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Conbtinental has come out with a GP5000S and a GP5000TL



 
 
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  #81  
Old February 23rd 19, 12:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Conbtinental has come out with a GP5000S and a GP5000TL

On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 14:25:49 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/22/2019 1:39 PM, wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 6:31:09 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:46:38 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 4:27 PM,
wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:10:42 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 12:52 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 4:32:10 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/20/2019 6:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Another thing about these tires is that they have a pretty high recommended inflation pressure for a 32mm. IIRC around 90 PSI, which makes the ride like rocks, but if they are under inflated, they ride like slugs. A 10-15 psi difference really affects the perceived "speed" of the tire.

It might be interesting to try some simple coast-down tests. If you have
any hills with pretty consistent slope but not too steep, you could run
them at (say) 75 psi and coast down noting your time between two
landmarks. Then ride back up, inflate to 90 and repeat the trial. If
done on a day without wind, you'd probably get a realistic estimate of
how rolling resistance varies with those two pressures.

You say you don't use cyclometers. But those with cyclometers mounted
might just use the speeds indicated to tell the difference.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Remember that I was describing the coast down test I had up in Cull Canyon where I would coast down a really rough section of road and then it would flatten out and when I hit a 100 yard long patch of new and very smooth pavement the bike would actually accelerate? Everyone wanted to argue that wasn't possible but I did it again and again. As the summer wore on the asphalt aged and got rougher and though it was still pretty smooth the effect had disappeared.

When you say the road "would flatten out" do you mean it was horizontal,
instead of downhill? Or do you mean the bumps went away and it remained
downhill?


--
- Frank Krygowski

It went downhill on a very rough road, flattened to horizontal or at least the 0% grade indication on my altimeter and then it climbed a bit before descending a bike. The increase in speed was immediate upon entering the smooth section and not a slow build up of speed as would come from a declining road.

OK, if you were coasting and you had no tailwind that exceeded your
speed, you had nobody pushing you forward (which I've done for people
many times), and you had no rope towing you or some other weird situation...

And your bike actually accelerated when the road was horizontal? Yes,
that's impossible. Sorry, Tom, this is basic physics.

(And I had to include the rope tow because that was Jute's "deus ex
machina" on his first weird braggart tale here.)

Your story does, however, indicate the power of suggestion and how it
can mess with our perceptions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, if this is against physics why haven't you actually explained this to us?

To my way of thinking if E = 1/2M*V^2 and you reduce the rolling resistance you coast for a longer distance to expend the energy. But that isn't what happened. As I said - when I hit the smooth pavement the bike increased its speed.

This was not a single case but multiple experiments and as the smooth pavement degraded over the summer and grew rougher the increasing speed disappeared at least to the level where it wasn't detectable.


I think what Frank tries to say is that to be able to accelerate there must be a driving force, one of Newtons laws. If you are coasting on flat terrain without a tailwind there is no driving force.


Exactly. In fact, there are retarding forces, those being air resistance
and rolling resistance, at a minimum.

And as to Tom's question, why haven't I explained it? I guess I
foolishly persist in believing that some things are obvious to educated
people.


Or even to uneducated people who keep their eyes open :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


Ads
  #82  
Old March 1st 19, 05:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Conbtinental has come out with a GP5000S and a GP5000TL

On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 11:25:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/22/2019 1:39 PM, wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 6:31:09 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:46:38 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 4:27 PM,
wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:10:42 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 12:52 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 4:32:10 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/20/2019 6:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Another thing about these tires is that they have a pretty high recommended inflation pressure for a 32mm. IIRC around 90 PSI, which makes the ride like rocks, but if they are under inflated, they ride like slugs.. A 10-15 psi difference really affects the perceived "speed" of the tire.

It might be interesting to try some simple coast-down tests. If you have
any hills with pretty consistent slope but not too steep, you could run
them at (say) 75 psi and coast down noting your time between two
landmarks. Then ride back up, inflate to 90 and repeat the trial. If
done on a day without wind, you'd probably get a realistic estimate of
how rolling resistance varies with those two pressures.

You say you don't use cyclometers. But those with cyclometers mounted
might just use the speeds indicated to tell the difference.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Remember that I was describing the coast down test I had up in Cull Canyon where I would coast down a really rough section of road and then it would flatten out and when I hit a 100 yard long patch of new and very smooth pavement the bike would actually accelerate? Everyone wanted to argue that wasn't possible but I did it again and again. As the summer wore on the asphalt aged and got rougher and though it was still pretty smooth the effect had disappeared.

When you say the road "would flatten out" do you mean it was horizontal,
instead of downhill? Or do you mean the bumps went away and it remained
downhill?


