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#41
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In praise of Brooks saddles
Tom Kunich wrote:
"pro-capitalist"? You don't believe that you should have to make your own way in this life? That the F-ing world owes you a living? No, I believe working people deserve fair compensation, and simply having wealth doesn't entitle you to the spoils of others' labor. I believe money should be a public utility and not a treasure hoard. And I believe that economic surpluses should serve the needy and the public good, not allow the development of perversions like billionaires. I believe the world doesn't owe rich fux a living just for being rich. |
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#42
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In praise of Brooks saddles
On 12/13/2019 12:59 PM, Chalo wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote: "pro-capitalist"? You don't believe that you should have to make your own way in this life? That the F-ing world owes you a living? No, I believe working people deserve fair compensation, and simply having wealth doesn't entitle you to the spoils of others' labor. I believe money should be a public utility and not a treasure hoard. And I believe that economic surpluses should serve the needy and the public good, not allow the development of perversions like billionaires. I believe the world doesn't owe rich fux a living just for being rich. Good luck with that. As Tom Sherman often noted, people who advocate communal systems stop short when asked to share one toothbrush with the neighborhood. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#43
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In praise of Brooks saddles
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 10:59:46 -0800 (PST), Chalo
wrote: Tom Kunich wrote: "pro-capitalist"? You don't believe that you should have to make your own way in this life? That the F-ing world owes you a living? No, I believe working people deserve fair compensation, and simply having wealth doesn't entitle you to the spoils of others' labor. I believe money should be a public utility and not a treasure hoard. And I believe that economic surpluses should serve the needy and the public good, not allow the development of perversions like billionaires. I believe the world doesn't owe rich fux a living just for being rich. Oh! You mean like Bill Gates? Or maybe Larry Page? Or Sergey Brin? Or even Mark Zuckerberg? I could go on, I suppose, but what's the sense, as you know that the world doesn't owe rich fux a living just for being rich.... even when they made the money themselves. As for money being a "public utility"? Hey, a really great idea! And how much of your salary will you be committing to this scheme? -- cheers, John B. |
#44
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In praise of Brooks saddles
I think Huey Long had it right. In fact, I think he was killed for getting the formula right for the largest possible number of people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_Our_Wealth |
#45
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In praise of Brooks saddles
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:34:12 -0800 (PST), Chalo
wrote: I think Huey Long had it right. In fact, I think he was killed for getting the formula right for the largest possible number of people. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_Our_Wealth Actually Huey did a lot for Louisiana. Free school books, built a lot of bridges, etc., and at the same time seized almost complete control of the state. He bragged that he had "taken over every board and commission in New Orleans except the Community Chest and the Red Cross. By the middle of 1935 he had the state legislature rubber stamping about any piece of legislature he proposed. He was assassinated by Carl Weiss, the son-in-law of Judge Benjamin Henry Pavy. The assassination took place almost immediately after Long had convinced the Legislature to alter Pavy's judicial district ensuring that Judge Pavy could not be re-elected. As a side note, the Weiss family apparently still refuses to believe that Carl actually shot Long. -- cheers, John B. |
#46
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In praise of Brooks saddles
On 12/13/2019 8:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/13/2019 7:53 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 2:57:00 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote: On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 10:59:46 -0800 (PST), Chalo wrote: Tom Kunich wrote: "pro-capitalist"? You don't believe that you should have to make your own way in this life? That the F-ing world owes you a living? No, I believe working people deserve fair compensation, and simply having wealth doesn't entitle you to the spoils of others' labor. I believe money should be a public utility and not a treasure hoard. And I believe that economic surpluses should serve the needy and the public good, not allow the development of perversions like billionaires. I believe the world doesn't owe rich fux a living just for being rich. Oh! You mean like Bill Gates? Or maybe Larry Page? Or Sergey Brin? Or even Mark Zuckerberg? I could go on, I suppose, but what's the sense, as you know that the world doesn't owe rich fux a living just for being rich.... even when they made the money themselves. As for money being a "public utility"? Hey, a really great idea! And how much of your salary will you be committing to this scheme? I think Chalo's point would be that those men did not make money themselves. Gates, for example, didn't write a line of code for DOS. He bought it from a guy who worked in a local computer shop. It was a rip-off of CPM. Gates made some good moves when IBM came calling looking for an operating system, and the rest is history. Gates was certainly captain of the ship, but he had a crew and ultimately a huge crew. The question is whether the crew was well treated, and judging by Seattle, Redmond and Medina, I would say yes. Does Gates pay enough in taxes? Maybe yes and maybe no -- Chalo would certainly say no, and in 1958, the answer would certainly be no. He would be in an 80% tax bracket. I think it's undeniable that if you compare