OT! Fact check

On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 06:43:37 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer.
The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states.

Wrong. It's a republic.

And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders
feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the
majority discriminating permanently against the minority.

Yep. Tyranny of the Masses:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
They were less afraid of an American George III than they were afraid
of being ruled by the GUM (Great Unwashed Masses). The founders were
not particularly interested in protecting the rights of the GUM, but
were forced to enact a Bill of Rights when it seemed likely that there
would be a second revolution (mostly by the army) if something wasn't
done to appease the them and protect them from their own government.
https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/digital-encyclopedia/article/newburgh-conspiracy/
I sometimes wonder if the founders made a mistake by not crowning
George Washington as king:
https://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-events/was-george-washington-really-offered-king-us.htm

History belongs to the editors.

It is the most successful governmental system, second only to
the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't
even know the first thing about it.

I'm not sure what you mean by successful. The modern democracies are
doing their best to become more communist or socialist. The modern
former communist and former socialist countries are trying to become
more capitalist, and presumably eventually become something resembling
a democracy. Much of the middle east has rolled back to 13th century
style theocracies. Europe is doing its best to preserve various
monarchies. Africa can't seem to abandon tribalism. The view from
here seems to be that none of the modern governments are particularly
happy with their existing governmental systems and are looking
elsewhere or into their past for something better.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 4/24/2020 9:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/24/2020 7:01 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 10:54:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/24/2020 1:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Hopes are dimming for chloroquine, with or without beer chaser.
https://tinyurl.com/yackhn56

Trump will now promote sunlamps and Lysol injections. I get so much
comfort from these daily addresses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33QdTOyXz3wÂ* They're like FDR's
Fireside Chats except by a lunatic uncle.Â* The reaction shots are
precious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d57zJr82dhQÂ* Dr. Birx has
the same expression I have during a prostate exam. God bless America!

To me, the most distressing thing is this: No matter what obvious,
proven bull**** is spouted off the cuff by this idiot, his fans find no
fault. Instead, they find ways of twisting the facts to absolve his
idiocy, to pretend he's actually competent.

I fear for our country.

Well snowflake, you'd feel better if you shined a sunlamp up your a**!
Get on board the Trump train!

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-no-experience
We now have the "no experience" data point.

-- Jay Beattie.


Thank you for your continued support. Of the President:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/lefts-...e-elect-trump/

You mean you managed to find a bitter right-wing hack writer at a
sensationalist tabloid paper who supports Trump?

Whoa! Who could have predicted that??


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 08:13:08 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:
IMO, our problem is that we have only two real political parties.
-- Jay Beattie.

Careful what you wish for. It may not be what you expect. That's
what happened in Israel, which recognized the limitations of the
British parliamentary system in 1947 and tried to fix them with
proportional representation. The result is the current 120 member
Knesset, with 12 major political parties, none of which hold a
majority:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Israel
Instead, the larger parties form coalitions with smaller parties.
These have creative names that have little to do with their advocacy.
Add to that a large number of small parties that couldn't obtain the
necessary 3.25% of the vote needed to obtain a seat in the Knesset.
The resulting coalitions sometimes include parties with opposing
views:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_political_parties_in_Israel
Incidentally, click on the "Election" column heading to sort the
parties by their most recent election. Note the interesting names of
the parties that have appeared in the last few years.

Two parties might be a problem, but 50 parties is a mess.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:53:07 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 06:43:37 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer.
The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states.

Wrong. It's a republic.

Funny, it is named "The United States of America".

And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders
feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the
majority discriminating permanently against the minority.

Yep. Tyranny of the Masses:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
They were less afraid of an American George III than they were afraid
of being ruled by the GUM (Great Unwashed Masses). The founders were
not particularly interested in protecting the rights of the GUM, but
were forced to enact a Bill of Rights when it seemed likely that there
would be a second revolution (mostly by the army) if something wasn't
done to appease the them and protect them from their own government.
https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/digital-encyclopedia/article/newburgh-conspiracy/
I sometimes wonder if the founders made a mistake by not crowning
George Washington as king:
https://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-events/was-george-washington-really-offered-king-us.htm

History belongs to the editors.

It is the most successful governmental system, second only to
the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't
even know the first thing about it.

I'm not sure what you mean by successful. The modern democracies are
doing their best to become more communist or socialist. The modern
former communist and former socialist countries are trying to become
more capitalist, and presumably eventually become something resembling
a democracy. Much of the middle east has rolled back to 13th century
style theocracies. Europe is doing its best to preserve various
monarchies. Africa can't seem to abandon tribalism. The view from
here seems to be that none of the modern governments are particularly
happy with their existing governmental systems and are looking
elsewhere or into their past for something better.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 08:15:35 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 00:24:28 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:01:15 -0700, jbeattie wrote:

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 10:54:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

To me, the most distressing thing is this: No matter what obvious,
proven bull**** is spouted off the cuff by this idiot, his fans find
no fault. Instead, they find ways of twisting the facts to absolve
his idiocy, to pretend he's actually competent.