--
- Frank Krygowski

It went downhill on a very rough road, flattened to horizontal or at least the 0% grade indication on my altimeter and then it climbed a bit before descending a bike. The increase in speed was immediate upon entering the smooth section and not a slow build up of speed as would come from a declining road.

OK, if you were coasting and you had no tailwind that exceeded your
speed, you had nobody pushing you forward (which I've done for people
many times), and you had no rope towing you or some other weird situation...

And your bike actually accelerated when the road was horizontal? Yes,
that's impossible. Sorry, Tom, this is basic physics.

(And I had to include the rope tow because that was Jute's "deus ex
machina" on his first weird braggart tale here.)

Your story does, however, indicate the power of suggestion and how it
can mess with our perceptions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, if this is against physics why haven't you actually explained this to us?

To my way of thinking if E = 1/2M*V^2 and you reduce the rolling resistance you coast for a longer distance to expend the energy. But that isn't what happened. As I said - when I hit the smooth pavement the bike increased its speed.

This was not a single case but multiple experiments and as the smooth pavement degraded over the summer and grew rougher the increasing speed disappeared at least to the level where it wasn't detectable.


I think what Frank tries to say is that to be able to accelerate there must be a driving force, one of Newtons laws. If you are coasting on flat terrain without a tailwind there is no driving force.


Exactly. In fact, there are retarding forces, those being air resistance
and rolling resistance, at a minimum.

And as to Tom's question, why haven't I explained it? I guess I
foolishly persist in believing that some things are obvious to educated
people.


--
- Frank Krygowski


So when faced by experimental fact you simply deny it. Seem like most teachers. "That ain't what I believe so it didn't happen." Real education there alright.

The reason that I mentioned this in the first place is because it did not meet my understanding of physics. I tried this multiple times with the same results. I expected that someone here would have some explanation for it and instead some jackasses said that it was impossible and my personal experience wasn't just incorrect but a lie. This is the sort of people that inhabit this site. Freaks like Slocumb that tell us what it is like in the US after living most of his life in foreign countries and Frank who was used to dictating "the truth" to students and thinks that the whole world is now as stupid as his students were for not punching his lights out.

A week ago I did the same route. The asphalt has now degraded to the same consistency as that of the surrounding area and it acts just as you would expect it to.
  #83  
Old March 1st 19, 05:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Conbtinental has come out with a GP5000S and a GP5000TL

On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 3:44:32 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 14:25:49 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/22/2019 1:39 PM, wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 6:31:09 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:46:38 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 4:27 PM,
wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:10:42 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 12:52 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 4:32:10 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/20/2019 6:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Another thing about these tires is that they have a pretty high recommended inflation pressure for a 32mm. IIRC around 90 PSI, which makes the ride like rocks, but if they are under inflated, they ride like slugs. A 10-15 psi difference really affects the perceived "speed" of the tire..

It might be interesting to try some simple coast-down tests. If you have
any hills with pretty consistent slope but not too steep, you could run
them at (say) 75 psi and coast down noting your time between two
landmarks. Then ride back up, inflate to 90 and repeat the trial.. If
done on a day without wind, you'd probably get a realistic estimate of
how rolling resistance varies with those two pressures.

You say you don't use cyclometers. But those with cyclometers mounted
might just use the speeds indicated to tell the difference.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Remember that I was describing the coast down test I had up in Cull Canyon where I would coast down a really rough section of road and then it would flatten out and when I hit a 100 yard long patch of new and very smooth pavement the bike would actually accelerate? Everyone wanted to argue that wasn't possible but I did it again and again. As the summer wore on the asphalt aged and got rougher and though it was still pretty smooth the effect had disappeared.

When you say the road "would flatten out" do you mean it was horizontal,
instead of downhill? Or do you mean the bumps went away and it remained
downhill?


--
- Frank Krygowski

It went downhill on a very rough road, flattened to horizontal or at least the 0% grade indication on my altimeter and then it climbed a bit before descending a bike. The increase in speed was immediate upon entering the smooth section and not a slow build up of speed as would come from a declining road.

OK, if you were coasting and you had no tailwind that exceeded your
speed, you had nobody pushing you forward (which I've done for people
many times), and you had no rope towing you or some other weird situation...

And your bike actually accelerated when the road was horizontal? Yes,
that's impossible. Sorry, Tom, this is basic physics.

(And I had to include the rope tow because that was Jute's "deus ex
machina" on his first weird braggart tale here.)

Your story does, however, indicate the power of suggestion and how it
can mess with our perceptions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, if this is against physics why haven't you actually explained this to us?

