OT Flame War

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 05:11:34 GMT "Frank Olson"
used 196 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

L. Ron Hubbard did it... I figure I can come up with a religion for idiots
too...


Isn't that the same kind of generalization you're accusing Ed of?


--
-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...

Yes and paper ballots worked great in Florida in 2000

Those were not "paper ballots" as usually defined, but machine punched
cards. As is typical practice, the oldest machines that spoil the
highest percentage of ballots were used in predominantly black precincts.

--
Tom Sherman

Oddly enough in counties run by democrats who decided what type of
balloting to use in the first place

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Com..._17_04_JF.html

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Mr. Ed Dolan wrote:

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...

Edward Dolan wrote:


...The fact is that the poor in this country
live better than do the poor in any other country in the world including
Europe's poor....

Mr. Dolan opens his mouth and removes all doubt of his willful ignorance.
How is being homeless, hungry, and without medical care better than
having the provision of housing, food and medical care guaranteed.

This has to be one of the most idiotic things Mr. Dolan has ever written,
which is saying a lot.


I do not see any poor people starving in the streets. Until I do I will
not worry excessively about them. We have welfare programs to pick up
those who fall by the wayside.

If Worthington is like many small towns in the US, the police pick up
homeless people and drop them off in a larger city.

I surely hope that is what the police do. But I do not see any people
starving in the streets of Sioux Falls either and that is a large city. I
suppose I would have to go to a really large city like New York in order to
see people starving in the streets. But I once lived in New York and I never
did see any people starving in the streets there. Please, Mr. Tom, tell me
where I can go in this country to see some people starving in the streets.
How about the Quad Cities?

If and when I finally do see some people starving in the streets, I am going
to advise them to go to a shelter where they can get a good meal. After all,
it is better to eat something than to be starving in the streets and making
a confounded nuisance of yourself. Besides, it is unsightly to see starving
people laying about prostate in the streets. I do not know if you can even
see people starving in the streets of Calcutta, India. I always wanted to go
there to see that.

There are plenty of lay-a-bouts in the public squares and streets of San
Francisco and Seattle, but they all look very well fed to me. I would pay
good money to see someone starving in the streets, but I don't know where to
go to see such a sight. When I look around me, all I ever see are extremely
well fed people with huge pot bellies on the men and huge pot thighs on the
women. I haven't seen a starving person in a coon's age.

There are plenty of homeless people in the US. And the government provided
benefits are not enough to live on properly, or to even rent an apartment
(it is hard to get hired when one is homeless).

Housing does seem terribly expensive in this country, especially in the
Metros. I would advise all those who are homeless to get the hell out of the
city and into a rural area where you will get taken care of at much lower
rents. There are houses for sale for just a few thousand dollars here in the
rural areas of the Upper Midwest. After all, if you aren't working, you are
better off not working where living expenses are not so high. Elementary, my
dear Watson.

You tell me the poor have no bread. I say let them eat cake.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Mark Leuck wrote:
[...]
Yes and paper ballots worked great in Florida in 2000

Those were not "paper ballots" as usually defined, but machine punched
cards. As is typical practice, the oldest machines that spoil the highest
percentage of ballots were used in predominantly black precincts.

The ballots used here were paper ballets (a single sheet) where you just
connected the lines between the name and the party with a lead pencil. What
could be simpler. And more idiot proof.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:

"gavin11756" wrote in
message ...

Hitler indeed had courage. He won the Iron cross twice in WW1. His
country was ruined by the Versailles treaty which the British though
was bad, and the "you know who " had a lot to do with ruining the
country.

German troops popular in Russia as they hated Stalin


The downtrodden of the Soviet Union initially welcomed the Germans as
liberators. If Hitler had played his cards different the outcome could
have been different.

By the way, does any liberal know who killed more people in the course of
his rule, the National Socialist Hitler or the Communist Stalin?

Stalin was a communist in name only.

Stalin was a serious dedicated practical communist and he tried his worst to
try to make the system work, even if it meant that he had to kill many
millions of people.

If we take various estimates of deaths due to various purges under Stalin,
we end up with a range of 15-30 million, which is greater than the 5-7
million that died under Hitler in similar circumstances.

