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  #1  
Old February 13th 19, 10:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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More and more from the comments from the group I get the feeling that Joerg, Jay and only possibly another or two ride for performance. That isn't racing but riding fast and doing things like going down hills and dropping car traffic in the turns. Going down the south side of Palomares I've even dropped the motorcycle play racers. Most of these guys haven't a clue of how to corner. Several times their more powerful acceleration gets them in front of me and then I'll pass them again when the turns get back to back.

So it seems to me that a lot of arguments are based not on substance but riding style. I don't complain that there is anything wrong with riding a steel touring bike with fenders and racks on it around town or even with the road riders (we have a couple of younger members in the group that can kill everyone even riding bikes 8 to 10 lbs heavier than the AVERAGE road bike) So why should I read stupid comments from Dopesalot about my choice of tires or wheels?

If he doesn't like a conversation why would he be commenting in it rather than avoiding it?


Frank pretty obviously has slowed down a lot. That's the price of aging ungracefully. I expect that to happen to my younger brother and it already has to my older.

I can't think of anything more enjoyable than a long climb up a steep empty mountain road though it is a lot more exciting descending it. I suppose that there's always the chance that something will break and kill me but so far I've encountered a hell of a lot more dangerous conditions riding two blocks from my home from someone running a stop sign, or driving a car on the freeways around here.

Not to mention that some of the neighborhoods I ride through always could have gang members shooting at gang members. I looked at an old wreck parked in front of the lower apartment windows of the fourplex my mother used to own in Oakland. It had several bullet holes in it. And this was a safer area..

But this is headed for your own neighborhood if the Democrats have their way. Never underestimate the effects of stress and strain on minority communities who have to compete with illegals for even low paying jobs. Just a low paying position gives you the HOPE that you can improve yourself. I can't even begin to understand what happened to the black community between the time I joined the Air Force and the time I got out. They went from hardworking tightly bound families to being told that they could NEVER make it in a white man's world. From being the pillars of many communities to the dope ridden dregs and all because that hope was stolen from them. I doubt that anyone of you would go to my old neighborhood. There was ONE wino, a bunch of kids from the projects and then the private black families that were the most respected people. Now every single - not most - every single house has 7 to 9 foot tall steel bar fences with arrowhead on top completely circling the houses.

Where blacks and whites and Hispanics and even Croatians could all play in the streets because drivers were careful, there are very few cars at all because the rents are so high they can't afford to own and operate a car.

I see this as the real promise of Socialism. Jerry Brown now ex-Governor sold his home in he Oakland hills. Apparently I'm the only one who really knew where it was because everyone else seems to think that it was a Duplex on the border with Berkeley. It is in completely another area of the hills on the far end of the same Skyline Blvd. on a side road. It is a frigging castle - no kidding turrets and all. I would guess that it has at least 20 large rooms and probably 7500 sq. ft.

After making such a mess out of California where did he retire to? The Republican part of the state FAR away from the cities that he ruined. Gavin Newsom who did the same thing to San Francisco makes Brown sound like a conservative.

So I don't expect that those nice quiet mountain roads that you can climb for an hour and a half and still get home for lunch will soon be a thing of the past and if you aren't REALLY careful this is going to be the entire country.

If you like sport riding and respect the people of this country that means have to act that way in every part of your life. And not ignore that respect when it comes time to vote. A capitalistic society may be hard at times but there has never been any other system that even came close to giving even the dregs of society more than the middle classes of other societies. It is the ONLY system in which the average man can hope to rise from the bottom to the top with only the sweat of his brow and the strength of his hands.
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  #2  
Old February 14th 19, 12:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,669
Default Type of Riding You Do

On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 1:49:36 PM UTC-8, wrote:
More and more from the comments from the group I get the feeling that Joerg, Jay and only possibly another or two ride for performance. That isn't racing but riding fast and doing things like going down hills and dropping car traffic in the turns. Going down the south side of Palomares I've even dropped the motorcycle play racers. Most of these guys haven't a clue of how to corner. Several times their more powerful acceleration gets them in front of me and then I'll pass them again when the turns get back to back.

