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SYD: bicycles on the Old Road



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 26th 06, 10:16 AM posted to aus.bicycle
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Default SYD: bicycles on the Old Road

Long shot, this being melb.bicycles and all, but is there anyone
reading who rides a bicycle on the Old Road?

Reason I ask is that the Motor Cycle Council has heard disquieting rumours
about how some cyclists are planning to try and baulk motorcycles by
spreading wide as the bike approaches, and some motorcyclists plan to
kybosh this by riding between the cyclists and "scaring them by
swerving".

You can imagine what a bloody stupid idea it is on both sides....

So the MCC of NSW (www.mccofnsw.org.au), being interested in everyone's
road safety, and defnitely not wanting powered or unpowered two wheelers
going rubberside up, wants to talk to cyclists, recreational and training,
who use the Old Pacific Hwy and other popular motorcycle hooning roads.

So we can work with cyclists and educate cyclists about motorcycles and
motorcyclists about cycles. So we can share the road and not interfere
with each other's fun anymore than we have to.

What the MCC is after is finding out why cyclists behave as they do,
what effect motorcycles have, how they deal with it, what changes they
would like to see, what education they think motorcyclists need, what
changes they can make in their own behaviour, and what road safety ideas
they have for the road and other similar roads.

For example, both powered and unpowered two wheelers would probably
benefit from better road sweeping! And better maintainance of the
shoulder generally. IF the shoulder was usable for cyclists, then there's
more room for cyclists and motorcyclists in the same lane. If it's not
then the cyclist has to be further out and then the motorcyclist has
to go even further out. And motorcyclists don't like **** all over the
apex of left handers anymore than cyclists do...

Another idea that occurred is Bobbin Head Road. The surface is
disgusting now, but if it was resurfaced, would it be a preferable
training track for masochists, I mean road racers who train on hills,
than the Old Road? Motorised vehicles have to pay to enter the park,
cyclists don't. If it was resurfaced, would cyclists prefer it to the
Old Road seeing as it's motorcycle-free and mostly car-free?

I'd like to chat in person to cyclists who use the Old Road. I'm planning
to take a cruise there on a weekend to chat to the bods at Pie in
the Sky, but also track any training bunches and chat when they stop.
But be nice to arrange some talking so I'm not accused of stalking

Of course input from other riders is useful too. i

Why do you ride on the Old Road? Or other hilly twisty roads? Because
it's nearby? BEcause you need the work on hills? Because it's fun?
Because there's nowhere else without traffic lights? The view is good
and the hard work's good for you?

When you hear a vehicle coming up behind, can you tell it's a motorcycle
reliably?

If it is, what's your reaction to it? Does that change if it's a
straight or a corner, right hander or left hander?

Does it make a difference if you are just out for a ride, or seriously
in a training mindset?

When you are out on a twisty bit of road, do you like to ride in a
bunch (law or no law) or singlefile wheelsucking all the way? Do you
prefer to ride 2 abreast? How do you decide to pick a particular
configuration?

Do you find that when you are hammering and a motorcycle's coming
doing the same thing that you have to pull in and it disrupts you?
Or do you just figure "the one behind has to pass" and keep your line?
Do you usually get enough time to think about a reaction?

Do they pass too close? How close is too close? Have you been cut
off in a corner? Have you been sprayed with bluemetal as someone
apexes in front of you?

What good experiences have you had with motorcycles out for a fang?
What bad ones?

Who has had the patience to read this far?

Zebee
Ads
  #2  
Old February 26th 06, 10:54 AM posted to aus.bicycle
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Default SYD: bicycles on the Old Road


Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
Long shot, this being melb.bicycles and all, but is there anyone reading
who rides a bicycle on the Old Road?


I heard that.

Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
Who has had the patience to read this far?


I did. Seriously though, have you posted this request out to other
cycling forums? Can forward it to the Syd CM list, BFA or Farkin if you
wish. For what it's worth I've recently subscribed to the netrider forum
as I maybe getting a moto in the future.

