A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Ceramic drive chain



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 20th 19, 02:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
db[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Ceramic drive chain

Check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

It all looks beautifully smooth etc. But I wonder, how
does it stand up to hard pedalling, like standing on the
pedals on a steep uphill? Is the force transfer still smooth
and easy?

--
Dieter Britz
Ads
  #2  
Old June 20th 19, 03:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,310
Default Ceramic drive chain

On 20/06/2019 14.26, db wrote:
Check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

It all looks beautifully smooth etc. But I wonder, how
does it stand up to hard pedalling, like standing on the
pedals on a steep uphill? Is the force transfer still smooth
and easy?


Also the force is transmitted over a good few links in a traditional
system, not just one as in here. It looks like a good idea, but I'l
like to see it used in anger.

  #3  
Old June 20th 19, 05:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,337
Default Ceramic drive chain

On 6/20/2019 10:08 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 20/06/2019 14.26, db wrote:
Check this:* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

It all looks beautifully smooth etc. But I wonder, how
does it stand up to hard pedalling, like standing on the
pedals on a steep uphill? Is the force transfer still smooth
and easy?


Also the force is transmitted over a good few links in a traditional
system, not just one as in here.* It looks like a good idea, but I'l
like to see it used in anger.


The term "vaporware" comes to mind.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #4  
Old June 20th 19, 07:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,991
Default Ceramic drive chain

When I first saw this nonsense a few months ago, I recognized that their little strainer basket cassette thing would never be able to tolerate the side loads resulting from a person pedaling for propulsion. Building the cassette, bearings, and drive shaft rigid and strong enough to do the implied job would make the weight of the system uncompetitive with existing solutions.
  #5  
Old June 20th 19, 10:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,433
Default Ceramic drive chain

On 6/20/2019 1:31 PM, Chalo wrote:
When I first saw this nonsense a few months ago, I recognized that their little strainer basket cassette thing would never be able to tolerate the side loads resulting from a person pedaling for propulsion. Building the cassette, bearings, and drive shaft rigid and strong enough to do the implied job would make the weight of the system uncompetitive with existing solutions.


Agreed. Which is why I contrasted it with closed-case bevel
gears. This is not that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #6  
Old June 20th 19, 11:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 593
Default Ceramic drive chain

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 13:26:21 -0000 (UTC), db
wrote:

Check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

It all looks beautifully smooth etc. But I wonder, how
does it stand up to hard pedalling, like standing on the
pedals on a steep uphill? Is the force transfer still smooth
and easy?


Well, one of the properties that make ceramic a better choice for
bearings is that it is harder than steel and the "teeth" on "pinion"
gears on the Ceramic speed machine are small ball bearings so I would
assume that they would withstand the rather weak forces of pedaling a
bike.

I believe that ceramic bearings are used in the engines of F1 cars
which produce hundreds of horsepower so a 1 hp (745 watts) cyclist
probably won't be a real problem :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #7  
Old June 21st 19, 12:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 593
Default Ceramic drive chain

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:31:10 -0700 (PDT), Chalo
wrote:

When I first saw this nonsense a few months ago, I recognized that their little strainer basket cassette thing would never be able to tolerate the side loads resulting from a person pedaling for propulsion. Building the cassette, bearings, and drive shaft rigid and strong enough to do the implied job would make the weight of the system uncompetitive with existing solutions.


" CeramicSpeed's USA office, and the University of Colorado Boulder's
Mechanical Engineering Department" developed the design so one might
assume that it is likely that problems such as you describe were
considered during the design phase.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #8  
Old June 21st 19, 12:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,433
Default Ceramic drive chain

On 6/20/2019 5:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 13:26:21 -0000 (UTC), db
wrote:

Check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

It all looks beautifully smooth etc. But I wonder, how
does it stand up to hard pedalling, like standing on the
pedals on a steep uphill? Is the force transfer still smooth
and easy?


Well, one of the properties that make ceramic a better choice for
bearings is that it is harder than steel and the "teeth" on "pinion"
gears on the Ceramic speed machine are small ball bearings so I would
assume that they would withstand the rather weak forces of pedaling a
bike.