To my way of thinking if E = 1/2M*V^2 and you reduce the rolling resistance you coast for a longer distance to expend the energy. But that isn't what happened. As I said - when I hit the smooth pavement the bike increased its speed.

This was not a single case but multiple experiments and as the smooth pavement degraded over the summer and grew rougher the increasing speed disappeared at least to the level where it wasn't detectable.

I think what Frank tries to say is that to be able to accelerate there must be a driving force, one of Newtons laws. If you are coasting on flat terrain without a tailwind there is no driving force.


Exactly. In fact, there are retarding forces, those being air resistance
and rolling resistance, at a minimum.

And as to Tom's question, why haven't I explained it? I guess I
foolishly persist in believing that some things are obvious to educated
people.


Or even to uneducated people who keep their eyes open :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


Tell us John - what is your education?
  #84  
Old March 1st 19, 06:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Conbtinental has come out with a GP5000S and a GP5000TL

On 3/1/2019 11:15 AM, wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 11:25:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/22/2019 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 6:31:09 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:46:38 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 4:27 PM,
wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:10:42 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 12:52 PM,
wrote:

Remember that I was describing the coast down test I had up in Cull Canyon where I would coast down a really rough section of road and then it would flatten out and when I hit a 100 yard long patch of new and very smooth pavement the bike would actually accelerate? Everyone wanted to argue that wasn't possible but I did it again and again. As the summer wore on the asphalt aged and got rougher and though it was still pretty smooth the effect had disappeared.

When you say the road "would flatten out" do you mean it was horizontal,
instead of downhill? Or do you mean the bumps went away and it remained
downhill?
--
- Frank Krygowski

It went downhill on a very rough road, flattened to horizontal or at least the 0% grade indication on my altimeter and then it climbed a bit before descending a bike. The increase in speed was immediate upon entering the smooth section and not a slow build up of speed as would come from a declining road.

OK, if you were coasting and you had no tailwind that exceeded your
speed, you had nobody pushing you forward (which I've done for people
many times), and you had no rope towing you or some other weird situation...

And your bike actually accelerated when the road was horizontal? Yes,
that's impossible. Sorry, Tom, this is basic physics.

(And I had to include the rope tow because that was Jute's "deus ex
machina" on his first weird braggart tale here.)

Your story does, however, indicate the power of suggestion and how it
can mess with our perceptions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, if this is against physics why haven't you actually explained this to us?

To my way of thinking if E = 1/2M*V^2 and you reduce the rolling resistance you coast for a longer distance to expend the energy. But that isn't what happened. As I said - when I hit the smooth pavement the bike increased its speed.

This was not a single case but multiple experiments and as the smooth pavement degraded over the summer and grew rougher the increasing speed disappeared at least to the level where it wasn't detectable.

I think what Frank tries to say is that to be able to accelerate there must be a driving force, one of Newtons laws. If you are coasting on flat terrain without a tailwind there is no driving force.


Exactly. In fact, there are retarding forces, those being air resistance
and rolling resistance, at a minimum.

And as to Tom's question, why haven't I explained it? I guess I
foolishly persist in believing that some things are obvious to educated
people.


--
- Frank Krygowski


So when faced by experimental fact you simply deny it. Seem like most teachers. "That ain't what I believe so it didn't happen." Real education there alright.

The reason that I mentioned this in the first place is because it did not meet my understanding of physics. I tried this multiple times with the same results. I expected that someone here would have some explanation for it and instead some jackasses said that it was impossible and my personal experience wasn't just incorrect but a lie. This is the sort of people that inhabit this site. Freaks like Slocumb that tell us what it is like in the US after living most of his life in foreign countries and Frank who was used to dictating "the truth" to students and thinks that the whole world is now as stupid as his students were for not punching his lights out.

A week ago I did the same route. The asphalt has now degraded to the same consistency as that of the surrounding area and it acts just as you would expect it to.


Yes, Tom, we foolishly persist in believing that F=m*a just because
Newton demonstrated it hundreds of years ago and it's been confirmed by
millions of measurements ever since.

We foolishly doubt a guy who claims he felt his bike accelerate when no
force was available to accelerate it, and when there had to be forces
decelerating it. And who has many times attested to his own bad memory.

Oh, and who now says the phenomenon has stopped, so his world has
returned to normal physics.

So we believe fundamental 10th grade science instead of your daydreams.
We are an odd bunch, all right!

