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When Cyclists Made Up an Entire Political Bloc



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 25th 19, 12:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 627
Default When Cyclists Made Up an Entire Political Bloc

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:00:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/24/2019 1:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Gas tax and related fees have paid most if not all road construction and maintenance costs in Oregon after the 1920s -- and in most states. Same with the interstate highways.

Huh.

Voters in this village were asked to pass a special levy for road
repaving a couple years ago. The mayor stood in the middle of my street
for the large photo in the newspaper.

The levy passed. The mayor's street was the first one paved. Mine is
still in the same horrible condition, and isn't scheduled for paving
this year.

I try to look on the good side and pretend it's natural traffic calming.


But had you actively supported the Mayor - been photographed standing
in the middle of the street waving a flag - than your street might
have been the second paved :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #22  
Old June 25th 19, 01:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 4,303
Default When Cyclists Made Up an Entire Political Bloc

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 7:00:36 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/24/2019 1:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Gas tax and related fees have paid most if not all road construction and maintenance costs in Oregon after the 1920s -- and in most states. Same with the interstate highways.

Huh.

Voters in this village were asked to pass a special levy for road
repaving a couple years ago. The mayor stood in the middle of my street
for the large photo in the newspaper.

The levy passed. The mayor's street was the first one paved. Mine is
still in the same horrible condition, and isn't scheduled for paving
this year.

I try to look on the good side and pretend it's natural traffic calming.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Oregon is NOT Ohio. I think too that Portland, Ohio is just a tad bigger than you little Ohio village. Thus things probably don't work the same in both locales.

Cheers
  #23  
Old June 25th 19, 01:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,994
Default When Cyclists Made Up an Entire Political Bloc

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 4:00:36 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/24/2019 1:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Gas tax and related fees have paid most if not all road construction and maintenance costs in Oregon after the 1920s -- and in most states. Same with the interstate highways.

Huh.

Voters in this village were asked to pass a special levy for road
repaving a couple years ago. The mayor stood in the middle of my street
for the large photo in the newspaper.

The levy passed. The mayor's street was the first one paved. Mine is
still in the same horrible condition, and isn't scheduled for paving
this year.

I try to look on the good side and pretend it's natural traffic calming.


Portland's approach was more conventional -- a gas tax. https://www.planetizen.com/news/2019...s-tax-may-2020 I think a levy is unfair and places the burden of public infrastructure disproportionately on homeowners.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #24  
Old June 25th 19, 05:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,239
Default When Cyclists Made Up an Entire Political Bloc

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 8:06:55 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 4:00:36 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/24/2019 1:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Gas tax and related fees have paid most if not all road construction and maintenance costs in Oregon after the 1920s -- and in most states. Same with the interstate highways.

Huh.

Voters in this village were asked to pass a special levy for road
repaving a couple years ago. The mayor stood in the middle of my street
for the large photo in the newspaper.

The levy passed. The mayor's street was the first one paved. Mine is
still in the same horrible condition, and isn't scheduled for paving
this year.

I try to look on the good side and pretend it's natural traffic calming..


Portland's approach was more conventional -- a gas tax. https://www.planetizen.com/news/2019...s-tax-may-2020 I think a levy is unfair and places the burden of public infrastructure disproportionately on homeowners.


I bet if you had an Easypass system charging a dime to every car driving into
Portland's city limits from Washington, Beaverton, Hillsville etc. you could
drop the property taxes to zero.

- Frank Krygowski
  #25  
Old June 25th 19, 02:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default When Cyclists Made Up an Entire Political Bloc

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:31:48 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:40:49 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:47:19 +0700, John B. wrote:

Do you really believe that cyclists were the determining factor in the
building of better roads?


Yes, but we just needed tracks and not a whole road.

"You wouldn’t know it now but in the 1890s Australia had the largest
bicycle path network in the world. As the long distance cycling centre
of the world for many years, Australia provides many of the most
fascinating stories from cycling’s early days. Wheeling Matilda: The
Story of Australian Cycling by Jim Fitzpatrick documents many of these
stories, with an account of almost 150 years of bicycling in Australia."

https://treadlie.com.au/wheeling-matilda/

And I've got a copy of the third edition of touring guide for motorists
produced in the early 1900's which was researched on a bicycle. The guy
was actuaslly producing them to selling as part of his business to sell
attire to eary motorists. Name escapes me atm.


And I read that of the some 913,000 kilometers of roadways in Australia
some 353,331 Km of the roads are paved (:-0)


It would be heavily weighted towards all the residential street on the SE
coastal strip, plus the national higways. a lot of inland and farm stuff
woud be gravel/unsealed. If you really want to tour in this country, you
best be happy with gravel roads and camping everywhere.

