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#11
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Police pick on cyclist
David Hansen wrote:
I see that the police have picked on another cyclist in Edinburgh http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp. If the report is true then the cyclist had working lights on his bike, though they may have been dim. Thus he was not committing an offence and the police had no grounds to ask him for his name and address. Thus the arrest was illegal, just like the fixed penalty notice. Just because a cyclist has a set of working lights on his bike, does not mean that the lights are legal as primary lights. A cyclist could be lit up like a christmas tree, and yet still get prosecuted for having no lights if none of the lights are primary lights. "Mr Cimini shone his front light in one officer's face to prove it was working and it was at this point that it emerged the light had begun to fade because it was low on battery power." If the light was dim when he turned it back on to shine it in the cops face, then it was probably even dimmer just before he turned it off. I do think that as Mr Cimini was making had some lights on his bike, he should have just been given a ticking off, but then shinning it in the cops face would not help his cause. Martin. |
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#12
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Police pick on cyclist
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:48:16 +0000 someone who may be Roger Thorpe
wrote this:- And like many a person who thinks themself law-abiding, the middle class offender is shocked to be treated like a criminal or even "a vagrant". In this case it is not in the least clear whether the person was an offender or not. If the person was not an offender then the subsequent police actions were illegal and the only offenders were the police officers themselves. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
#13
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Police pick on cyclist
Given the small amount of information we have it's possible to build up
a picture of events where the rider is an arse just as easily as one can make a picture where the policeman is an arse. I was picked up like this about thirty years ago, and got provoked into being an arse myself. At least I did get a (long) anecdote out of it, but I won't repeat it here. Roger Thorpe |
#14
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Police pick on cyclist
"pk" wrote in message ... "David Hansen" wrote in message ... http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp. Rough translation: "the cyclist got lippy and tried to be clever by shining the "light" in the officer's face" so they nicked him. pk That sounds like what may have happened. If you show Police disrespect they will go to town on you. Being a sociology lecturer he's the sort of person who might be a bit bolshie. Catch a pig on the wrong day, and this is what happens. Count himself lucky he didn't get tasered, clubbed or shot. Also some people get very nervous near threatening authority types in peaked caps, as I do, even though they've done nothing wrong. This can cause normally decent rational people to misbehave in odd and irrational ways. In my area cyclists seem to cycle along with no lights, some in Ninja mode, with impunity. I would sort of appreciate it if the Police beat up a few cycle nutters here. Wouldn't it be cheaper for everyone if the Police just handed out £10 sets of lights and be done with the problem. |
#15
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Police pick on cyclist
David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:49:56 -0800 (PST) someone who may be calum wrote this:- The report states he was stopped for not showing *any* lights, The report reports the claims of the police. That does not prove that he was not showing *any* lights. It may be that the police simply failed to spot the lights amongst the general array of lights on the road, it may be that the police were unable to see them as the police were not in the right position (for example looking from the side), If the police failed to spot his lights amongst the general array of lights, then Mr Cimini needs to think if he needs more/better lights on his bike. Some of the LED lights I see are very dim against a background of other lights, which is why I am a big flashing lights. "Officers told the 30-year-old they had spotted him cycling along the busy Tollcross Street without any lights on..." Read on to the next bit after the three dots, "But Mr Cimini challenged this, claiming he had left his flat with both lights working". That is the odd thing, if he did have working lights, then the police should have just let him get on his way. |
#16
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Police pick on cyclist
"Martin" wrote in message ... David Hansen wrote: I see that the police have picked on another cyclist in Edinburgh http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp. If the report is true then the cyclist had working lights on his bike, though they may have been dim. Thus he was not committing an offence and the police had no grounds to ask him for his name and address. Thus the arrest was illegal, just like the fixed penalty notice. Just because a cyclist has a set of working lights on his bike, does not mean that the lights are legal as primary lights. A cyclist could be lit up like a christmas tree, and yet still get prosecuted for having no lights if none of the lights are primary lights. "Mr Cimini shone his front light in one officer's face to prove it was working and it was at this point that it emerged the light had begun to fade because it was low on battery power." If the light was dim when he turned it back on to shine it in the cops face, then it was probably even dimmer just before he turned it off. I do think that as Mr Cimini was making had some lights on his bike, he should have just been given a ticking off, but then shinning it in the cops face would not help his cause. Martin. Could he have just said "Yes sir... I'll get it fixed straight away sir... three bags full sir." Most coppers (well from experience 20 to 30 years ago) would tend not to pursue someone who is respectful and compliant back. |
#17
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Police pick on cyclist
Light of Aria wrote:
"pk" wrote in message ... "David Hansen" wrote in message ... http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp. Rough translation: "the cyclist got lippy and tried to be clever by shining the "light" in the officer's face" so they nicked him. pk That sounds like what may have happened. If you show Police disrespect they will go to town on you. Being a sociology lecturer he's the sort of person who might be a bit bolshie. Catch a pig on the wrong day, and this is what happens. Count himself lucky he didn't get tasered, clubbed or shot. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5224058.ece Comrade Smith was talking about issuing the police with 10,000 tasers, but the Met say they don't want to be routinely armed with them. Also some people get very nervous near threatening authority types in peaked caps, as I do, even though they've done nothing wrong. This can cause normally decent rational people to misbehave in odd and irrational ways. In my area cyclists seem to cycle along with no lights, some in Ninja mode, with impunity. I would sort of appreciate it if the Police beat up a few cycle nutters here. The majority round here seem to be lit up and night, although I do agree that those without any sort of light should be fined. Wouldn't it be cheaper for everyone if the Police just handed out £10 sets of lights and be done with the problem. No, because then someone is being rewarded for breaking the law. What happens is some places is that a cyclist is given a FPN for not having lights, if the cyclist buys and fits lights within e.g. two weeks, then the FPN is withdrawn. I very much like that attitude. |
#18
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Police pick on cyclist
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:06:01 +0000
David Hansen wrote: I see that the police have picked on another cyclist in Edinburgh http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp. If the report is true then the cyclist had working lights on his bike, though they may have been dim. Thus he was not committing an offence Surely that's for the court to decide once he's refused to accept a FPN? and the police had no grounds to ask him for his name and address. Thus the arrest was illegal, just like the fixed penalty notice. If he'd given his name and address rather than acting like a silly bugger he'd probably have got away with an informal caution. |
#19
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Police pick on cyclist
Wouldn't it be cheaper for everyone if the Police just handed out £10 sets of lights and be done with the problem. No, because then someone is being rewarded for breaking the law. What happens is some places is that a cyclist is given a FPN for not having lights, if the cyclist buys and fits lights within e.g. two weeks, then the FPN is withdrawn. I very much like that attitude. I agree. Fining people isn't the point. Modifying the behaviour is the objective. |
#20
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Police pick on cyclist
"Rob Morley" wrote in message news:20081201150940.2fa57849@bluemoon... On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:06:01 +0000 David Hansen wrote: I see that the police have picked on another cyclist in Edinburgh http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp. If the report is true then the cyclist had working lights on his bike, though they may have been dim. Thus he was not committing an offence Surely that's for the court to decide once he's refused to accept a FPN? and the police had no grounds to ask him for his name and address. Thus the arrest was illegal, just like the fixed penalty notice. If he'd given his name and address rather than acting like a silly bugger he'd probably have got away with an informal caution. "words of advice" is apparently the euphemism they use now. As someone who frequently confronts vandals, drunks, and yobs, I am appalled at the number of times I've seen people blatantly "taking the ****" get away with a mere ticking off. |
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