And a little birdy told me you were in the market for a 'bent?


--
cfsmtb

  #3  
Old February 26th 06, 11:37 AM posted to aus.bicycle
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Default bicycles on the Old Road


Zebee Johnstone wrote -

What the MCC is after is finding out why cyclists behave as they do,
what effect motorcycles have, how they deal with it, what changes they
would like to see...

The old pacific hwy is the preferred route north after Hornsby for cyclists.

The alternative is the shoulder of the F3 and that's not much fun although I
have found it quicker on the couple of times I have tried it (riding up to
Cessnock and back). Boring noisy and full of crap on the shoulder.

In addition there is pretty frequently used time trial course up on Peats
Rdige Road near Calga used monthly by the ATTA folk and less frequently but
in greater numbers for State open cycling races and time trials.

In addition, Northern Sydney Cycling Club use an industrial road off the old
highway called Beaumont Rd as a criterium road race course most Sundays and
the bunchs that ride out of Turramurra Cycling would regard riding up to
Calga and back as their "block". All of that means that its a very popular
road for cyclists.

I'd like to chat in person to cyclists who use the Old Road.


Best contact I can think of is Mark Rowling who owns Turramurra Cycling and
who indidentally races motorcycles - much loved by his cycling customers who
despair at his occasional off on the motor race tracks.

When you are out on a twisty bit of road, do you like to ride in a
bunch (law or no law) or singlefile wheelsucking all the way? Do you
prefer to ride 2 abreast? How do you decide to pick a particular
configuration?


For mine as an occasional user of the road I don't think the bunchs
generally behave any differently for motorcycles - and some of us do or have
ridden both so I would not assume hostility; mutual curiousity would be a
better description. Riding 2 side by side in a lane is lawful for cyclists
throughout Australia.

I have never seen a cycling bunch try to get agressive accross the road -
who do you think would win that confrontation in terms of mass and velocity?
The bunch will hold their lane and their lines and call motorcycles front or
back as they would a car.

Some links that may be useful to you -


http://www.northernsydneycyclingclub...15&Itemi d=29

and

http://www.turramurracyclery.com.au/

best, Andrew (who used to own a vfr 750)


  #4  
Old February 26th 06, 12:09 PM posted to aus.bicycle
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Default SYD: bicycles on the Old Road

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 26 Feb 2006 20:54:56 +1100
cfsmtb wrote:


I did. Seriously though, have you posted this request out to other
cycling forums? Can forward it to the Syd CM list, BFA or Farkin if you
wish. For what it's worth I've recently subscribed to the netrider forum
as I maybe getting a moto in the future.


Yes, if you like, although it would need to be clear I'm not
subscribed to them, so people would have to contact me directly.


And a little birdy told me you were in the market for a 'bent?


*grin* I wasn't going to say anything till it was in my hot little
hands, but there's a Giro 20 on its way to me as we speak.

Well not quite, as the cranks are at GreenSpeed getting shortened, so
I won't see it till next weekend.

Then I get to work up to riding it from Campsie to North Sydney
without a) knackering myself so much I find reasons not to do it again
and b) without meeting immovable objects.

Zebee
  #5  
Old February 26th 06, 12:11 PM posted to aus.bicycle
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Default bicycles on the Old Road


"Zebee Johnstone" wrote in message
.. .
Long shot, this being melb.bicycles and all, but is there anyone
reading who rides a bicycle on the Old Road?


Well I ride in Melbourne, but I'd guess the sitiation in Sydney is pretty
much the same as on the Kinglake Rd or Reefton Spur on any Sunday.

snip

When you hear a vehicle coming up behind, can you tell it's a motorcycle
reliably?


Yes.

If it is, what's your reaction to it? Does that change if it's a
straight or a corner, right hander or left hander?


Usually ride predictably following my line. Usually not enough time to make
any changes anyhow.