However, weighed against this is the number of deaths caused by Hitler
waging war in Europe which has been estimated to be in excess of 40
million (25-30 million, or about 1 in every 8 in the Soviet Union alone).

I keep reading that Stalin was a far greater killer than Hitler, but maybe
that does not include the deaths involved in WW II. The thing that stands
out for me is that Stalin killed his own countrymen. Hitler did this too,
but he did not regard the Jews and certain other peoples as Germans. That
being the case, I think Stalin was the greater monster. But herein lies the
danger of all ideology. It is imperative that men never be certain they are
absolutely right about anything under the sun and act accordingly. Doubt
about what you think is true is the beginning of all wisdom.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 04:51:39 GMT "Frank Olson"
used 17 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
.. .

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

Frank, you're not going to let him get away with that RU?


Yup... He's a cretin. Rational people ignore idiotic ravings in favour
of
informed debate. Mr. Dolan continues to spout nonsense about the Muslim
faith based on supposition, hatred, and the actions of a small minority.
He
spouts lies and innuendo about people he's never met based on nothing more
than "if they don't think like me, they're traitors". He continues to do
absolutely *nothing* but make funny faces in front of his computer monitor
while letting others fight the "war" he so strongly favours.


Funny thing about the Internet, it has enabled people you would
normally never hear from to express their views (however skewed they
may be). These might be the types that are shirtless on a street
corner, ringing a cowbell, proclaiming "The end is near!". Or they
may be a well respected figure in their community - they could be a
health worker, an executive, a blue collar tradesman, military
personnel, you name it.

All I ever go by are the words I see in front of me on the computer screen.
Nothing else ever matters in the slightest.

Modern technology has allowed their opinions (or rants) to appear
right in your own home, in the form of electrons dancing across your
screen. Everybody has an opinion about religion, morality, politics,
world affairs, gay-marrage, drug legalization, etc...

Yes, that is true, but the ability to express that opinion in written form
that someone else might enjoy reading is not common. It takes some talent
and lots of practice.

The one thing I have YET to see is someone responding to a person on
the virtual soapbox and say, "You're right. My view on that issue was
wrong, thank you for setting me straight." It just does not happen.

Such a thought has never even occurred to me. What a novel idea! If anyone
ever agreed with me about anything and said so, I would be in shock for a
week.

There is an interesting sociological lesson in here somewhere. People
don't come to Usenet topics like this to "debate". They come to vent
frustration. They come to entertain themselves. Some just want
someone to listen to them. I'm fairly certain no one actually
believes they can change someone's mind about these issues.

Graham, you are right on your every point. But who would ever think
otherwise. Anyone who takes any of this Usenet nonsense seriously has got to
have rocks in his head. It is nothing but entertainment for me. However, a
side benefit is that it has sharpened my writing skills. I have always been
a great reader all of my life, but I have never written much. I think Usenet
was invented for souls like me.

Anyone who is not enjoying all this useless palaver should go elsewhere,
maybe back to the boob tube, or God forbid, go ride their bikes.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Frank Olson" wrote in message
news:aqhkd.170627$%k.120527@pd7tw2no...
"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

The Koran is what anyone wants to make of it. So is the Bible.
Christians stopped making a horror of the Bible several centuries ago.

Oh?? Really?? How do you explain the Biblical "horrors" of this
century then?? David Koresh. Jim Jones. Bountiful.

The horrors of this century are all being committed by Muslims. The
horrors of the last century, which you reference, were very small cults,
aberrations of Christianity.

Bountiful is still in full operation. The men there are abusing girls as
young as eleven and twelve. I guess living in isolation in *Minnesota*
tends to make you fell all warm and fuzzy.

Are these Mormons or what? Are the girls being stoned to death for imaginary
"dishonor"?

However, the main horrors of the last century were committed by leftist
ideologues, like Hitler and Stalin and Mao, etc. In other words, they
were like you that way since you are also nothing but a leftist
ideologue.

Hmmm... Ever heard of Robert Pickton??

Nope. Should I have?

The Muslims are still making a horror of their Koran.

