So much fr a growth in bicycle riding from the pandemic.

On Sun, 31 May 2020 18:49:33 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 6:55:57 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:

Actually Frank, I wasn't advocating anything. I was arguing that an
entity has the right to do what it wishes with it's own property.
Are you arguing that one doesn't?

Nope. As I said, a person generally has the right to do what one likes
with his property, assuming it doesn't harm others. But still, some
things a person might choose to do are, well, stupid. That person
shouldn't be surprised if other people mention that stupidity.

Just as one must certainly be a bit off to spend, oh say, $3,000 on a
bicycle.... and ride it in the rain?

Many would say that's stupid. Others would disagree. That disagreement
could lead to rational discussion, from which various people might
learn a thing or two. If only we could find a discussion group where
such things could be discussed!

- Frank Krygowski

Well, given that it is (still I hope) a democracy we need to take a
vote. Question? Riding a $3,000 bicycle in the rain is just plain
silly.

You care to estimate percentages pro and con if we go to any large
population center and ask the first 100 people that walk down the
street?
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 31 May 2020 19:09:17 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 8:21:04 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2020 16:16:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Sure, people can make their own choices. They have freedom of choice.
But others can discuss those choices. We have freedom of speech; and
this _is_ a discussion group.

"All choices are equally valid" is way too liberal for me.

Why aren't all choices equally valid... for those individuals that
make the choice?

Easy. Because some choices lead to regret. I imagine you've made some
choices you later regretted. I certainly have.

I can certainly find literally hordes of people that don't think that
an engineering career is suitable, that playing a banjo is music, that
riding a bicycle displays even minimal intelligence, even that living
in Ohio is a logical choice :-)

Those opinions may be fine for the people who hold them. Similarly,
there might be those who mad opposite choices and later regretted
them.

I remember one former English professor who had risen to a very high
level in our university's administration. On visiting one of my labs,
she told me that she still wished she had gone into engineering.

I think her choice worked well enough for her. But perhaps the other
would have worked better. Who knows?

- Frank Krygowski


Interesting. As a rebuttal:
The son of a first Sergeant that I had served with in Japan introduced
himself to me some 10 years later. He had joined the Air Force because
if he played his cards right he could get a free collage education.
As he really had no preference in "trades" he was a bit puzzled over
what courses he should take and what to aim for as a degree so he
wrote the personnel managers of a number of companies like Ford,
General Motors, Chrysler, asking what degree would be best if he was
applying for a job at their company.

And surprisingly they all said "English" :-)

(Holding my right hand up and swearing the it is the truth, the whole
truth, etc.)
--
cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2020 19:09:17 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 8:21:04 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2020 16:16:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Sure, people can make their own choices. They have freedom of choice.
But others can discuss those choices. We have freedom of speech; and
this _is_ a discussion group.

"All choices are equally valid" is way too liberal for me.

Why aren't all choices equally valid... for those individuals that
make the choice?

Easy. Because some choices lead to regret. I imagine you've made some
choices you later regretted. I certainly have.

I can certainly find literally hordes of people that don't think that
an engineering career is suitable, that playing a banjo is music, that
riding a bicycle displays even minimal intelligence, even that living
in Ohio is a logical choice :-)

Those opinions may be fine for the people who hold them. Similarly,
there might be those who mad opposite choices and later regretted
them.

I remember one former English professor who had risen to a very high
level in our university's administration. On visiting one of my labs,
she told me that she still wished she had gone into engineering.

I think her choice worked well enough for her. But perhaps the other
would have worked better. Who knows?

- Frank Krygowski


Interesting. As a rebuttal:
The son of a first Sergeant that I had served with in Japan introduced
himself to me some 10 years later. He had joined the Air Force because
if he played his cards right he could get a free collage education.
As he really had no preference in "trades" he was a bit puzzled over
what courses he should take and what to aim for as a degree so he
wrote the personnel managers of a number of companies like Ford,
General Motors, Chrysler, asking what degree would be best if he was
applying for a job at their company.

And surprisingly they all said "English" :-)

(Holding my right hand up and swearing the it is the truth, the whole
truth, etc.)
--
cheers,

John B.



Along the same lines, I made a career out of engineering, but some of the
highest value work I ever did involved writing (or rewriting things that
other engineers had written). At some point, no matter what your major,
you’re going to have to transmit your ideas into other people’s heads, and
that’s where fluency in English (or whatever the language of choice is)
comes into play.

On Monday, 1 June 2020 00:28:47 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2020 18:49:33 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 6:55:57 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:

Actually Frank, I wasn't advocating anything. I was arguing that an
entity has the right to do what it wishes with it's own property.
Are you arguing that one doesn't?

Nope. As I said, a person generally has the right to do what one likes
with his property, assuming it doesn't harm others. But still, some
things a person might choose to do are, well, stupid. That person
shouldn't be surprised if other people mention that stupidity.

Just as one must certainly be a bit off to spend, oh say, $3,000 on a
bicycle.... and ride it in the rain?