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #85  
Old March 1st 19, 09:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Conbtinental has come out with a GP5000S and a GP5000TL

On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:32:15 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 11:15 AM, wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 11:25:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/22/2019 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 6:31:09 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:46:38 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 4:27 PM,
wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:10:42 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 12:52 PM,
wrote:

Remember that I was describing the coast down test I had up in Cull Canyon where I would coast down a really rough section of road and then it would flatten out and when I hit a 100 yard long patch of new and very smooth pavement the bike would actually accelerate? Everyone wanted to argue that wasn't possible but I did it again and again. As the summer wore on the asphalt aged and got rougher and though it was still pretty smooth the effect had disappeared.

When you say the road "would flatten out" do you mean it was horizontal,
instead of downhill? Or do you mean the bumps went away and it remained
downhill?
--
- Frank Krygowski

It went downhill on a very rough road, flattened to horizontal or at least the 0% grade indication on my altimeter and then it climbed a bit before descending a bike. The increase in speed was immediate upon entering the smooth section and not a slow build up of speed as would come from a declining road.

OK, if you were coasting and you had no tailwind that exceeded your
speed, you had nobody pushing you forward (which I've done for people
many times), and you had no rope towing you or some other weird situation...

And your bike actually accelerated when the road was horizontal? Yes,
that's impossible. Sorry, Tom, this is basic physics.

(And I had to include the rope tow because that was Jute's "deus ex
machina" on his first weird braggart tale here.)

Your story does, however, indicate the power of suggestion and how it
can mess with our perceptions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, if this is against physics why haven't you actually explained this to us?

To my way of thinking if E = 1/2M*V^2 and you reduce the rolling resistance you coast for a longer distance to expend the energy. But that isn't what happened. As I said - when I hit the smooth pavement the bike increased its speed.

This was not a single case but multiple experiments and as the smooth pavement degraded over the summer and grew rougher the increasing speed disappeared at least to the level where it wasn't detectable.

I think what Frank tries to say is that to be able to accelerate there must be a driving force, one of Newtons laws. If you are coasting on flat terrain without a tailwind there is no driving force.

Exactly. In fact, there are retarding forces, those being air resistance
and rolling resistance, at a minimum.

And as to Tom's question, why haven't I explained it? I guess I
foolishly persist in believing that some things are obvious to educated
people.


--
- Frank Krygowski


So when faced by experimental fact you simply deny it. Seem like most teachers. "That ain't what I believe so it didn't happen." Real education there alright.

The reason that I mentioned this in the first place is because it did not meet my understanding of physics. I tried this multiple times with the same results. I expected that someone here would have some explanation for it and instead some jackasses said that it was impossible and my personal experience wasn't just incorrect but a lie. This is the sort of people that inhabit this site. Freaks like Slocumb that tell us what it is like in the US after living most of his life in foreign countries and Frank who was used to dictating "the truth" to students and thinks that the whole world is now as stupid as his students were for not punching his lights out.

A week ago I did the same route. The asphalt has now degraded to the same consistency as that of the surrounding area and it acts just as you would expect it to.


Yes, Tom, we foolishly persist in believing that F=m*a just because
Newton demonstrated it hundreds of years ago and it's been confirmed by
millions of measurements ever since.

We foolishly doubt a guy who claims he felt his bike accelerate when no
force was available to accelerate it, and when there had to be forces
decelerating it. And who has many times attested to his own bad memory.

Oh, and who now says the phenomenon has stopped, so his world has
returned to normal physics.

So we believe fundamental 10th grade science instead of your daydreams.
We are an odd bunch, all right!

--
- Frank Krygowski


Make another moronic statement. It makes you look so smart. I actually measured that speed increase on the speedo. Initially I was 2 mph when I entered that section at 20. And it didn't increase as if the flat was a little downhill but very rapidly. And as I said - after the asphalt aged to the same roughness of the approach that speed increase disappeared.

Tell me Frank - did your college education allow you to design and program communications boards for the Space Station? To design and program several anti-Cancer instruments? The design and program the PCR automation to detect HIV? Did it allow you to work in high energy nuclear research? Did you work with the military on their systems? At Lawrence Berkeley Labs?

There is no end to the dumb things you have to say because something that you expect to happen doesn't do it that way. Are you simply jealous because you've never done much? One of the guys that I rode with was a professor that quit and became a truck driver because he couldn't stand people like you.. He also made more money.
  #86  
Old March 2nd 19, 12:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Conbtinental has come out with a GP5000S and a GP5000TL

On 3/1/2019 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:32:15 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 11:15 AM,
wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 11:25:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/22/2019 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 6:31:09 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:46:38 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 4:27 PM,
wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:10:42 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 12:52 PM,
wrote:

Remember that I was describing the coast down test I had up in Cull Canyon where I would coast down a really rough section of road and then it would flatten out and when I hit a 100 yard long patch of new and very smooth pavement the bike would actually accelerate? Everyone wanted to argue that wasn't possible but I did it again and again. As the summer wore on the asphalt aged and got rougher and though it was still pretty smooth the effect had disappeared.