I fear for our country.

Well snowflake, you'd feel better if you shined a sunlamp up your a**!
Get on board the Trump train!

YMMV, but isn't is better to continue to wear yur arse/ass mask as
normal so your farts don't spread Covid-19

soz, no link but io understnad a "norman swan podcast of this has gone
viral

To corroborate your post I did read a day or so ago an article
suggesting that "you guys" wash your hands after using the toilet as the
virus count in feces was far higher than in exhaled air :-)

But a "mask" is not required to suppress farts simply hold a lit match
or cigarette lighter by your bum when you let one go.

I've heard of the results of that "experiment".
Sometimes the 'flames' sprea faster than the spincter closes.

On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 04:04:25 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 08:15:35 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 00:24:28 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:01:15 -0700, jbeattie wrote:

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 10:54:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

To me, the most distressing thing is this: No matter what obvious,
proven bull**** is spouted off the cuff by this idiot, his fans find
no fault. Instead, they find ways of twisting the facts to absolve
his idiocy, to pretend he's actually competent.

I fear for our country.

Well snowflake, you'd feel better if you shined a sunlamp up your a**!
Get on board the Trump train!

YMMV, but isn't is better to continue to wear yur arse/ass mask as
normal so your farts don't spread Covid-19

soz, no link but io understnad a "norman swan podcast of this has gone
viral

To corroborate your post I did read a day or so ago an article
suggesting that "you guys" wash your hands after using the toilet as the
virus count in feces was far higher than in exhaled air :-)

But a "mask" is not required to suppress farts simply hold a lit match
or cigarette lighter by your bum when you let one go.

I've heard of the results of that "experiment".
Sometimes the 'flames' sprea faster than the spincter closes.

I read that "muzzle velocity" can be as high as 3 mt./second so
perhaps have a friend hold the match at a distance.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 4/24/2020 8:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 6:08:16 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/24/2020 7:01 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 10:54:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/24/2020 1:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Hopes are dimming for chloroquine, with or without beer chaser. https://tinyurl.com/yackhn56

Trump will now promote sunlamps and Lysol injections. I get so much comfort from these daily addresses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33QdTOyXz3w They're like FDR's Fireside Chats except by a lunatic uncle. The reaction shots are precious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d57zJr82dhQ Dr. Birx has the same expression I have during a prostate exam. God bless America!

To me, the most distressing thing is this: No matter what obvious,
proven bull**** is spouted off the cuff by this idiot, his fans find no
fault. Instead, they find ways of twisting the facts to absolve his
idiocy, to pretend he's actually competent.

I fear for our country.

Well snowflake, you'd feel better if you shined a sunlamp up your a**! Get on board the Trump train!

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-no-experience We now have the "no experience" data point.

-- Jay Beattie.


Thank you for your continued support. Of the President:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/lefts-...e-elect-trump/

Sad isn't it. People get mad and elect a dope. It's like revenge sex with a syphilitic. Not that Biden is any catch. One would hope for better choices.

-- Jay Beattie.





His actions infuriate me on a daily basis. His flaws are
great. His unforced errors are pathetic.

But of the last four Presidents he's the first to push back
on China's 30-year Plan and has done more good than evil.
Yesterday's example (after I was done screaming at the radio
over more idiocy) the 2002 program for electronic monitoring
of the border is now in place after years of dithering.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...dispatched-us/

contrast to:
https://spectator.org/chinagate-and-the-clintons/
(note NYT reportage cited)



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/24/2020 9:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 08:13:08 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:
IMO, our problem is that we have only two real political parties.
-- Jay Beattie.

Careful what you wish for. It may not be what you expect. That's
what happened in Israel, which recognized the limitations of the
British parliamentary system in 1947 and tried to fix them with
proportional representation. The result is the current 120 member
Knesset, with 12 major political parties, none of which hold a
majority:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Israel
Instead, the larger parties form coalitions with smaller parties.
These have creative names that have little to do with their advocacy.
Add to that a large number of small parties that couldn't obtain the
necessary 3.25% of the vote needed to obtain a seat in the Knesset.
The resulting coalitions sometimes include parties with opposing
views:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_political_parties_in_Israel
Incidentally, click on the "Election" column heading to sort the
parties by their most recent election. Note the interesting names of
the parties that have appeared in the last few years.

Two parties might be a problem, but 50 parties is a mess.


Shed a tear for Italy as well. We should not want that mess
for ourselves!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 2:53:10 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 06:43:37 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

For heaven's sake, Slow Johnny, go read a kiddies' civics primer.
The United States is not a democracy. It is a federation of states.

Wrong. It's a republic.

