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BB standard



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 13th 19, 10:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,047
Default BB standard

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:54:33 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 11/6/19 1:40 pm, jbeattie wrote:


BBs have gotten more attention than any other frame component in the
last 10-15 years. https://wheelsmfg.com/bb-standards Too much
attention. They should have gotten less attention. And before we
changed the shells, we had to cycle through ISIS and Octalink. I
think we hit the pinnacle with Shimano $16 outboard bearings in a
threaded BB with a Hollowtec crank.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-BB...Eg rQYdKwAN1A
Or a Campy equivalent if you're into Italiano.


Campagnolo UltraTorque BB & crank design is *the* pinnacle of
development as far as I am concerned. If there was never another BB
assy, I would be happy to use the UT design ad infinitum.

--
JS


I like mine but am aware that it could be a quarter lb lighter.
Ads
  #12  
Old June 23rd 19, 07:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,863
Default BB standard

On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

I wouldn't be against a BB of just sealed bearings except for the
reports of these causing the housing to wear and the bearings to pull
out with the removal of the cranks.


Viscount had those in their "Aerospace" frames. There was a slight
interference fit between the axle and the inner bearing race and you had
to thump it in a bit, supporting the far side bearing so it wasn't
driven out of the BB. To keep the axle from drifting in the bearings
over time, there was a circlip groove outside the bearings. The axles
tended to snap there, a bit of a problem when it happened while standing
on the pedals... personal experience there.

The appeal of simplicity was certainly the BB shell, two sealed
bearings, one axle. No adjustment per se. Every few years you could
pop the seals off and regrease the bearings. But the execution was
fatally flawed in that case.
  #13  
Old June 23rd 19, 09:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,869
Default BB standard

On 6/23/2019 1:15 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

I wouldn't be against a BB of just sealed bearings except for the
reports of these causing the housing to wear and the bearings to pull
out with the removal of the cranks.


Viscount had those in their "Aerospace" frames. There was a slight
interference fit between the axle and the inner bearing race and you had
to thump it in a bit, supporting the far side bearing so it wasn't
driven out of the BB. To keep the axle from drifting in the bearings
over time, there was a circlip groove outside the bearings. The axles
tended to snap there, a bit of a problem when it happened while standing
on the pedals... personal experience there.

The appeal of simplicity was certainly the BB shell, two sealed
bearings, one axle. No adjustment per se. Every few years you could
pop the seals off and regrease the bearings. But the execution was
fatally flawed in that case.


Yep that was very well known at the time.

Which didn't keep others from new an innovative paths to the
same damned thing:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/bart.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #14  
Old June 23rd 19, 09:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,043
Default BB standard

It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

  #15  
Old June 23rd 19, 10:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,047
Default BB standard

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?


You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.
  #16  
Old June 24th 19, 12:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,155
Default BB standard

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?


You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.


Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.

  #17  
Old June 24th 19, 12:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,869
Default BB standard

On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?


You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.


Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #18  
Old June 24th 19, 03:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,155
Default BB standard

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:19:34 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.


Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.


Too complicated and you gotta keep wiggling that damned shift. All the
time! Hardly any time left to log your new and unique experience on
Facebook. And maybe a movie of how to shift.

--
cheers,

John B.

  #19  
Old June 26th 19, 12:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
pH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default BB standard

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 4:19:42 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
mail.com wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.


Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Both of my driving kids like manual trannies. Older daughter had a 6-speed Veloraster (as I call it) and now same in a Mustang.
Son loves his 5sp Integra but it needs one more gear.

They both want to drive the family Morris Minor, which is where they got all there manual transmission exposure.

I think I'll let them,now, but they are in for a big surprise, the Morris being so much more massively powerful than what they're used to.

pH

  #20  
Old June 26th 19, 12:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
pH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default BB standard

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 4:56:40 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 4:19:42 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
mail.com wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Both of my driving kids like manual trannies. Older daughter had a 6-speed Veloraster (as I call it) and now same in a Mustang.
Son loves his 5sp Integra but it needs one more gear.

They both want to drive the family Morris Minor, which is where they got all there manual transmission exposure.

I think I'll let them,now, but they are in for a big surprise, the Morris being so much more massively powerful than what they're used to.


....I can't believe I wrote "there"...ouch!


pH


 




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