So it seems to me that a lot of arguments are based not on substance but riding style. I don't complain that there is anything wrong with riding a steel touring bike with fenders and racks on it around town or even with the road riders (we have a couple of younger members in the group that can kill everyone even riding bikes 8 to 10 lbs heavier than the AVERAGE road bike) So why should I read stupid comments from Dopesalot about my choice of tires or wheels?

If he doesn't like a conversation why would he be commenting in it rather than avoiding it?


Frank pretty obviously has slowed down a lot. That's the price of aging ungracefully. I expect that to happen to my younger brother and it already has to my older.

I can't think of anything more enjoyable than a long climb up a steep empty mountain road though it is a lot more exciting descending it. I suppose that there's always the chance that something will break and kill me but so far I've encountered a hell of a lot more dangerous conditions riding two blocks from my home from someone running a stop sign, or driving a car on the freeways around here.

Not to mention that some of the neighborhoods I ride through always could have gang members shooting at gang members. I looked at an old wreck parked in front of the lower apartment windows of the fourplex my mother used to own in Oakland. It had several bullet holes in it. And this was a safer area.

But this is headed for your own neighborhood if the Democrats have their way. Never underestimate the effects of stress and strain on minority communities who have to compete with illegals for even low paying jobs. Just a low paying position gives you the HOPE that you can improve yourself. I can't even begin to understand what happened to the black community between the time I joined the Air Force and the time I got out. They went from hardworking tightly bound families to being told that they could NEVER make it in a white man's world. From being the pillars of many communities to the dope ridden dregs and all because that hope was stolen from them. I doubt that anyone of you would go to my old neighborhood. There was ONE wino, a bunch of kids from the projects and then the private black families that were the most respected people. Now every single - not most - every single house has 7 to 9 foot tall steel bar fences with arrowhead on top completely circling the houses.

Where blacks and whites and Hispanics and even Croatians could all play in the streets because drivers were careful, there are very few cars at all because the rents are so high they can't afford to own and operate a car.

I see this as the real promise of Socialism. Jerry Brown now ex-Governor sold his home in he Oakland hills. Apparently I'm the only one who really knew where it was because everyone else seems to think that it was a Duplex on the border with Berkeley. It is in completely another area of the hills on the far end of the same Skyline Blvd. on a side road. It is a frigging castle - no kidding turrets and all. I would guess that it has at least 20 large rooms and probably 7500 sq. ft.

After making such a mess out of California where did he retire to? The Republican part of the state FAR away from the cities that he ruined. Gavin Newsom who did the same thing to San Francisco makes Brown sound like a conservative.

So I don't expect that those nice quiet mountain roads that you can climb for an hour and a half and still get home for lunch will soon be a thing of the past and if you aren't REALLY careful this is going to be the entire country.

If you like sport riding and respect the people of this country that means have to act that way in every part of your life. And not ignore that respect when it comes time to vote. A capitalistic society may be hard at times but there has never been any other system that even came close to giving even the dregs of society more than the middle classes of other societies. It is the ONLY system in which the average man can hope to rise from the bottom to the top with only the sweat of his brow and the strength of his hands.


The next time you hit one of those high speed, sweeping outside turns down a mountain side, just keep going straight. You'll be happier.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #3  
Old February 14th 19, 10:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 974
Default Type of Riding You Do

On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 3:29:52 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 1:49:36 PM UTC-8, wrote:
More and more from the comments from the group I get the feeling that Joerg, Jay and only possibly another or two ride for performance. That isn't racing but riding fast and doing things like going down hills and dropping car traffic in the turns. Going down the south side of Palomares I've even dropped the motorcycle play racers. Most of these guys haven't a clue of how to corner. Several times their more powerful acceleration gets them in front of me and then I'll pass them again when the turns get back to back.

So it seems to me that a lot of arguments are based not on substance but riding style. I don't complain that there is anything wrong with riding a steel touring bike with fenders and racks on it around town or even with the road riders (we have a couple of younger members in the group that can kill everyone even riding bikes 8 to 10 lbs heavier than the AVERAGE road bike) So why should I read stupid comments from Dopesalot about my choice of tires or wheels?

If he doesn't like a conversation why would he be commenting in it rather than avoiding it?