Many would say that's stupid. Others would disagree. That disagreement
could lead to rational discussion, from which various people might
learn a thing or two. If only we could find a discussion group where
such things could be discussed!

- Frank Krygowski

Well, given that it is (still I hope) a democracy we need to take a
vote. Question? Riding a $3,000 bicycle in the rain is just plain
silly.

You care to estimate percentages pro and con if we go to any large
population center and ask the first 100 people that walk down the
street?
--
cheers,

John B.

Back in 1985 or 1986 I bought a brand new Columbus SL racing bicycle with a complete Dura Ace Indexed groupset. At that time the bike cost $1,500,00 CDN That's $3,192.00CDN today. Many times I had to ride that bike home from work in the rain.

For some people (not me) a $3,000.00+ bike is not that expensive and thus they might treat it as we'd treat a beater bike.

For others a $3,000.00+ bike might be the ONLY bike they own and thus will ride it in the rain too.

Cheers

On Fri, 29 May 2020 12:49:36 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52832791
Uber is destroying thousands of electric bikes and scooters, after
selling its Jump business to Lime.

Videos of its red bikes being crushed at a US recycling centre were
shared on social media, angering cycling advocates.

That's also happening here in Santa Cruz, California.
"Santa Cruz Jump bike-share program future unclear"
https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2020/05/11/santa-cruz-jump-bike-share-program-future-unclear/

Uber said it had decided to destroy thousands of its older-model vehicles
due to maintenance, liability and safety concerns.

Uber designed a replacement bicycle in 2018:
"Uber’s new Jump e-bikes are easier to charge and harder to vandalize"
https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/18/18144582/uber-jump-new-electric-bike-bikeshare-micromobility
I haven't seen any in Santa Cruz.

"Uber Jump Bicycle Accident Attorney"
https://www.losangelespersonalinjurylawyers.co/bicycle-accident-lawyer-uber-jump/
Uber, however, can contribute to accidents by not providing
adequate bikes or by not maintaining bikes that are on the
streets. In these instances, you can hold the company
responsible; you may also be able to sue if you were hit by
a car because of a defect with the bike.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Monday, June 1, 2020 at 7:19:48 AM UTC+2, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 1 June 2020 00:28:47 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2020 18:49:33 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 6:55:57 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:

Actually Frank, I wasn't advocating anything. I was arguing that an
entity has the right to do what it wishes with it's own property.
Are you arguing that one doesn't?

Nope. As I said, a person generally has the right to do what one likes
with his property, assuming it doesn't harm others. But still, some
things a person might choose to do are, well, stupid. That person
shouldn't be surprised if other people mention that stupidity.

Just as one must certainly be a bit off to spend, oh say, $3,000 on a
bicycle.... and ride it in the rain?

Many would say that's stupid. Others would disagree. That disagreement
could lead to rational discussion, from which various people might
learn a thing or two. If only we could find a discussion group where
such things could be discussed!

- Frank Krygowski

Well, given that it is (still I hope) a democracy we need to take a
vote. Question? Riding a $3,000 bicycle in the rain is just plain
silly.

You care to estimate percentages pro and con if we go to any large
population center and ask the first 100 people that walk down the
street?
--
cheers,

John B.

Back in 1985 or 1986 I bought a brand new Columbus SL racing bicycle with a complete Dura Ace Indexed groupset. At that time the bike cost $1,500,00 CDN That's $3,192.00CDN today. Many times I had to ride that bike home from work in the rain.

For some people (not me) a $3,000.00+ bike is not that expensive and thus they might treat it as we'd treat a beater bike.

For others a $3,000.00+ bike might be the ONLY bike they own and thus will ride it in the rain too.

Cheers

A bike best suitable to ride in the rain can be expensive so it would be silly not to ride it in the rain.

Lou

On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 04:02:15 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jun 2020 10:45:52 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 01:32:38 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

Or you could not use their services. No one is forced to trade with
any particular 'greedy corporate parasite'.

I don't, but when their goal is to drive other businesses out of
existence, you are forced to deal with them.

Uber? Wants to out do their competitors? Amazing!

Wow, you ignoreance of the actions of modern global corporate activites
seems to know no bounds.

But perhaps you would be more appreciative if they were "a major loss
maker"?

They are. With any luck they'll hiccup, crash and burn. Nil sympathy for
the suckers who invested.

Yup. Perhaps, like the international mining companies in Australia.
Lets see, that will eliminate 240,000 jobs, then, of course, is
manufacturing, lots of big companies there with about 900,000, and of
course wholesale trade, lots of big companies there with 380,000 more
or less, then we have Accommodation and Food Services, you know those
big chain hotels and McDonalds, with something like 850,000.

And there goes something like 2,500,000 jobs but what the hell! We got
rid of some of those terrible big companies.