So are people that espouse Christianity.

Not right now today they aren't.

"Bountiful"...

Are these Mormons? If they are that would account for it. It is basically a
cult religion.

"Islam" (as a religion) is open to interpretation just as
Chrisianity is. God gave us the ability to reason and the freedom to
interpret His Word. Individuals that choose to "spin" that Word
abound. "Extremists" exist in *every* faith. You can't condemn an
entire people because of the actions of a few insane individuals.

The very great numbers of Muslims who are choosing to interpret their
religion one way as opposed to another way are never just a few, but
rather constitute the vast majority in various regions of the world,
most particularly in the Middle East.

And this premise is based on what statistical evidence??

The great statistic of believing what you see with your own two eyes.

Ahhh... then your "word" is "law"... :-))
My mistake for not recognizing your "greatness".

Just believe your own two eyes and forget "statistics", which as everyone
knows can be made to lie about most anything.

The same goes for Tom Sherman who prefers to bash Christianity and
refer us to cartoon sites making jokes of hanging women and stoning
children in lieu of condemning these atrocities.

Islamic fundamentalism isn't responsible for these atrocities. Men
(and even some women) are.

But all those men (and women) turn out to be Muslims. Most peculiar? Or
just coincidental?

Of course they are!!! We're talking about *Islamic* fundamentalism. Not
Sikh, Hindu, or even Christian...

In other words, Islamic (Muslim) men and women are committing the
atrocities, not Christians or Jews or any others.

It is precisely and exactly Islamic fundamentalism that is indeed
responsible for the atrocities that Muslims are committing in the world
today. What men think matters and religious thought gone astray is just
as dangerous as any other kind of thought gone astray, maybe more so.

You obviously don't know how a "fundamentalist" interprets the Quran.

Sure I do. It is a simple religion for simple people. Anyone who is not
an idiot like you can understand it.

L. Ron Hubbard did it... I figure I can come up with a religion for
idiots too...

Yes, there are a lot of very simple religions in the world because there are
a lot of very simple people in the world. But mainstream Christianity as it
has developed over a period of two thousand years is not a simple religion.
It is highly sophisticated and it takes intelligence to be able to follow
it.

snip

Frank, you need to learn how to edit a post. As I have already told you, it
is not necessary to respond to me line by line. Just go for the important
stuff - if you can distinguish what is important from what is not important.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Mark Leuck" wrote in message
news:lZhkd.15193$V41.10732@attbi_s52...
[...]
Various reasons, mostly stupid things I did over a 5 year period, funny
thing tho is you see many of the others in the same situation and almost
all
were there because of the following reasons

1. That was the life they chose (yes Tom those people do exist)
2. Alcoholism
3. Drug abuse

(my reasons were not any of those)

Now you can "think" all you want that the homeless are nothing but old
men,
women and children forced out by an oppressive government or cruel
business
hell-bent on starving them out of existance but I assure you that isn't
the
case, if you want proof go to any soup kitchen (nice one in N. Vegas) and
talk to the people, ever been to one?

They can easily get out of that situation yet they don't and won't. I
don't
know where you get your information but it is clearly wrong about many
things based on my own experience and government statistics, my guess is
you
want to believe it regardless if it is factual or not and why this is I
don't know. ...

Mr. Sherman thinks like he does because he has been brainwashed by liberal
and socialist ideology. In short, he is unreconstructed even though those
ideologies have been discredited by history. He will never get anything
right about society until he gives up his liberal and socialist ideologies.
He looks at the world through tinted glasses and is not able to see things
as they really are. That is always the effect of an ideology.

Ideology is nothing but a starting point. It can never be the end point. It
has to be trimmed to fit the realities. Mr. Sherman has made the colossal
mistake of thinking his ideology is an end point. Ideology is like
scientific theory. As facts come to light, it has to be changed to fit the
facts. Never the reverse. But an end of history ideology will make the facts
fit the ideology. It gets it backwards. That is why the Soviet Union fell
and why all ideologies end up on the scrap heap of history.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Ogg Oggibly wrote:

Yeah. Wring your hands. Jerk.