  #26  
Old June 25th 19, 04:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 9,148
Default When Cyclists Made Up an Entire Political Bloc

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 10:06:50 PM UTC+1, Chalo wrote:
In the early days of cycling, it was the pastime of rich fux, which gave it a certain implied legitimacy. Then for a time, it was the leading edge of high tech, to the point that the US government opened a second patent office just to serve cycling-related patents. So when this coalition of rich fux and tech boffins (and folks who aspired to be them) asked for some decent pavement, we started to get decent pavement.

It was the moral equivalent of today's public resources being thrown around to develop 5G, or yesterday's public resources being squandered to subsidize jet travel or freeways or railroads. Then as now, the rich and influential can use other people's money to get what they want. Sometimes it works out for those who pay the cost, and sometimes it doesn't. In the case of Good Roads, I think it worked in favor of almost everybody.


I didn't know that in the beginning cycling was the pastime of rich folk, but it stands to reason, because bicycles were expensive and required a lot of leisure to maintain. In Britain the clothes of the cyclists in old photos tell us they're middle-class or upper-middle-class folk, professionals and suchlike. In the States the major boost cycling got in the ten-speed era of the wretched (by modern standards) Peugeot bikes was led by middle class trendies and tofu-eaters, the sort of people how worried that if they jogged, their knees would wear out.

But not too long afterwards -- I would guess after WW1, this side of the water cycling became the sport of the workingman, and for those athletic enough an escape for a few years from the grinding life of the poor. Though, it must be said, the stories of drugs, including cocaine, consumed by some of those interwar endurance racers sounds like a modern UCI nightmare. (Not that the UCI doesn't deserve everything they got coming.)

Andre Jute
Who paid for Major Taylor's first bike?
  #27  
Old June 25th 19, 11:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 627
Default When Cyclists Made Up an Entire Political Bloc

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:22:45 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:31:48 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:40:49 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:47:19 +0700, John B. wrote:

Do you really believe that cyclists were the determining factor in the
building of better roads?

Yes, but we just needed tracks and not a whole road.

"You wouldn?t know it now but in the 1890s Australia had the largest
bicycle path network in the world. As the long distance cycling centre
of the world for many years, Australia provides many of the most
fascinating stories from cycling?s early days. Wheeling Matilda: The
Story of Australian Cycling by Jim Fitzpatrick documents many of these
stories, with an account of almost 150 years of bicycling in Australia."

https://treadlie.com.au/wheeling-matilda/

And I've got a copy of the third edition of touring guide for motorists
produced in the early 1900's which was researched on a bicycle. The guy
was actuaslly producing them to selling as part of his business to sell
attire to eary motorists. Name escapes me atm.


And I read that of the some 913,000 kilometers of roadways in Australia
some 353,331 Km of the roads are paved (:-0)


It would be heavily weighted towards all the residential street on the SE
coastal strip, plus the national higways. a lot of inland and farm stuff
woud be gravel/unsealed. If you really want to tour in this country, you
best be happy with gravel roads and camping everywhere.


I used to crew change from the Irian Jaya copper mine through Darwin
but the only time I have actually visited Australia was a few years
ago when I visited a friend in Perth for a week and the friend's
brother was getting his wife's car ready for a trip to eastern
Australia. I was really amazed to see that he was mounting racks to
carry extra fuel and water.

As an aside, I've always thought that Australians talked sort of funny
and when I was in Darwin several people mentioned my "funny accent"
:-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #28  
Old June 26th 19, 04:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default When Cyclists Made Up an Entire Political Bloc

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:50:09 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:22:45 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:31:48 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:40:49 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:47:19 +0700, John B. wrote:

Do you really believe that cyclists were the determining factor in
the building of better roads?

Yes, but we just needed tracks and not a whole road.

"You wouldn?t know it now but in the 1890s Australia had the largest
bicycle path network in the world. As the long distance cycling centre
of the world for many years, Australia provides many of the most
fascinating stories from cycling?s early days. Wheeling Matilda: The
Story of Australian Cycling by Jim Fitzpatrick documents many of these
stories, with an account of almost 150 years of bicycling in
Australia."

https://treadlie.com.au/wheeling-matilda/

And I've got a copy of the third edition of touring guide for
motorists produced in the early 1900's which was researched on a
bicycle. The guy was actuaslly producing them to selling as part of
his business to sell attire to eary motorists. Name escapes me atm.

And I read that of the some 913,000 kilometers of roadways in
Australia some 353,331 Km of the roads are paved (:-0)


It would be heavily weighted towards all the residential street on the
SE coastal strip, plus the national higways. a lot of inland and farm
stuff woud be gravel/unsealed. If you really want to tour in this
country, you best be happy with gravel roads and camping everywhere.