When you say the road "would flatten out" do you mean it was horizontal,
instead of downhill? Or do you mean the bumps went away and it remained
downhill?
--
- Frank Krygowski

It went downhill on a very rough road, flattened to horizontal or at least the 0% grade indication on my altimeter and then it climbed a bit before descending a bike. The increase in speed was immediate upon entering the smooth section and not a slow build up of speed as would come from a declining road.

OK, if you were coasting and you had no tailwind that exceeded your
speed, you had nobody pushing you forward (which I've done for people
many times), and you had no rope towing you or some other weird situation...

And your bike actually accelerated when the road was horizontal? Yes,
that's impossible. Sorry, Tom, this is basic physics.

(And I had to include the rope tow because that was Jute's "deus ex
machina" on his first weird braggart tale here.)

Your story does, however, indicate the power of suggestion and how it
can mess with our perceptions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, if this is against physics why haven't you actually explained this to us?

To my way of thinking if E = 1/2M*V^2 and you reduce the rolling resistance you coast for a longer distance to expend the energy. But that isn't what happened. As I said - when I hit the smooth pavement the bike increased its speed.

This was not a single case but multiple experiments and as the smooth pavement degraded over the summer and grew rougher the increasing speed disappeared at least to the level where it wasn't detectable.

I think what Frank tries to say is that to be able to accelerate there must be a driving force, one of Newtons laws. If you are coasting on flat terrain without a tailwind there is no driving force.

Exactly. In fact, there are retarding forces, those being air resistance
and rolling resistance, at a minimum.

And as to Tom's question, why haven't I explained it? I guess I
foolishly persist in believing that some things are obvious to educated
people.


--
- Frank Krygowski

So when faced by experimental fact you simply deny it. Seem like most teachers. "That ain't what I believe so it didn't happen." Real education there alright.

The reason that I mentioned this in the first place is because it did not meet my understanding of physics. I tried this multiple times with the same results. I expected that someone here would have some explanation for it and instead some jackasses said that it was impossible and my personal experience wasn't just incorrect but a lie. This is the sort of people that inhabit this site. Freaks like Slocumb that tell us what it is like in the US after living most of his life in foreign countries and Frank who was used to dictating "the truth" to students and thinks that the whole world is now as stupid as his students were for not punching his lights out.

A week ago I did the same route. The asphalt has now degraded to the same consistency as that of the surrounding area and it acts just as you would expect it to.


Yes, Tom, we foolishly persist in believing that F=m*a just because
Newton demonstrated it hundreds of years ago and it's been confirmed by
millions of measurements ever since.

We foolishly doubt a guy who claims he felt his bike accelerate when no
force was available to accelerate it, and when there had to be forces
decelerating it. And who has many times attested to his own bad memory.

Oh, and who now says the phenomenon has stopped, so his world has
returned to normal physics.

So we believe fundamental 10th grade science instead of your daydreams.
We are an odd bunch, all right!

--
- Frank Krygowski


Make another moronic statement. It makes you look so smart. I actually measured that speed increase on the speedo. Initially I was 2 mph when I entered that section at 20. And it didn't increase as if the flat was a little downhill but very rapidly. And as I said - after the asphalt aged to the same roughness of the approach that speed increase disappeared.


Which is why on really smooth surfaces, bicyclists never have to pedal?
You're spouting an entirely new level of nonsense.

The rest of your deflections have been snipped.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #87  
Old March 2nd 19, 03:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default Conbtinental has come out with a GP5000S and a GP5000TL

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 3/1/2019 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:32:15 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 11:15 AM,
wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 11:25:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/22/2019 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 6:31:09 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:46:38 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 4:27 PM,
wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:10:42 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 12:52 PM,
wrote:

Remember that I was describing the coast down test I had up
in Cull Canyon where I would coast down a really rough
section of road and then it would flatten out and when I
hit a 100 yard long patch of new and very smooth pavement
the bike would actually accelerate? Everyone wanted to
argue that wasn't possible but I did it again and again. As
the summer wore on the asphalt aged and got rougher and
though it was still pretty smooth the effect had
disappeared.

When you say the road "would flatten out" do you mean it was horizontal,
instead of downhill? Or do you mean the bumps went away and it remained
downhill?
--
- Frank Krygowski

It went downhill on a very rough road, flattened to
horizontal or at least the 0% grade indication on my
altimeter and then it climbed a bit before descending a
bike. The increase in speed was immediate upon entering the
smooth section and not a slow build up of speed as would come
from a declining road.