Man, I'm being pecked to death -- or at least boredom -- by kibbitzers with time on their hands. They don't need your help. Your "contribution" on this particular point takes this form, which you'll instantly recognise as ridiculous:

Jute: Britain has a parliamentary system.

Liebermann: Rubbish, it's a monarchy.

Technically, both remarks, the one you actually made and the one I ascribe to you above, are true but in effect they are sand you're kicking into my eyes. Another fact is vastly more important than the one you're promoting.

And the reason there is an electoral college is because the founders
feared the demos and built in the electoral college to prevent the
majority discriminating permanently against the minority.

Yep. Tyranny of the Masses:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
They were less afraid of an American George III than they were afraid
of being ruled by the GUM (Great Unwashed Masses). The founders were
not particularly interested in protecting the rights of the GUM, but
were forced to enact a Bill of Rights when it seemed likely that there
would be a second revolution (mostly by the army) if something wasn't
done to appease the them and protect them from their own government.
https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/digital-encyclopedia/article/newburgh-conspiracy/
I sometimes wonder if the founders made a mistake by not crowning
George Washington as king:
https://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-events/was-george-washington-really-offered-king-us.htm

Washington was horrified by the idea, presumably because of the hereditary aspect of monarchy as it was known then. (Today there are other forms known, for instance in both Jordan and Saudi Arabia the outgoing king chooses his successor without the need to consider primogeniture.)

History belongs to the editors.

I'm an editor, but decidedly odd in liking truth better than political bias.. It wasn't always so, though.

It is the most successful governmental system, second only to
the Westminster system, in the world's history, and you don't
even know the first thing about it.

I'm not sure what you mean by successful.

Survival is symptomatic of success. Not descending into the barbarism of tyranny is another sign of success.

The modern democracies are
doing their best to become more communist or socialist. The modern
former communist and former socialist countries are trying to become
more capitalist, and presumably eventually become something resembling
a democracy. Much of the middle east has rolled back to 13th century
style theocracies. Europe is doing its best to preserve various
monarchies. Africa can't seem to abandon tribalism. The view from
here seems to be that none of the modern governments are particularly
happy with their existing governmental systems and are looking
elsewhere or into their past for something better.

See, that ferment is a symptom of freedom to choose, including the freedom to choose wrong.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Andre Jute
Lightly stirred. -- Ian Fleming's James Bond

On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 6:38:56 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/24/2020 8:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 6:08:16 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/24/2020 7:01 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 10:54:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/24/2020 1:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Hopes are dimming for chloroquine, with or without beer chaser. https://tinyurl.com/yackhn56

Trump will now promote sunlamps and Lysol injections. I get so much comfort from these daily addresses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33QdTOyXz3w They're like FDR's Fireside Chats except by a lunatic uncle. The reaction shots are precious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d57zJr82dhQ Dr. Birx has the same expression I have during a prostate exam. God bless America!

To me, the most distressing thing is this: No matter what obvious,
proven bull**** is spouted off the cuff by this idiot, his fans find no
fault. Instead, they find ways of twisting the facts to absolve his
idiocy, to pretend he's actually competent.

I fear for our country.

Well snowflake, you'd feel better if you shined a sunlamp up your a**! Get on board the Trump train!

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-no-experience We now have the "no experience" data point.

-- Jay Beattie.


Thank you for your continued support. Of the President:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/lefts-...e-elect-trump/

Sad isn't it. People get mad and elect a dope. It's like revenge sex with a syphilitic. Not that Biden is any catch. One would hope for better choices.

-- Jay Beattie.





His actions infuriate me on a daily basis. His flaws are
great. His unforced errors are pathetic.

But of the last four Presidents he's the first to push back
on China's 30-year Plan and has done more good than evil.
Yesterday's example (after I was done screaming at the radio
over more idiocy) the 2002 program for electronic monitoring
of the border is now in place after years of dithering.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...dispatched-us/

contrast to:
https://spectator.org/chinagate-and-the-clintons/
(note NYT reportage cited)

Trump has done far more evil than good by undermining the social institutions and norms that have held us together for almost 250 years. He's elevated lying to an art-form. Even before the pandemic, he had accumulated staggering debt, trickle-down didn't work again; he ruined our world brand, unwound important relationships with other nations, etc., etc. Those things matter.

And where have we gotten with China? Is there a trade deal that amounts to anything more than a tariff armistice? In the old days, we would have formed partnerships to gain leverage against the Chinese and made efforts to avoid the gaming and disruptions we see today. And what electronic monitoring program? The Enhanced Border Security and Visa Reform Act of 2002, H.R. 3525 promoted facial recognition for border crossings and not army cameras pointed off into the desert -- or the type of electronic surveillance that Trump criticized in favor of his physical walls. Maybe the army cameras are a good thing -- who knows, but they're unrelated to prior legislation or any sustained "virtual wall" -- which has been promoted more vigorously by the opposition than Trump.

-- Jay Beattie.