Frank pretty obviously has slowed down a lot. That's the price of aging ungracefully. I expect that to happen to my younger brother and it already has to my older.

I can't think of anything more enjoyable than a long climb up a steep empty mountain road though it is a lot more exciting descending it. I suppose that there's always the chance that something will break and kill me but so far I've encountered a hell of a lot more dangerous conditions riding two blocks from my home from someone running a stop sign, or driving a car on the freeways around here.

Not to mention that some of the neighborhoods I ride through always could have gang members shooting at gang members. I looked at an old wreck parked in front of the lower apartment windows of the fourplex my mother used to own in Oakland. It had several bullet holes in it. And this was a safer area.

But this is headed for your own neighborhood if the Democrats have their way. Never underestimate the effects of stress and strain on minority communities who have to compete with illegals for even low paying jobs. Just a low paying position gives you the HOPE that you can improve yourself. I can't even begin to understand what happened to the black community between the time I joined the Air Force and the time I got out. They went from hardworking tightly bound families to being told that they could NEVER make it in a white man's world. From being the pillars of many communities to the dope ridden dregs and all because that hope was stolen from them. I doubt that anyone of you would go to my old neighborhood. There was ONE wino, a bunch of kids from the projects and then the private black families that were the most respected people. Now every single - not most - every single house has 7 to 9 foot tall steel bar fences with arrowhead on top completely circling the houses.

Where blacks and whites and Hispanics and even Croatians could all play in the streets because drivers were careful, there are very few cars at all because the rents are so high they can't afford to own and operate a car.

I see this as the real promise of Socialism. Jerry Brown now ex-Governor sold his home in he Oakland hills. Apparently I'm the only one who really knew where it was because everyone else seems to think that it was a Duplex on the border with Berkeley. It is in completely another area of the hills on the far end of the same Skyline Blvd. on a side road. It is a frigging castle - no kidding turrets and all. I would guess that it has at least 20 large rooms and probably 7500 sq. ft.

After making such a mess out of California where did he retire to? The Republican part of the state FAR away from the cities that he ruined. Gavin Newsom who did the same thing to San Francisco makes Brown sound like a conservative.

So I don't expect that those nice quiet mountain roads that you can climb for an hour and a half and still get home for lunch will soon be a thing of the past and if you aren't REALLY careful this is going to be the entire country.

If you like sport riding and respect the people of this country that means have to act that way in every part of your life. And not ignore that respect when it comes time to vote. A capitalistic society may be hard at times but there has never been any other system that even came close to giving even the dregs of society more than the middle classes of other societies. It is the ONLY system in which the average man can hope to rise from the bottom to the top with only the sweat of his brow and the strength of his hands.


The next time you hit one of those high speed, sweeping outside turns down a mountain side, just keep going straight. You'll be happier.

-- Jay Beattie.


Unlike you I don't live up on he hill and keep my eyes closed about what is going on.
  #4  
Old February 15th 19, 04:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 5
Default Type of Riding You Do

On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 1:49:36 PM UTC-8, wrote:
More and more from the comments from the group I get the feeling that Joerg, Jay and only possibly another or two ride for performance. That isn't racing but riding fast and doing things like going down hills and dropping car traffic in the turns. Going down the south side of Palomares I've even dropped the motorcycle play racers. Most of these guys haven't a clue of how to corner. Several times their more powerful acceleration gets them in front of me and then I'll pass them again when the turns get back to back.

snip
Sounds like you would have enjoyed riding with the late, great, Jobst Brandt.
  #5  
Old February 15th 19, 04:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,669
Default Type of Riding You Do

On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 7:15:11 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 1:49:36 PM UTC-8, wrote:
More and more from the comments from the group I get the feeling that Joerg, Jay and only possibly another or two ride for performance. That isn't racing but riding fast and doing things like going down hills and dropping car traffic in the turns. Going down the south side of Palomares I've even dropped the motorcycle play racers. Most of these guys haven't a clue of how to corner. Several times their more powerful acceleration gets them in front of me and then I'll pass them again when the turns get back to back.

snip
Sounds like you would have enjoyed riding with the late, great, Jobst Brandt.
He was famous for his fearless descents as well as being a strong rider overall.