Does it make a difference if you are just out for a ride, or seriously
in a training mindset?


No.

When you are out on a twisty bit of road, do you like to ride in a
bunch (law or no law) or singlefile wheelsucking all the way? Do you
prefer to ride 2 abreast? How do you decide to pick a particular
configuration?


Usually ride single file on winding roads, unless it is a quiet minor road.
Then with friends we might ride in a small 2 abreast bunch.

Do you find that when you are hammering and a motorcycle's coming
doing the same thing that you have to pull in and it disrupts you?
Or do you just figure "the one behind has to pass" and keep your line?


Keep the line

Do you usually get enough time to think about a reaction?


No

Do they pass too close? How close is too close? Have you been cut
off in a corner? Have you been sprayed with bluemetal as someone
apexes in front of you?


When you get GT-wannabes careering past with less than a metre to spare, at
80-120kmh leaned over in the apex of a left hander, with a sudden cracking
roar of a race-tuned illegal exhaust, it trully sucks. I hurl volumes of
silent abuse, and thank God I never took up such a socially obnoxious
pursuit as motorbiking.

Get my drift?

What good experiences have you had with motorcycles out for a fang?


None

Cheers
Peter


  #6  
Old February 26th 06, 10:24 PM posted to aus.bicycle
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Default SYD: bicycles on the Old Road

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:16:52 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:

Another idea that occurred is Bobbin Head Road. The surface is
disgusting now, but if it was resurfaced, would it be a preferable
training track for masochists, I mean road racers who train on hills,
than the Old Road?


Doubt it. The surface isn't that bad, except for a hundred metres or so on
the Turramurra side near the bottom. The big problem is it's only 4km on
the long side though, which isn't that much unless you're doing laps.
Going from gate to gate and return only comes out to about 20km, and
although it's a bit of a hill that's just not long enough for anything but
a quick blat - and I'm not even a roadie.

West Head would be a more attractive option if there was a cafe at the
end... After all, they're roadies, so it's about how cool you look at the
cafe, not about actual riding. g,d&r

I'd like to chat in person to cyclists who use the Old Road.


Give Turramurra Cyclery a call. They'll be able to put you on to any
largish groups running up that way.

Who has had the patience to read this far?


Nope, not me.

--
Dave Hughes |
"We have the concentration span of 10 year old ADD children who have
just eaten a tube of toothpaste." Dr Chris

  #7  
Old February 26th 06, 10:27 PM posted to aus.bicycle
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Default SYD: bicycles on the Old Road

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 20:54:56 +1100, cfsmtb wrote:

Farkin


Farkin? About road riding? Eeeep!

--
Dave Hughes |
"There are some benefits to high blood pressure", Bob mused as another
mosquito exploded. -- unknown, Bulwer-Lytton entry

  #8  
Old February 26th 06, 10:30 PM posted to aus.bicycle
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Default SYD: bicycles on the Old Road

On 2006-02-26, Random Data (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:16:52 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:

Another idea that occurred is Bobbin Head Road. The surface is
disgusting now, but if it was resurfaced, would it be a preferable
training track for masochists, I mean road racers who train on hills,
than the Old Road?


Doubt it. The surface isn't that bad, except for a hundred metres or so on
the Turramurra side near the bottom. The big problem is it's only 4km on
the long side though, which isn't that much unless you're doing laps.
Going from gate to gate and return only comes out to about 20km, and
although it's a bit of a hill that's just not long enough for anything but
a quick blat - and I'm not even a roadie.


Roadies have short attention spans, remember.

West Head would be a more attractive option if there was a cafe at the
end... After all, they're roadies, so it's about how cool you look at the
cafe, not about actual riding. g,d&r


I'll run with you

Who has had the patience to read this far?


Nope, not me.


Me neither.