I believe that ceramic bearings are used in the engines of F1 cars
which produce hundreds of horsepower so a 1 hp (745 watts) cyclist
probably won't be a real problem :-)



It's not about ceramic or bearings. If you inspect worn
gearcases you'll notice the forces across a gear set want to
spread the shafts away from each other ( I think Frank
intimated that earlier). With the driveshaft inside a
chainstay I would expect failure to be from the big discey
thing flexing toward the spokes. Ceramic would shatter,
ceramic coated steel would need to be thicker. Just my
opinion of course but the term 'vaporware' comes to mind.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #9  
Old June 21st 19, 12:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,136
Default Ceramic drive chain

On Thursday, June 20, 2019 at 10:38:01 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2019 1:31 PM, Chalo wrote:
When I first saw this nonsense a few months ago, I recognized that their little strainer basket cassette thing would never be able to tolerate the side loads resulting from a person pedaling for propulsion. Building the cassette, bearings, and drive shaft rigid and strong enough to do the implied job would make the weight of the system uncompetitive with existing solutions.


Agreed. Which is why I contrasted it with closed-case bevel
gears. This is not that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Strictly for the sake of argument, enclosing the bevel gear system pictured, as something nearer a full enclosure rather than an "oil bath", need not necessarily add too much weight. However, I have experience of an over-light near-full enclosure system called the Country, a proprietary chaincase available on Utopia-Velo's bikes, which impressed me at first but which soon in even my unchallenging use started casting off pieces. My full experience with it (and other chain cases and chain enclosures) is described at
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2233
and read or scroll down to the message that starts "I shall have to eat a bit of humble pie here."

Andre Jute
To many components suitable only for racers are sold to recreational cyclists
  #10  
Old June 21st 19, 02:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 593
Default Ceramic drive chain

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 18:11:54 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/20/2019 5:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 13:26:21 -0000 (UTC), db
wrote:

Check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

It all looks beautifully smooth etc. But I wonder, how
does it stand up to hard pedalling, like standing on the
pedals on a steep uphill? Is the force transfer still smooth
and easy?


Well, one of the properties that make ceramic a better choice for
bearings is that it is harder than steel and the "teeth" on "pinion"
gears on the Ceramic speed machine are small ball bearings so I would
assume that they would withstand the rather weak forces of pedaling a
bike.

I believe that ceramic bearings are used in the engines of F1 cars
which produce hundreds of horsepower so a 1 hp (745 watts) cyclist
probably won't be a real problem :-)



It's not about ceramic or bearings. If you inspect worn
gearcases you'll notice the forces across a gear set want to
spread the shafts away from each other ( I think Frank
intimated that earlier). With the driveshaft inside a
chainstay I would expect failure to be from the big discey
thing flexing toward the spokes. Ceramic would shatter,
ceramic coated steel would need to be thicker. Just my
opinion of course but the term 'vaporware' comes to mind.


The C.S. system supports the front and rear "pinion" with bearings.
The "ring gear" (to use your terminology) is supported at the "output
shaft" just like other 90 degree gear sets. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bevel_gear

Re "ceramic" the term, while reminiscent of one's dinner plate, is
actually " Si3N4" a material that is 2 to three times harder than
conventional bearing steels, has a tensile strength of about 54,403
psi and a modulus of rupture of from 65,310 to 159,541 psi.
http://www.memsnet.org/material/siliconnitridesi3n4/

The question than becomes whether or not the "ring gear" will flex
when loaded and I suggest that the designers will have (probably)
taken that under consideration during the design phase. They have a
system in operation at present and undoubtedly will be testing for
that problem.
https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/driven/

My own guess the real question will be that while the system
undoubtedly having less friction than a chain drive, whether that
reduced friction will be worth the money that the new system will cost
and will it be legal in bicycle racing.

At present the experimental system seems to be a 12 speed system and
whether that will be acceptable in these days of the 11 - 2 chain
drive systems with perhaps 20 effective gear ratios is, perhaps,
debatable, and lets face it, that is the key factor in developing a
"new" system. WILL IT SELL?
--
cheers,

John B.

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chain and shaft drive efficiency [email protected] Techniques 21 June 23rd 09 07:44 AM
Drive chain in a state of flux. Martin[_2_] UK 6 August 13th 08 09:08 PM
Block chain, roller chain, shaft-drive, wood-rim, and world's weirdest chain [email protected] Techniques 8 April 15th 07 01:50 AM
Drive chain 'click' question Dave Hallsworth Techniques 9 October 31st 04 02:16 PM
Drive chain info needed Tim Hall UK 2 April 5th 04 01:08 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.