OK, if you were coasting and you had no tailwind that exceeded your
speed, you had nobody pushing you forward (which I've done for people
many times), and you had no rope towing you or some other weird situation...

And your bike actually accelerated when the road was horizontal? Yes,
that's impossible. Sorry, Tom, this is basic physics.

(And I had to include the rope tow because that was Jute's "deus ex
machina" on his first weird braggart tale here.)

Your story does, however, indicate the power of suggestion and how it
can mess with our perceptions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, if this is against physics why haven't you actually explained this to us?

To my way of thinking if E = 1/2M*V^2 and you reduce the
rolling resistance you coast for a longer distance to expend
the energy. But that isn't what happened. As I said - when I
hit the smooth pavement the bike increased its speed.

This was not a single case but multiple experiments and as the
smooth pavement degraded over the summer and grew rougher the
increasing speed disappeared at least to the level where it
wasn't detectable.

I think what Frank tries to say is that to be able to accelerate
there must be a driving force, one of Newtons laws. If you are
coasting on flat terrain without a tailwind there is no driving
force.

Exactly. In fact, there are retarding forces, those being air resistance
and rolling resistance, at a minimum.

And as to Tom's question, why haven't I explained it? I guess I
foolishly persist in believing that some things are obvious to educated
people.


--
- Frank Krygowski

So when faced by experimental fact you simply deny it. Seem like
most teachers. "That ain't what I believe so it didn't happen."
Real education there alright.

The reason that I mentioned this in the first place is because it
did not meet my understanding of physics. I tried this multiple
times with the same results. I expected that someone here would
have some explanation for it and instead some jackasses said that
it was impossible and my personal experience wasn't just incorrect
but a lie. This is the sort of people that inhabit this
site. Freaks like Slocumb that tell us what it is like in the US
after living most of his life in foreign countries and Frank who
was used to dictating "the truth" to students and thinks that the
whole world is now as stupid as his students were for not punching
his lights out.

A week ago I did the same route. The asphalt has now degraded to
the same consistency as that of the surrounding area and it acts
just as you would expect it to.

Yes, Tom, we foolishly persist in believing that F=m*a just because
Newton demonstrated it hundreds of years ago and it's been confirmed by
millions of measurements ever since.

We foolishly doubt a guy who claims he felt his bike accelerate when no
force was available to accelerate it, and when there had to be forces
decelerating it. And who has many times attested to his own bad memory.

Oh, and who now says the phenomenon has stopped, so his world has
returned to normal physics.

So we believe fundamental 10th grade science instead of your daydreams.
We are an odd bunch, all right!

--
- Frank Krygowski


Make another moronic statement. It makes you look so smart. I
actually measured that speed increase on the speedo. Initially I was
2 mph when I entered that section at 20. And it didn't increase as
if the flat was a little downhill but very rapidly. And as I said -
after the asphalt aged to the same roughness of the approach that
speed increase disappeared.


Which is why on really smooth surfaces, bicyclists never have to
pedal? You're spouting an entirely new level of nonsense.


There are spots at which it's hard to tell by eye whether the road is
ascending or descending, some sort of optical illusion.

--
  #88  
Old March 2nd 19, 04:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Conbtinental has come out with a GP5000S and a GP5000TL

On 3/1/2019 9:11 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 3/1/2019 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:32:15 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 11:15 AM,
wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 11:25:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/22/2019 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 6:31:09 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:46:38 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 4:27 PM,
wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:10:42 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 12:52 PM,
wrote:

Remember that I was describing the coast down test I had up
in Cull Canyon where I would coast down a really rough
section of road and then it would flatten out and when I
hit a 100 yard long patch of new and very smooth pavement
the bike would actually accelerate? Everyone wanted to
argue that wasn't possible but I did it again and again. As
the summer wore on the asphalt aged and got rougher and
though it was still pretty smooth the effect had
disappeared.

When you say the road "would flatten out" do you mean it was horizontal,
instead of downhill? Or do you mean the bumps went away and it remained
downhill?
--
- Frank Krygowski

It went downhill on a very rough road, flattened to
horizontal or at least the 0% grade indication on my
altimeter and then it climbed a bit before descending a
bike. The increase in speed was immediate upon entering the
smooth section and not a slow build up of speed as would come
from a declining road.

OK, if you were coasting and you had no tailwind that exceeded your
speed, you had nobody pushing you forward (which I've done for people
many times), and you had no rope towing you or some other weird situation...

And your bike actually accelerated when the road was horizontal? Yes,
that's impossible. Sorry, Tom, this is basic physics.

(And I had to include the rope tow because that was Jute's "deus ex
machina" on his first weird braggart tale here.)

