Cyclists are putting red cups in the road to show how drivers ofteninvade bike lanes

On Tuesday, April 30, 2019 at 9:18:30 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/30/2019 1:39 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 11:19:32 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/29/2019 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:00:10 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 12:33:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:

In San Francisco it isn't at all unusual to watch cars drive right down streets that are bicycle and Muni Transit Buses only and so marked. My residence is on a No Trucks Allowed street and I watch trucks driving by regularly. And I have watched doubles back and hitch to make the turn to get ONTO this residential street.

FWIW, that happened to me in Paris a few years ago. There was a segregated bike-
bus lane along a busy street. I was riding it in the rain. A dude in a black
fancy German car (Audi or Mercedes, I forget which) turned illegally into the
lane behind me and began honking for me to get out of the way. I just shook my
head and rode on. He stayed behind me until the next intersection then turned
off. He had no realistic alternative. I certainly wasn't about to pull over
to let him pass!

- Frank Krygowski

I can't comment on Paris but here, and I suspect in other countries as
well, the law says that "thou shall not impede other traffic".

That's not the law here. Every slow moving truck impedes traffic. Every
school bus does the same, as well as every rural delivery post office
truck, every farmer's tractor moving between fields, every Amish buggy,
and quite a few motorists who spend their red light gazing at their cell
phones, then failing to notice the green light until others start
honking at them.

But in the Paris incident, there was no way I would get out of the way
of a rude and impatient law breaker.


--
- Frank Krygowski

IIRC, in Ontario Canada if your vehicle is holding up 4 or more other vehicles then the law says when safe to do so you're to pull over and allow t hat traffic to pass. Failure to do so can result in citations and fines for impeding traffic.

Some U.S. states have similar laws (typically, 5 vehicles) but mine does
not. And here in Ohio there was a court decision stating that a
bicyclist isn't bound by obstruction provisions if he's moving at a
reasonable speed for a bicyclist. The same applies to slow moving
trucks, etc. Only limited access freeways have minimum speed requirements..

Having said that, there have been a few times I've pulled over to let
multiple cars pass me on a narrow and busy two-lane road. But only a few
times. The issue comes up only very rarely, because it's actually
uncommon for a motorist to have to wait behind me for even 30 seconds.

Today I was powerfully shown yet again why you NEVER wave any cars around you no matter what. I had a car behind me on a turning climb and was slow. It appeared to be a clear straight ahead so I waved him around and a F-ing car doing about 40k mph appeared out of nowhere. There was just enough twist in that straight pieced of road to hide that car. Luckily I just had time to swerve over in front of that car I waved around and waved him back. Today was one of those days when every single road I was on have an almost continuous string of traffic on it.

On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:18:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Some U.S. states have similar laws (typically, 5 vehicles) but mine does
not. And here in Ohio there was a court decision stating that a
bicyclist isn't bound by obstruction provisions if he's moving at a
reasonable speed for a bicyclist. The same applies to slow moving
trucks, etc. Only limited access freeways have minimum speed requirements.

Having said that, there have been a few times I've pulled over to let
multiple cars pass me on a narrow and busy two-lane road. But only a few
times. The issue comes up only very rarely, because it's actually
uncommon for a motorist to have to wait behind me for even 30 seconds.

In Indiana, you have to start looking for a "reasonable" chance to let
them by if there are three or more. I start looking for a reasonable
chance if there is *any* vehicle that can't get around me -- but that
hardly ever happens except in roundabouts, where the speed limit is
fifteen miles per hour and I'm going almost as fast as is legal.

After going through the Fox Farm roundabout, I usually stop at Open
Air Greenhouses to catch my breath. If I burn the carbon out of my
carburetor once in a while it will take much longer to get to the
stage where I can't ride at all.

I also sprint when passing between two rows of parked cars on Park
Avenue, about two blocks -- and a speed limit of 25 mph.


--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Tuesday, April 30, 2019 at 8:42:26 PM UTC-7, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:18:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Some U.S. states have similar laws (typically, 5 vehicles) but mine does
not. And here in Ohio there was a court decision stating that a
bicyclist isn't bound by obstruction provisions if he's moving at a
reasonable speed for a bicyclist. The same applies to slow moving
trucks, etc. Only limited access freeways have minimum speed requirements.

Having said that, there have been a few times I've pulled over to let
multiple cars pass me on a narrow and busy two-lane road. But only a few
times. The issue comes up only very rarely, because it's actually
uncommon for a motorist to have to wait behind me for even 30 seconds.

In Indiana, you have to start looking for a "reasonable" chance to let
them by if there are three or more. I start looking for a reasonable
chance if there is *any* vehicle that can't get around me -- but that
hardly ever happens except in roundabouts, where the speed limit is
fifteen miles per hour and I'm going almost as fast as is legal.

After going through the Fox Farm roundabout, I usually stop at Open
Air Greenhouses to catch my breath. If I burn the carbon out of my
carburetor once in a while it will take much longer to get to the
stage where I can't ride at all.