You are a fool!
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 31 May 2020 22:19:45 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, 1 June 2020 00:28:47 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2020 18:49:33 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 6:55:57 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:

Actually Frank, I wasn't advocating anything. I was arguing that an
entity has the right to do what it wishes with it's own property.
Are you arguing that one doesn't?

Nope. As I said, a person generally has the right to do what one likes
with his property, assuming it doesn't harm others. But still, some
things a person might choose to do are, well, stupid. That person
shouldn't be surprised if other people mention that stupidity.

Just as one must certainly be a bit off to spend, oh say, $3,000 on a
bicycle.... and ride it in the rain?

Many would say that's stupid. Others would disagree. That disagreement
could lead to rational discussion, from which various people might
learn a thing or two. If only we could find a discussion group where
such things could be discussed!

- Frank Krygowski

Well, given that it is (still I hope) a democracy we need to take a
vote. Question? Riding a $3,000 bicycle in the rain is just plain
silly.

You care to estimate percentages pro and con if we go to any large
population center and ask the first 100 people that walk down the
street?
--
cheers,

John B.

Back in 1985 or 1986 I bought a brand new Columbus SL racing bicycle with a complete Dura Ace Indexed groupset. At that time the bike cost $1,500,00 CDN That's $3,192.00CDN today. Many times I had to ride that bike home from work in the rain.

For some people (not me) a $3,000.00+ bike is not that expensive and thus they might treat it as we'd treat a beater bike.

For others a $3,000.00+ bike might be the ONLY bike they own and thus will ride it in the rain too.

Cheers

Look at the TREK site. $3,000 is chicken feed when it comes to
bicycles.
How about the "Checkpoint SL" Described as " an adventure-hungry
carbon gravel bike that can help you crush the toughest, longest
rides". Selling for only $5,999.99, a pittance for a bike of this
nature.

Of course if you are a cheapskate and don't mind the lads pointing
their fingers and mumbling things like "cheap Charley" you can have
the "Checkpoint SL5" described as "a carbon gravel bike made for epic
all-road adventures" and selling for only $2,899.99
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 04:51:38 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2020 19:09:17 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 8:21:04 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2020 16:16:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Sure, people can make their own choices. They have freedom of choice.
But others can discuss those choices. We have freedom of speech; and
this _is_ a discussion group.

"All choices are equally valid" is way too liberal for me.

Why aren't all choices equally valid... for those individuals that
make the choice?

Easy. Because some choices lead to regret. I imagine you've made some
choices you later regretted. I certainly have.

I can certainly find literally hordes of people that don't think that
an engineering career is suitable, that playing a banjo is music, that
riding a bicycle displays even minimal intelligence, even that living
in Ohio is a logical choice :-)

Those opinions may be fine for the people who hold them. Similarly,
there might be those who mad opposite choices and later regretted
them.

I remember one former English professor who had risen to a very high
level in our university's administration. On visiting one of my labs,
she told me that she still wished she had gone into engineering.

I think her choice worked well enough for her. But perhaps the other
would have worked better. Who knows?

- Frank Krygowski


Interesting. As a rebuttal:
The son of a first Sergeant that I had served with in Japan introduced
himself to me some 10 years later. He had joined the Air Force because
if he played his cards right he could get a free collage education.
As he really had no preference in "trades" he was a bit puzzled over
what courses he should take and what to aim for as a degree so he
wrote the personnel managers of a number of companies like Ford,
General Motors, Chrysler, asking what degree would be best if he was
applying for a job at their company.

And surprisingly they all said "English" :-)

(Holding my right hand up and swearing the it is the truth, the whole
truth, etc.)
--
cheers,

John B.



Along the same lines, I made a career out of engineering, but some of the
highest value work I ever did involved writing (or rewriting things that
other engineers had written). At some point, no matter what your major,
you’re going to have to transmit your ideas into other people’s heads, and
that’s where fluency in English (or whatever the language of choice is)
comes into play.

I asked the kid about that, after all when you think about car
companies you think about engineering and he said that the Personal
Managers had all said the same thing, that hiring an engineer was easy
but hiring someone who actually knew how to use English was difficult
:-)

Sort of on the same subject, In a conversation with one of the owners
of the company I worked for in Indonesia I once mentioned that
so-and-so was an engineer and the Boss said, "Engineer? If I want an
Engineer I can always hire one."
--
cheers,

John B.

On 5/31/2020 11:02 PM, news18 wrote:
On Mon, 01 Jun 2020 10:45:52 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 01:32:38 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

Or you could not use their services. No one is forced to trade with
any particular 'greedy corporate parasite'.

I don't, but when their goal is to drive other businesses out of
existence, you are forced to deal with them.

Uber? Wants to out do their competitors? Amazing!

Wow, you ignoreance of the actions of modern global corporate activites
seems to know no bounds.

But perhaps you would be more appreciative if they were "a major loss
maker"?

They are. With any luck they'll hiccup, crash and burn. Nil sympathy for
the suckers who invested.


Do you mean Solyndra and their rape of taxpayers perhaps?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971