--
TimC
Can Jesus heat a microwave burrito so much he can't eat it?
-- Homer Simpson asking an incredibly intelligent question of Ned Flanders
  #9  
Old February 26th 06, 11:18 PM posted to aus.bicycle
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Default SYD: bicycles on the Old Road

In article ,
Zebee Johnstone wrote:

the Motor Cycle Council has heard disquieting rumours
about how some cyclists are planning to try and baulk motorcycles by
spreading wide as the bike approaches, and some motorcyclists plan to
kybosh this by riding between the cyclists and "scaring them by
swerving".


Sydney certainly sounds like *the* place to get around on two wheels at
present! What the hell? Something in the water?

Why do you ride on the Old Road?


I don't, thankfully it seems.

Or other hilly twisty roads? Because
it's nearby? BEcause you need the work on hills? Because it's fun?
Because there's nowhere else without traffic lights? The view is good
and the hard work's good for you?


Most of the above.

When you hear a vehicle coming up behind, can you tell it's a motorcycle
reliably?


Yes.

If it is, what's your reaction to it?


Relief that it's not a truck or ute.

Does that change if it's a
straight or a corner, right hander or left hander?


Not really.

Does it make a difference if you are just out for a ride, or seriously
in a training mindset?


No.

When you are out on a twisty bit of road, do you like to ride in a
bunch (law or no law) or singlefile wheelsucking all the way? Do you
prefer to ride 2 abreast? How do you decide to pick a particular
configuration?


It depends on the width of the road, whether we're taking it easy or
not, the state of the conversation.

Do you find that when you are hammering and a motorcycle's coming
doing the same thing that you have to pull in and it disrupts you?
Or do you just figure "the one behind has to pass" and keep your line?
Do you usually get enough time to think about a reaction?


I keep my line. I can't recall a passing motorcyclist ever showing any
sign of annoyance at this.

Do they pass too close?


I can't recall that ever happening.

Have you been cut off in a corner?


No.

Have you been sprayed with bluemetal as someone apexes in front of you?


No, but most of the roads I'm on don't have loose metal. I'd be very
****ed off if it did happen, though.

What good experiences have you had with motorcycles out for a fang?
What bad ones?


They use the road and I use the road, and about the only time there's
any concern is when an oncoming motorcycle cuts a corner a bit too much.

Who has had the patience to read this far?


Whew.

--
Shane Stanley
  #10  
Old February 27th 06, 01:16 AM posted to aus.bicycle
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Default bicycles on the Old Road


"Zebee Johnstone" wrote in message
.. .
Reason I ask is that the Motor Cycle Council has heard disquieting rumours
about how some cyclists are planning to try and baulk motorcycles by
spreading wide as the bike approaches, and some motorcyclists plan to
kybosh this by riding between the cyclists and "scaring them by
swerving".

You can imagine what a bloody stupid idea it is on both sides....


Zebee,

IMHO this highlights the need for both MC and cycling advocacy to finally
get together to 'sort a few things out'.
Given that both cyclists and motorcyclists are both marginalised minority
road users, who receive probably equal amounts of stereotyped flack for just
existing on the road (see Peter S's comments for example "thank God I never
took up such a socially obnoxious pursuit as motorbiking." - there's nothing
like tarring everyone with the same brush!! )

By 'sorting things out' I mean that many of the issues faced by both
cyclists and motorcyclists are the same, but they don't seem to realise it.
The benefits of each of these types of transport are remarkably similar (to
both the community and the individual). The types of crashes they are
involved in are very similar. "SMIDSY" (Sorry Mate I didn't See You) is
something only motorcyclists and cyclists understand. The cases they put to
governments are nearly identical.

So why can't cycling and motorcycling representative groups for the first
time in Australia be allies instead of opponents? Just understanding each
other's (very similar) points of view would be a nice start, instead of
taking the "holier than thou" stance..... Both of these road user groups are
seen as 'socially irresponsible' by the majority of tip-tops out there....

Gemm
(Divides time between a Wilier with Dura Ace and a Suzuki SV650)


 




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