Your story does, however, indicate the power of suggestion and how it
can mess with our perceptions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, if this is against physics why haven't you actually explained this to us?

To my way of thinking if E = 1/2M*V^2 and you reduce the
rolling resistance you coast for a longer distance to expend
the energy. But that isn't what happened. As I said - when I
hit the smooth pavement the bike increased its speed.

This was not a single case but multiple experiments and as the
smooth pavement degraded over the summer and grew rougher the
increasing speed disappeared at least to the level where it
wasn't detectable.

I think what Frank tries to say is that to be able to accelerate
there must be a driving force, one of Newtons laws. If you are
coasting on flat terrain without a tailwind there is no driving
force.

Exactly. In fact, there are retarding forces, those being air resistance
and rolling resistance, at a minimum.

And as to Tom's question, why haven't I explained it? I guess I
foolishly persist in believing that some things are obvious to educated
people.


--
- Frank Krygowski

So when faced by experimental fact you simply deny it. Seem like
most teachers. "That ain't what I believe so it didn't happen."
Real education there alright.

The reason that I mentioned this in the first place is because it
did not meet my understanding of physics. I tried this multiple
times with the same results. I expected that someone here would
have some explanation for it and instead some jackasses said that
it was impossible and my personal experience wasn't just incorrect
but a lie. This is the sort of people that inhabit this
site. Freaks like Slocumb that tell us what it is like in the US
after living most of his life in foreign countries and Frank who
was used to dictating "the truth" to students and thinks that the
whole world is now as stupid as his students were for not punching
his lights out.

A week ago I did the same route. The asphalt has now degraded to
the same consistency as that of the surrounding area and it acts
just as you would expect it to.

Yes, Tom, we foolishly persist in believing that F=m*a just because
Newton demonstrated it hundreds of years ago and it's been confirmed by
millions of measurements ever since.

We foolishly doubt a guy who claims he felt his bike accelerate when no
force was available to accelerate it, and when there had to be forces
decelerating it. And who has many times attested to his own bad memory.

Oh, and who now says the phenomenon has stopped, so his world has
returned to normal physics.

So we believe fundamental 10th grade science instead of your daydreams.
We are an odd bunch, all right!

--
- Frank Krygowski

Make another moronic statement. It makes you look so smart. I
actually measured that speed increase on the speedo. Initially I was
2 mph when I entered that section at 20. And it didn't increase as
if the flat was a little downhill but very rapidly. And as I said -
after the asphalt aged to the same roughness of the approach that
speed increase disappeared.


Which is why on really smooth surfaces, bicyclists never have to
pedal? You're spouting an entirely new level of nonsense.


There are spots at which it's hard to tell by eye whether the road is
ascending or descending, some sort of optical illusion.


I recall reading about a famous on in Scotland, IIRC. But I think it's
not unusual at all.

Years ago, I bought a trailer bubble level
https://www.etrailer.com/Tools/Hopkins/HM08526.html
and fastened it to the inside driver's door of my car, to quickly
measure gradients of various hills. (Yeah, I know - we've all done
that.) Of course, as Jobst pointed out, it really works only at constant
speed, which means on cruise control.

Anyway, it's very common for gradients to deceive me. I'll swear the
road I'm driving is uphill a bit, but the level proves it's downhill, or
vice-versa.

That's probably what happened to Tom. But the adamant ignorance of
Newton's Laws is hard to take.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #89  
Old March 2nd 19, 03:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Theodore Heise[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 132
Default Grades (was: Conbtinental has come out with a GP5000S...)

On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 22:26:12 -0500,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 9:11 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:


There are spots at which it's hard to tell by eye whether the
road is ascending or descending, some sort of optical
illusion.


I recall reading about a famous on in Scotland, IIRC. But I
think it's not unusual at all.

Years ago, I bought a trailer bubble level
https://www.etrailer.com/Tools/Hopkins/HM08526.html and
fastened it to the inside driver's door of my car, to quickly
measure gradients of various hills. (Yeah, I know - we've all
done that.)


Or similar. Years ago (before small Garmin units were available)
I bought a surveyor's wheel and used it with an altimeter (Avocet
50) to measure the profiles of a number of local hills. To
improve the accuracy, I cross referenced it to grade measured
directly at various points using a long level and ruler

These days I use one of several different Garmins that all measure
altitude with barometric pressure. Coupled with Ride with GPS, I
have profiles of local routes readily available. I can easily
find online profiles of hills and routes I've never ridden.
Needless to say, the wheel and level went to Goodwill a few years
ago.