Regrettably, Jobst loathed TK and vice versa, although I don't think they met in person. Jobst was a fast rider in the '60s and '70s. I remember Laurence Malone, the CX phenom, talking about Jobst's grueling rides in the '70s. I saw Jobst at PAB back in the '70s but never did one of his rides. I was routinely dumped by a lot of the guys who did ride with him, mostly the Cat 1/2s who dominated NorCal. I was Cat 3 pack-filler. Hey, someone has to be the pack.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #6  
Old February 15th 19, 08:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 974
Default Type of Riding You Do

On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 7:15:11 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 1:49:36 PM UTC-8, wrote:
More and more from the comments from the group I get the feeling that Joerg, Jay and only possibly another or two ride for performance. That isn't racing but riding fast and doing things like going down hills and dropping car traffic in the turns. Going down the south side of Palomares I've even dropped the motorcycle play racers. Most of these guys haven't a clue of how to corner. Several times their more powerful acceleration gets them in front of me and then I'll pass them again when the turns get back to back.

snip
Sounds like you would have enjoyed riding with the late, great, Jobst Brandt.
He was famous for his fearless descents as well as being a strong rider overall.

The long-absent Ron Wallenfang who used to post here claimed that he was slow, but he was indefatigable. He could ride long distances relatively effortlessly.

My riding has virtually all been commuting to work with occasional bike tours thrown in along the way. I have no interest in "performance" riding. But, that's what is so good about cycling: I've found that cyclists are, by and large, true individualists. Not to be found all that often in 'normal' society.

There are precious few of us posting on usenet these days. I wish there were more (I wonder how we can publicize usenet in today's "social media" climate?).

Anyway, I think all cycling is good. These days now that I'm retired for the moment I am a utility cyclist. I like to do my shopping on the bike. Blackburn low-rider rack in front and rack in back, so four panniers of capacity if I need it.

Pureheart in Aptos


I did ride with Jobst. But we disagreed when I said that taking chances on his own is fine but when he doesn't worn the peleton following him he is taking chances with other people's lives.

He took a great deal of offense at that but Jobst would always be Jobst.
  #7  
Old February 15th 19, 09:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 974
Default Type of Riding You Do

On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 7:56:52 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 7:15:11 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 1:49:36 PM UTC-8, wrote:
More and more from the comments from the group I get the feeling that Joerg, Jay and only possibly another or two ride for performance. That isn't racing but riding fast and doing things like going down hills and dropping car traffic in the turns. Going down the south side of Palomares I've even dropped the motorcycle play racers. Most of these guys haven't a clue of how to corner. Several times their more powerful acceleration gets them in front of me and then I'll pass them again when the turns get back to back.

snip
Sounds like you would have enjoyed riding with the late, great, Jobst Brandt.
He was famous for his fearless descents as well as being a strong rider overall.


Regrettably, Jobst loathed TK and vice versa, although I don't think they met in person. Jobst was a fast rider in the '60s and '70s. I remember Laurence Malone, the CX phenom, talking about Jobst's grueling rides in the '70s. I saw Jobst at PAB back in the '70s but never did one of his rides. I was routinely dumped by a lot of the guys who did ride with him, mostly the Cat 1/2s who dominated NorCal. I was Cat 3 pack-filler. Hey, someone has to be the pack.

-- Jay Beattie.


Jobst was not a particularly fast climber because he used preposterous gears - something like a 48-19. No one climbs fast in a gear like that. Plus although he was a tall man (6'6"?) his bike was too big for him.

I could keep up with him on hard climbs but wouldn't even try on descents. And on the flats he was fast and did not break his cadence. I was never able to hold a hard fast cadence and never developed the ability to.

I didn't loath Jobst but I had no problem criticizing him after I watched him do crap like descending very fast and jumping a shoulder onto an off-camber dirt path without so much as a warning. I don't care how many people idolized him that was dumb.
  #8  
Old February 15th 19, 09:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,669
Default Type of Riding You Do

On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 11:51:55 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 7:15:11 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 1:49:36 PM UTC-8, wrote:
More and more from the comments from the group I get the feeling that Joerg, Jay and only possibly another or two ride for performance. That isn't racing but riding fast and doing things like going down hills and dropping car traffic in the turns. Going down the south side of Palomares I've even dropped the motorcycle play racers. Most of these guys haven't a clue of how to corner. Several times their more powerful acceleration gets them in front of me and then I'll pass them again when the turns get back to back.

snip
Sounds like you would have enjoyed riding with the late, great, Jobst Brandt.
He was famous for his fearless descents as well as being a strong rider overall.