I used to crew change from the Irian Jaya copper mine through Darwin but
the only time I have actually visited Australia was a few years ago
when I visited a friend in Perth for a week and the friend's brother was
getting his wife's car ready for a trip to eastern Australia. I was
really amazed to see that he was mounting racks to carry extra fuel and
water.


Crossing the Nullabor, there is little choice in fuel supplies and do the
proprietors know it. Modern, fuel efficent vehicles give you a bit more
choice, but in general, leaving the coast can see fuel prices far higher
(up to +50%). They claim transport costs. A few jerry cans of fuel, can
give you a better fuel cost average, if you don't mind the fiddle.

You take water, because if you break down, it can be hours before any
recovery service and 100+F/40+C temperatures need to be considered.

When Bicycle Australa put together its Nullabor(Perth to Adelaide) bike
route guide in the 1980's, it listed the road houses along the route that
would let you fill up your water bottles from their tank of rainwater or
pumped groubdwater, and those who charged you for it and those who said
no.

Vistors often see all those streams marked on maps and assume they can
pick up water along the way. They are just stream beds that in some cases
don't see water annually and when it rains, you do no want to be anywhere
near them. I've seen a 50' wide, 10' deep stream bed turn into a banker
an hour after rain in the hills.

If you're using gravel roads, then you should have food for camping for a
week. Throw in a bit of water, and those gravel road turns very pliable,
no matter what you driving. That particular stream banker I mentioned
above locked us into a remote camp place for a week. They even moved us
to higher ground.

Aas well as the mushy roads, one "stream" had insufficent culverts and
demolished 100 yards of 20' road embankment that took days to be rebuilt.


As an aside, I've always thought that Australians talked sort of funny
and when I was in Darwin several people mentioned my "funny accent" :-)


Lol, sadly the internet is making everyone sound the same. bit like it
would be in USA. Australia did have regional accents, but nothing like
the Poms. After spending a few years in UK, swmbo'd can play "guess the
accent" good enough to tell them a potted history of their life.

  #29  
Old June 26th 19, 05:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default When Cyclists Made Up an Entire Political Bloc

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:46:00 -0700, Andre Jute wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 10:06:50 PM UTC+1, Chalo wrote:
In the early days of cycling, it was the pastime of rich fux, which
gave it a certain implied legitimacy. Then for a time, it was the
leading edge of high tech, to the point that the US government opened a
second patent office just to serve cycling-related patents. So when
this coalition of rich fux and tech boffins (and folks who aspired to
be them) asked for some decent pavement, we started to get decent
pavement.

It was the moral equivalent of today's public resources being thrown
around to develop 5G, or yesterday's public resources being squandered
to subsidize jet travel or freeways or railroads. Then as now, the
rich and influential can use other people's money to get what they
want. Sometimes it works out for those who pay the cost, and sometimes
it doesn't. In the case of Good Roads, I think it worked in favor of
almost everybody.


I didn't know that in the beginning cycling was the pastime of rich
folk, but it stands to reason, because bicycles were expensive and
required a lot of leisure to maintain.


They were initally custom builds.

In Britain the clothes of the
cyclists in old photos tell us they're middle-class or
upper-middle-class folk, professionals and suchlike.


Again, custom built. The three & four wheel versions would lead to the
developmet of the motor car when people addes, steam, electric and ICE
motors to them. the early cars all used "bicycle technology".

The more common "folk" would be a business that found a delivery bicycle
was a cheaper investment, than a horse and cart.

Penny farthing were a rich man's toy that incresed popularity as they
could be constructed by a wider range of "blacksmiths" and not just to
order.

The real take off was the development of the "safety/ordinary"and the and
the evolution of the specialist "black smith' and later factories that
produced them at a price the ordinary man could afford. (Hint Henry ford
learnt that lesson from bicycle manufacturers)

This was mainly by incresed access to paid emplpoymnt. If AJ had looked
around during his brief residence in Australa, he woud have found
historical photographs of hundreds and thousands of worker exiting
factories at the end of the day.

The individual household affordability of the "motor car" was what killed
the bicycle use.

In the States the
major boost cycling got in the ten-speed era of the wretched (by modern
standards) Peugeot bikes was led by middle class trendies and
tofu-eaters, the sort of people how worried that if they jogged, their
knees would wear out.

But not too long afterwards -- I would guess after WW1,


Naah, decades before. hint genealogical records pointed to it well
before then.

this side of the
water cycling became the sport of the workingman,


"Working men" were first recruted by the moneyed better on sports. If he
had skills, he couldget fitted out and sponsored by money, just like a
lot of race horse syndicates these days.

and for those athletic
enough an escape for a few years from the grinding life of the poor.
Though, it must be said, the stories of drugs, including cocaine,
consumed by some of those interwar endurance racers sounds like a modern
UCI nightmare. (Not that the UCI doesn't deserve everything they got
coming.)