someone like Bill Gates with an equally intelligent and motivated black kid in the inner city, and if they both had precisely the same idea for a business, the black kid would have far, far less chance of getting rich. The difference was not the dollar value of his inheritance. It was the background, the opportunities, the connections. The differences will probably be there forever. If your dad is a prominent lawyer, you'll be able to meet and become familiar with a lot more influential people than if your dad is a janitor. IOW, "The poor you will always have with you." But once someone is pulling in an income that's 100 times what anyone needs to live in reasonable comfort, they should be paying a much greater percentage of it to help keep our society functioning. Hell, if it just went for pothole repair, that would be something. How many Maseratis or luxury homes does someone deserve? It is tough setting brackets at a place that generates enough revenue to run the country but avoids capital flight. Tax policy is not easy. The Trump cuts, however, were just foolish. They resulted in a massive deficit with no trickle-down to ordinary Americans -- who will get left holding the tab. Trump is now filling budget holes with tariffs and SNAP and TANF cuts. Ordinary Americans will pay the price of corporate tax rate cuts without any reduction in the price of goods. It's not like corporate America is passing on the tax savings to consumers. I totally understand young people pointing out the massive wealth gap and the unfairness of the system -- although that is not a reason to ****-can the system. It just needs fixing in a non-torch and pitchfork way. Yes. And making the tax system more progressive isn't torching the system. It's worked before. The US tax system is among the most punitively 'progressive' on earth already. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#47
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In praise of Brooks saddles
John B. wrote:
But why do you insist making your comparison with a society that has, in many cases, been "on the dole" for generations, that apparently has no motivation what so ever to hold a job. [...] Or to put it another way, how do you help someone who makes no effort to help himself? Your eagerness to conflate "no motivation to hold a job" and "no effort to help himself" with unwillingness to contribute to or participate in a system that has cheated and repressed him/her for hundreds of years, and continues to do so, is duly noted. You are entitled to your opinion, but it would make more sense after appropriately scaled reparations are made in full. As for me, I withhold my participation in a corrupt and broken economic system by only working for my friends (for as little time and money as I can manage to survive on), buying the minimum necessary of the cheapest and simplest possible supplies, making and salvaging almost everything else, and freely gifting and bartering my time and abilities. The first rule of not being manipulated is to minimize the places where your adversary can get a grip on you. Having too deep a vested interest in a bad way of doing things makes you a worse person. Just look at what car ownership has done to people's character and scruples. The pursuit of money is even worse. And to judge by results, the possession of a concentration of wealth is worst of all. |
#48
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In praise of Brooks saddles
On 12/14/2019 9:10 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/13/2019 8:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: Yes. And making the tax system more progressive isn't torching the system. It's worked before. The US tax system is among the most punitively 'progressive' on earth already. Got numbers on that? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#49
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In praise of Brooks saddles
On 12/14/2019 9:40 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2019 9:10 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 12/13/2019 8:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: Yes. And making the tax system more progressive isn't torching the system. It's worked before. The US tax system is among the most punitively 'progressive' on earth already. Got numbers on that? 16th of 195 : https://www.investopedia.com/taxes/c...-income-taxes/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#50
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In praise of Brooks saddles
On 12/14/2019 9:32 AM, Chalo wrote:
John B. wrote: But why do you insist making your comparison with a society that has, in many cases, been "on the dole" for generations, that apparently has no motivation what so ever to hold a job. [...] Or to put it another way, how do you help someone who makes no effort to help himself? Your eagerness to conflate "no motivation to hold a job" and "no effort to help himself" with unwillingness to contribute to or participate in a system that has cheated and repressed him/her for hundreds of years, and continues to do so, is duly noted. You are entitled to your opinion, but it would make more sense after appropriately scaled reparations are made in full. As for me, I withhold my participation in a corrupt and broken economic system by only working for my friends (for as little time and money as I can manage to survive on), buying the minimum necessary of the cheapest and simplest possible supplies, making and salvaging almost everything else, and freely gifting and bartering my time and abilities. The first rule of not being manipulated is to minimize the places where your adversary can get a grip on you. Having too deep a vested interest in a bad way of doing things makes you a worse person. Just look at what car ownership has done to people's character and scruples. The pursuit of money is even worse. And to judge by results, the possession of a concentration of wealth is worst of all. Centuries of oppression? Sure, pretty average experience actually: http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/myusa.jpg Or as a famous actor said, "You say you can't escape your ghetto? Bus leaves every day." -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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