The long-absent Ron Wallenfang who used to post here claimed that he was slow, but he was indefatigable. He could ride long distances relatively effortlessly.

My riding has virtually all been commuting to work with occasional bike tours thrown in along the way. I have no interest in "performance" riding.. But, that's what is so good about cycling: I've found that cyclists are, by and large, true individualists. Not to be found all that often in 'normal' society.

There are precious few of us posting on usenet these days. I wish there were more (I wonder how we can publicize usenet in today's "social media" climate?).

Anyway, I think all cycling is good. These days now that I'm retired for the moment I am a utility cyclist. I like to do my shopping on the bike. Blackburn low-rider rack in front and rack in back, so four panniers of capacity if I need it.

Pureheart in Aptos


I did ride with Jobst. But we disagreed when I said that taking chances on his own is fine but when he doesn't worn the peleton following him he is taking chances with other people's lives.

He took a great deal of offense at that but Jobst would always be Jobst.


I didn't know the two of you actually rode together. His posts were not the sort of thing that one would expect to see exchanged between acquaintances..

-- Jay Beattie.
  #9  
Old February 15th 19, 10:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 974
Default Type of Riding You Do

On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 12:17:40 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 11:51:55 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 7:15:11 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 1:49:36 PM UTC-8, wrote:
More and more from the comments from the group I get the feeling that Joerg, Jay and only possibly another or two ride for performance. That isn't racing but riding fast and doing things like going down hills and dropping car traffic in the turns. Going down the south side of Palomares I've even dropped the motorcycle play racers. Most of these guys haven't a clue of how to corner. Several times their more powerful acceleration gets them in front of me and then I'll pass them again when the turns get back to back.

snip
Sounds like you would have enjoyed riding with the late, great, Jobst Brandt.
He was famous for his fearless descents as well as being a strong rider overall.

The long-absent Ron Wallenfang who used to post here claimed that he was slow, but he was indefatigable. He could ride long distances relatively effortlessly.

My riding has virtually all been commuting to work with occasional bike tours thrown in along the way. I have no interest in "performance" riding. But, that's what is so good about cycling: I've found that cyclists are, by and large, true individualists. Not to be found all that often in 'normal' society.

There are precious few of us posting on usenet these days. I wish there were more (I wonder how we can publicize usenet in today's "social media" climate?).

Anyway, I think all cycling is good. These days now that I'm retired for the moment I am a utility cyclist. I like to do my shopping on the bike. Blackburn low-rider rack in front and rack in back, so four panniers of capacity if I need it.

Pureheart in Aptos


I did ride with Jobst. But we disagreed when I said that taking chances on his own is fine but when he doesn't worn the peleton following him he is taking chances with other people's lives.

He took a great deal of offense at that but Jobst would always be Jobst..


I didn't know the two of you actually rode together. His posts were not the sort of thing that one would expect to see exchanged between acquaintances.

-- Jay Beattie.


He didn't start that until I criticized him on the boards. He rather enjoyed the position of top dog and didn't at all like being brought down a notch.. Why else would you think that he would post a supposed map to my home. The way some of those Jobst sympathizers might well have gone to that little old ladies home and harassed her. Does that really sound like someone that was completely sane?

I was with him when he pulled that trick of jumping the shoulder of the road onto an off-camber dirt path and that's how I know he did it. That was also my last ride with him. I think that he did it to cause anyone behind him to crash. Luckily that pathway was in the late spring and the ground was still hard.

For the most part Jobst was OK but he was real easy to trigger. And he didn't like me suggesting to him that a 42-21 would allow him to climb faster. He wanted what he thought of as the macho gears that the Tour winners used. And they only used those stupid gears before lower gears were available. I started out using a 48/23 Campy and I was a sissy in his view.
 




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