need
between 450 to 500 watts for 30 minutes.

I'm gonna aim for 400watts for 30 minutes on a 5% climb, at about 12miles
per hour. Seems like a goal I can definitely make within the next 6 months.

Thanks for the link and the help.

jj

wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:40:43 GMT, Neil Brooks wrote:

Is there a way to turn the 7watts/kg for one minute into miles per hour?
IOW, a Cat 4 racer usually can go 25, (or 30?) mph for one minute? Does
that seem close?

JJ,

You can actually do that sort of calcualation on this site:

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

You need to factor in a number of variables (wind resistance (a
product of body mass/frontal area), elevation (heavier riders have a
distinct disadvantage on protracted climbs), bike type and weight,
temp, elevation, etc.)

The Kreuzotter calculator takes all of that into account. Then, you
can derive wattage output based on your known speed, or speed based on
your known wattage output.

I've used this in conjunction with a GPS-generated hill profile to
determine my power on local climbs. Long story short: I'm a slug.

Have fun :-)

OK, I've gone back and looked at my 5% hill climb and plugged in the
numbers.

It seems that right now, I'm easily generating 362 watts for 10 minutes.

If I can increase my avg speed two miles per hour (from 10.5mph to
12.6mph), then I'll bring my wattage up to that '4 watts/kg' level.

I'm nowhere near my limit and I'm sure I could continue to climb for 10
more minutes at about that rate. Chris Carmichael says if you want to be a
pro rider (I just want to ride Cat A group rides, lol), that you need
between 450 to 500 watts for 30 minutes.

I'm gonna aim for 400watts for 30 minutes on a 5% climb, at about 12miles
per hour. Seems like a goal I can definitely make within the next 6 months.

Thanks for the link and the help.

Pleased and proud....

Here's another one to obsess over ;-) Meters-per-minute climbed.
Simply divide the height of the climb (meters( by the number of
minutes it took you to get to the top.

Benchmarks:

19 meters per minute: survive the TdF
22-25 meters per minute: place top 30 in the TdF
30-32 meters per minute: win climb of l'Alpe d'Huez

Estimates:

20-25 meters per minute: Cat 1-2 riders
17-22 meters per minute: Masters, depending on age

Good luck!

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 02:19:45 GMT, Neil Brooks wrote:

I'm gonna aim for 400watts for 30 minutes on a 5% climb, at about 12miles
per hour. Seems like a goal I can definitely make within the next 6 months.

Thanks for the link and the help.

Pleased and proud....

Here's another one to obsess over ;-) Meters-per-minute climbed.
Simply divide the height of the climb (meters( by the number of
minutes it took you to get to the top.

Benchmarks:

19 meters per minute: survive the TdF
22-25 meters per minute: place top 30 in the TdF
30-32 meters per minute: win climb of l'Alpe d'Huez

Estimates:

20-25 meters per minute: Cat 1-2 riders
17-22 meters per minute: Masters, depending on age

Good luck!

Haha. Well I'll store that one on the hard drive and get back to it.

(Uh, by 'height of the climb' you don't mean length, right, but vertical
height, or maybe elevation gain? If not, where do you plug in the percent
grade?)

(I googled but didn't find anything illustrative. I'm thinking you mean
elevation gain...)

jj

wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 02:19:45 GMT, Neil Brooks wrote:

I'm gonna aim for 400watts for 30 minutes on a 5% climb, at about 12miles
per hour. Seems like a goal I can definitely make within the next 6 months.

Thanks for the link and the help.

Pleased and proud....

Here's another one to obsess over ;-) Meters-per-minute climbed.
Simply divide the height of the climb (meters( by the number of
minutes it took you to get to the top.

Benchmarks:

19 meters per minute: survive the TdF
22-25 meters per minute: place top 30 in the TdF
30-32 meters per minute: win climb of l'Alpe d'Huez

Estimates:

20-25 meters per minute: Cat 1-2 riders
17-22 meters per minute: Masters, depending on age

Good luck!

Haha. Well I'll store that one on the hard drive and get back to it.

(Uh, by 'height of the climb' you don't mean length, right, but vertical
height, or maybe elevation gain? If not, where do you plug in the percent
grade?)

(I googled but didn't find anything illustrative. I'm thinking you mean
elevation gain...)

Elevation gain/vertical height it is.