That's what /you're/ doing.

I haven't heard of Hindus stoning anybody.

Forms of execution and lynching tend to move across religious
boundaries. It's that "local customs" thing again, regrettably. Note
that stoning was quite normal in the Middle East well before Islam even
existed, as you can find in the Bible. It is actually the God commanded
death of transgressions of /Biblical/ law, so no particular surprise
that another creed's Holy Book is apparently keen on it too. But just
like followers of the Bible don't necessarily feel the need to stone
people, nor does it it automatically follow that the Koran's devotees
do. Some do, but by no means the majority.

If you know of recent Hindu stonings I would
appreciate you pointing me to them. I will show no reluctance to condemn
them.

So you say, but you'll actually bang on and on and on and on and on and
on and on and on some more about how dreadful Muslims and their religion
are.

I thought I made that clear a while back. Give me a second and I will copy
and paste it here for you to read again.

"Let me make this clear to you. I AM NOT EQUATING THE ACTIONS OF EXTREMISTS
MUSLIMS, ISLAMIC GOVERNMENTS AND CLERICS WITH ALL MUSLIMS."

So you say, but then you do just what you say you don't do, by dopey
things like saying there is a global war on. Global means everywhere
and war is what was happening in Falluja yesterday. That is not
happening everywhere, thus there is not a global war going on between
Muslims and anyone else.

"I have no problem condemning abuses of women and children be it my next
door
neighbor, a local priest, a Hindu, or an Islamic State/Nation, or whoever."

You say you don't have a problem doing it, but the only people you ever
get round to condemning in actuality are Muslims.

No the female child of the post graduate Muslim (why do you always feel the
need to mention the educational attainments of your Muslim acquaintances)

I work in a University so the examples I tend to meet are at University,
I mention what they do to underline they're pretty normal people.

relatively safe in Scotland which happens, I believe to be a predominately
Christian country which would deal harshly with the crime of stoning. But
let's move that educated female child, who grew up among the Scottish
infidels, to a Islamic Republic and her chances of being stoned to death go
from nil to the real possibility of becoming a Zhila. It is this reality
that your brain seems not to be able to accept.

The reality is that most Muslims live in Muslim states and about half of
them are female. That would be, a very conservative ballpark estimate,
say 300 million people in significant danger of being stoned. That's
self evidently nonsense.

If you believe in civilized
human rights, you should give thought, if that is possible, to supporting
the separation of mosque and state.

I prefer disestablishment, as it happens, but OTOH the Church of England
is an established state religion and shows that it is not necessarily a
sure fire route to evildoing.

Apparently neither does his girlfriend who doesn't want to talk about what
is going on in her homeland. Or maybe like Peter she is apathetic about the
Jihad declared in Amsterdam and feels its just another isolated incidence by
some bad apples whose motivations are of no interest or consequence.

I never said that, I said she didn't pass on the information that her
friends and relations were quaking in their boots as they "braced for
Jihad", probably, I surmised, because none of them told her that they
were. Note that quaking in one's boots because of an impending war that
you think has just been declared is /not/ the same thing as serious
concern. The Dutch have a great love of debate and free speech and the
national outcry appears to be that this was denied to Theo van Gogh by
his murder, and quite right too. Though there is a wave of anti-Muslim
feeling at present and the Dutch party leader interviewed on the BBC was
keen to use the word "jihad", he was also keen to point out he was only
interested in hunting down fanatics and that almost all the country's
Muslims (nearly a million) were "normal people like you and me". And
they are, though you seem to think that their faith directs them towards
evil. That certain members of their faith are trying to use the
religion to do that I won't deny, but you've been pointed at plenty of
examples of that from other faiths too, yet you persist in pouring all
of your ire into one place.

You've now crossed over into making up things I didn't say and
gratuitous insults, so time to bow out here.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 18:06:21 -0600, "Edward Dolan"
wrote:

Jeez! This time I count three sentences, although two of them are rather
short. But always the mention of the arse.

Yes, and as long as the arse keeps replying, the arse's name will keep
coming up in the attributions. Jeez, Ed, how obvious does sarcasm
have to be before you notice it?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University