Andre Jute Who paid for Major Taylor's first bike?


Jim fitzpatrick mght be able to tell you that or the MT association.


  #30  
Old June 26th 19, 05:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 627
Default When Cyclists Made Up an Entire Political Bloc

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 03:07:09 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:50:09 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:22:45 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:31:48 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:40:49 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:47:19 +0700, John B. wrote:

Do you really believe that cyclists were the determining factor in
the building of better roads?

Yes, but we just needed tracks and not a whole road.

"You wouldn?t know it now but in the 1890s Australia had the largest
bicycle path network in the world. As the long distance cycling centre
of the world for many years, Australia provides many of the most
fascinating stories from cycling?s early days. Wheeling Matilda: The
Story of Australian Cycling by Jim Fitzpatrick documents many of these
stories, with an account of almost 150 years of bicycling in
Australia."

https://treadlie.com.au/wheeling-matilda/

And I've got a copy of the third edition of touring guide for
motorists produced in the early 1900's which was researched on a
bicycle. The guy was actuaslly producing them to selling as part of
his business to sell attire to eary motorists. Name escapes me atm.

And I read that of the some 913,000 kilometers of roadways in
Australia some 353,331 Km of the roads are paved (:-0)

It would be heavily weighted towards all the residential street on the
SE coastal strip, plus the national higways. a lot of inland and farm
stuff woud be gravel/unsealed. If you really want to tour in this
country, you best be happy with gravel roads and camping everywhere.


I used to crew change from the Irian Jaya copper mine through Darwin but
the only time I have actually visited Australia was a few years ago
when I visited a friend in Perth for a week and the friend's brother was
getting his wife's car ready for a trip to eastern Australia. I was
really amazed to see that he was mounting racks to carry extra fuel and
water.


Crossing the Nullabor, there is little choice in fuel supplies and do the
proprietors know it. Modern, fuel efficent vehicles give you a bit more
choice, but in general, leaving the coast can see fuel prices far higher
(up to +50%). They claim transport costs. A few jerry cans of fuel, can
give you a better fuel cost average, if you don't mind the fiddle.


One of our guys at the copper mine got into Darwin and the crew change
airplane was broke so he had to lay over a week in Darwin. He rented a
Mini- Mok and with a Sheila he met in pub was riding around Darwin and
saw a sign "Alice Springs -". so he says to the Sheila, "Want to
drive to Alice Springs" and she says "sure". So off they went. An hour
or so later they haven't seen anything but bush and he says, "How far
is this Alice Springs anyway?" and she says. "Oh, about a thousand
miles."

So he turned around and went back :-)

You take water, because if you break down, it can be hours before any
recovery service and 100+F/40+C temperatures need to be considered.

When Bicycle Australa put together its Nullabor(Perth to Adelaide) bike
route guide in the 1980's, it listed the road houses along the route that
would let you fill up your water bottles from their tank of rainwater or
pumped groubdwater, and those who charged you for it and those who said
no.

Vistors often see all those streams marked on maps and assume they can
pick up water along the way. They are just stream beds that in some cases
don't see water annually and when it rains, you do no want to be anywhere
near them. I've seen a 50' wide, 10' deep stream bed turn into a banker
an hour after rain in the hills.

If you're using gravel roads, then you should have food for camping for a
week. Throw in a bit of water, and those gravel road turns very pliable,
no matter what you driving. That particular stream banker I mentioned
above locked us into a remote camp place for a week. They even moved us
to higher ground.

Aas well as the mushy roads, one "stream" had insufficent culverts and
demolished 100 yards of 20' road embankment that took days to be rebuilt.


As an aside, I've always thought that Australians talked sort of funny
and when I was in Darwin several people mentioned my "funny accent" :-)


Lol, sadly the internet is making everyone sound the same. bit like it
would be in USA. Australia did have regional accents, but nothing like
the Poms. After spending a few years in UK, swmbo'd can play "guess the
accent" good enough to tell them a potted history of their life.


Years ago I met a USian woman in Singapore and she said something
like "Gee, it's nice to hear someone from home talking". I was amazed
as I have no accent at all and either did she :-)

When I worked for the Indonesian National Petroleum Agency I was once
asked, in English, to attend a conference with a USian oil well
drilling. When I asked why the Indonesian chap told me that he
couldn't understand the drilling people. So I went and he was correct
the "boss driller" was from west Texas and had an accent that even I
could hardly understand :-)

--
cheers,

John B.

 




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