Regarding the trailer bubble, I bought one of them about the time
I bought the wheel, and tried finding a way to mount it on my
bike. The effect you attribute to Jobst (RIP) kept me from ever
getting much use out of it. I think it may still be sitting on my
work bench. Maybe I'll have to try it in the car!

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA
  #90  
Old March 2nd 19, 05:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Conbtinental has come out with a GP5000S and a GP5000TL

On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 6:11:48 PM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 3/1/2019 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 9:32:15 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2019 11:15 AM,
wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 11:25:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/22/2019 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 6:31:09 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:46:38 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 4:27 PM,
wrote:
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 1:10:42 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/21/2019 12:52 PM,
wrote:

Remember that I was describing the coast down test I had up
in Cull Canyon where I would coast down a really rough
section of road and then it would flatten out and when I
hit a 100 yard long patch of new and very smooth pavement
the bike would actually accelerate? Everyone wanted to
argue that wasn't possible but I did it again and again. As
the summer wore on the asphalt aged and got rougher and
though it was still pretty smooth the effect had
disappeared.

When you say the road "would flatten out" do you mean it was horizontal,
instead of downhill? Or do you mean the bumps went away and it remained
downhill?
--
- Frank Krygowski

It went downhill on a very rough road, flattened to
horizontal or at least the 0% grade indication on my
altimeter and then it climbed a bit before descending a
bike. The increase in speed was immediate upon entering the
smooth section and not a slow build up of speed as would come
from a declining road.

OK, if you were coasting and you had no tailwind that exceeded your
speed, you had nobody pushing you forward (which I've done for people
many times), and you had no rope towing you or some other weird situation...

And your bike actually accelerated when the road was horizontal? Yes,
that's impossible. Sorry, Tom, this is basic physics.

(And I had to include the rope tow because that was Jute's "deus ex
machina" on his first weird braggart tale here.)

Your story does, however, indicate the power of suggestion and how it
can mess with our perceptions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, if this is against physics why haven't you actually explained this to us?

To my way of thinking if E = 1/2M*V^2 and you reduce the
rolling resistance you coast for a longer distance to expend
the energy. But that isn't what happened. As I said - when I
hit the smooth pavement the bike increased its speed.

This was not a single case but multiple experiments and as the
smooth pavement degraded over the summer and grew rougher the
increasing speed disappeared at least to the level where it
wasn't detectable.

I think what Frank tries to say is that to be able to accelerate
there must be a driving force, one of Newtons laws. If you are
coasting on flat terrain without a tailwind there is no driving
force.

Exactly. In fact, there are retarding forces, those being air resistance
and rolling resistance, at a minimum.

And as to Tom's question, why haven't I explained it? I guess I
foolishly persist in believing that some things are obvious to educated
people.


--
- Frank Krygowski

So when faced by experimental fact you simply deny it. Seem like
most teachers. "That ain't what I believe so it didn't happen."
Real education there alright.

The reason that I mentioned this in the first place is because it
did not meet my understanding of physics. I tried this multiple
times with the same results. I expected that someone here would
have some explanation for it and instead some jackasses said that
it was impossible and my personal experience wasn't just incorrect
but a lie. This is the sort of people that inhabit this
site. Freaks like Slocumb that tell us what it is like in the US
after living most of his life in foreign countries and Frank who
was used to dictating "the truth" to students and thinks that the
whole world is now as stupid as his students were for not punching
his lights out.

A week ago I did the same route. The asphalt has now degraded to
the same consistency as that of the surrounding area and it acts
just as you would expect it to.

Yes, Tom, we foolishly persist in believing that F=m*a just because
Newton demonstrated it hundreds of years ago and it's been confirmed by
millions of measurements ever since.

We foolishly doubt a guy who claims he felt his bike accelerate when no
force was available to accelerate it, and when there had to be forces
decelerating it. And who has many times attested to his own bad memory.

Oh, and who now says the phenomenon has stopped, so his world has
returned to normal physics.

So we believe fundamental 10th grade science instead of your daydreams.
We are an odd bunch, all right!

--
- Frank Krygowski

Make another moronic statement. It makes you look so smart. I
actually measured that speed increase on the speedo. Initially I was
2 mph when I entered that section at 20. And it didn't increase as
if the flat was a little downhill but very rapidly. And as I said -
after the asphalt aged to the same roughness of the approach that
speed increase disappeared.


Which is why on really smooth surfaces, bicyclists never have to
pedal? You're spouting an entirely new level of nonsense.


There are spots at which it's hard to tell by eye whether the road is
ascending or descending, some sort of optical illusion.

--


I agree with you there but the acceleration was too rapid to be from gravity. I have asked a question over on the physics forum. Let's see if they have any answers.
 




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