I also sprint when passing between two rows of parked cars on Park
Avenue, about two blocks -- and a speed limit of 25 mph.


--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

I find drivers simply too unreliable. You have someone behind you and you come to a straight section for which they can see and instead of scooting around you they either stay back or crawl by so slowly that a Porche doing 60 mph on these twisty mountain roads comes the other way.

Am 30.04.2019 um 01:19 schrieb John B.:
I can't comment on Paris but here, and I suspect in other countries as
well, the law says that "thou shall not impede other traffic".

The law in most countries including Germany and France says "Do not
impede other traffic more than necessary". It has neither the
importance nor the language of the ten commandments.

The decision what is a necessary impediment and what not is up the the
decision of the driver of the slower vehicle, and he has the permission
to include in this decision whether the other traffic has a legal right
to use that road.

On Thursday, May 2, 2019 at 3:41:41 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 30.04.2019 um 01:19 schrieb John B.:
I can't comment on Paris but here, and I suspect in other countries as
well, the law says that "thou shall not impede other traffic".

The law in most countries including Germany and France says "Do not
impede other traffic more than necessary". It has neither the
importance nor the language of the ten commandments.

The decision what is a necessary impediment and what not is up the the
decision of the driver of the slower vehicle, and he has the permission
to include in this decision whether the other traffic has a legal right
to use that road.

That is also the law throughout most of the world. While bicycles do not have right of way, they have equal right of way.

On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 4:25:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 11:00:12 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 12:33:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:

In San Francisco it isn't at all unusual to watch cars drive right down streets that are bicycle and Muni Transit Buses only and so marked. My residence is on a No Trucks Allowed street and I watch trucks driving by regularly. And I have watched doubles back and hitch to make the turn to get ONTO this residential street.

FWIW, that happened to me in Paris a few years ago. There was a segregated bike-
bus lane along a busy street. I was riding it in the rain. A dude in a black
fancy German car (Audi or Mercedes, I forget which) turned illegally into the
lane behind me and began honking for me to get out of the way. I just shook my
head and rode on. He stayed behind me until the next intersection then turned
off. He had no realistic alternative. I certainly wasn't about to pull over
to let him pass!

- Frank Krygowski

The drivers in San Francisco are very odd ducks. On the streets where cars are severely limited they want to run over you. But out on streets where there are lanes divided down the middle with street cars and overhead electric wires and the lanes are somewhat limited they are polite as hell.

Around areas of San Francisco there are areas that look like wide sidewalks that they call something else (forget the name) but you can ride a bike on them. But you aren't allowed to ride on sidewalks. The cops don't even like you turning up onto a sidewalk to dismount and stop at a café or something.

And if these sorts of crazy things aren't enough you should try reading the gun laws. Let us say that you have a Concealed Carry Permit and carry a gun with you. You see someone robbing a bank and he is opening fire on people - if you shoot and kill that guy you can be prosecuted for murder. You are only allowed to discharge a weapon to protect your own personal safety. You actually would be in less danger of prosecution by carrying an illegal concealed weapon. Democrat State at work for the people.

I wonder about that. If someone is killing others, I see no jury would convicting someone.

Andy

On 5/2/2019 4:32 PM, AK wrote:
On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 4:25:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 11:00:12 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 12:33:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:

In San Francisco it isn't at all unusual to watch cars drive right down streets that are bicycle and Muni Transit Buses only and so marked. My residence is on a No Trucks Allowed street and I watch trucks driving by regularly. And I have watched doubles back and hitch to make the turn to get ONTO this residential street.

FWIW, that happened to me in Paris a few years ago. There was a segregated bike-
bus lane along a busy street. I was riding it in the rain. A dude in a black
fancy German car (Audi or Mercedes, I forget which) turned illegally into the
lane behind me and began honking for me to get out of the way. I just shook my
head and rode on. He stayed behind me until the next intersection then turned
off. He had no realistic alternative. I certainly wasn't about to pull over
to let him pass!

- Frank Krygowski

The drivers in San Francisco are very odd ducks. On the streets where cars are severely limited they want to run over you. But out on streets where there are lanes divided down the middle with street cars and overhead electric wires and the lanes are somewhat limited they are polite as hell.

Around areas of San Francisco there are areas that look like wide sidewalks that they call something else (forget the name) but you can ride a bike on them. But you aren't allowed to ride on sidewalks. The cops don't even like you turning up onto a sidewalk to dismount and stop at a café or something.

And if these sorts of crazy things aren't enough you should try reading the gun laws. Let us say that you have a Concealed Carry Permit and carry a gun with you. You see someone robbing a bank and he is opening fire on people - if you shoot and kill that guy you can be prosecuted for murder. You are only allowed to discharge a weapon to protect your own personal safety. You actually would be in less danger of prosecution by carrying an illegal concealed weapon. Democrat State at work for the people.

I wonder about that. If someone is killing others, I see no jury would convicting someone.

Andy


Varies by State statute and by jury pool. Tom's right both
on California law and the typical SF jury pool.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971