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#21
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Bicycling specific clothing = why not?
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 4:13:10 PM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
John B. wrote: On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 3:17:11 PM UTC-4, AK wrote: On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 10:06:19 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:30:19 AM UTC-4, news18 wrote: On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 16:00:38 +1000, James wrote: (In most of Australia it is a legal requirement to wear a helmet. That in itself could be said to be a change to what you're wearing.) Unless you've just been up a ladder. Bacxkground; men over 60 feature significantly in deaths from falling off a ladder in Australia and I consider a bicycle helment of better use than those plastic "construction hats". Ladder manufacturers are too smart to accept promotion of ladder helmets. It will make use of ladders seem too dangerous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07o-TASvIxY - Frank Krygowski Mr. Anderon is somewhat interesting. He tends to drag things out. So I only watched half of it. If he believes we should not wear a helmet while biking, I can give him names of folks permanently injured because they chose not to wear a helmet. I can give names of people who died of brain injuries - at least, that was the most likely cause of death - and who didn't wear helmets. But all the ones I personally knew were inside cars at the time. That's not unusual, given the roughly 40,000 annual motorist deaths in this country. I had one friend who used to ride a motorcycle almost identical to mine, an antique BMW. He died while wearing a helmet. I know that the number of pedestrians killed annually in the U.S., Canada, Britain, Australia (and probably more countries) greatly exceeds the number of bicyclists killed. As an example, the recent U.S. pedestrian fatality counts have been approaching 6000. (Bicyclist fatalities are about 800.) I've seen NEISS data showing that the percentage of fatalities due to brain injury are about 45% for bikes, about 40% for pedestrians. That means _lots_ more ped TBI deaths. And other data shows that the pedestrians are at more risk per mile traveled, too. And I've had friends who suffered pretty severe (as in, rush to the ER) head injuries from just walking. They each tripped and fell on their face. Another good friend just had the same thing happen, but didn't go to ER; she just dealt with the resulting facial bruises on her own. When, oh when, are we going to get helmet promotion for pedestrians and motorists? - Frank Krygowski I read somewhere that some 450 USians die annually from falling out of bed. It is apparent that "bed Helmets" or at least safety belts should be required. Why don't our leaders do something to stop this carnage! -- cheers, John B. How many times will you post that? I’m tired of explaining to you about universe of discourse. What percentage of those sleeping in beds die from falling out of bed? Let me give you a hint. 300 or so million Americans sleep in beds. 450 die falling out of them. The math is not complicated. 700 or so die cycling. How many cycle? See where I’m going with this? I guess not..l -- duane That's the engineer in John who cannot understand that these sorts of injuries are measured in man/hours per fatality. For bicycling the numbers are a little vague but about a fifth of the population cycles. Finding an average time of ride would be extremely difficult since most of these are slow speed rides not more than an hour whereas you or I might ride for 8 hours on a century. But as a guess let's put the number of man-hours of riding at about 1/5 of 320,000,000 at approximately 100 Million hours per year. This is an average cycling time of 1.5 hours PER YEAR for 64 Million people. This is purposely underestimated to give worst case scenarios concerning fatalities. While we have a wide variation in fatalities it all seems to revolved around approximately 800 fatalities per year. Or one fatalities per 96 million hours. EVERYONE sleeps approximately 6 hours a day as a minimum. That means that we're looking at about one fatality per 2 billion hours of participation assuming 400 yearly fatalities from falling out of bed. This makes bicycle only 20 times as dangerous as falling out of bed. Now, any increase in the number of bicycling hours per year makes it appear correspondingly safer. |
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#22
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Bicycling specific clothing = why not?
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:50:04 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:13:10 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote: John B. wrote: On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 3:17:11 PM UTC-4, AK wrote: If he believes we should not wear a helmet while biking, I can give him names of folks permanently injured because they chose not to wear a helmet. I can give names of people who died of brain injuries - at least, that was the most likely cause of death - and who didn't wear helmets. But all the ones I personally knew were inside cars at the time. That's not unusual, given the roughly 40,000 annual motorist deaths in this country. I had one friend who used to ride a motorcycle almost identical to mine, an antique BMW. He died while wearing a helmet. I know that the number of pedestrians killed annually in the U.S., Canada, Britain, Australia (and probably more countries) greatly exceeds the number of bicyclists killed. As an example, the recent U.S. pedestrian fatality counts have been approaching 6000. (Bicyclist fatalities are about 800.) I've seen NEISS data showing that the percentage of fatalities due to brain injury are about 45% for bikes, about 40% for pedestrians. That means _lots_ more ped TBI deaths. And other data shows that the pedestrians are at more risk per mile traveled, too. And I've had friends who suffered pretty severe (as in, rush to the ER) head injuries from just walking. They each tripped and fell on their face.. Another good friend just had the same thing happen, but didn't go to ER; she just dealt with the resulting facial bruises on her own. When, oh when, are we going to get helmet promotion for pedestrians and motorists? - Frank Krygowski I read somewhere that some 450 USians die annually from falling out of bed. It is apparent that "bed Helmets" or at least safety belts should be required. Why don't our leaders do something to stop this carnage! -- cheers, John B. How many times will you post that? I’m tired of explaining to you about universe of discourse. What percentage of those sleeping in beds die from falling out of bed? Let me give you a hint. 300 or so million Americans sleep in beds. 450 die falling out of them. The math is not complicated. 700 or so die cycling. How many cycle? See where I’m going with this? I guess not..l AK started this sub-thread with his statement that he knew head injured cyclists, and his implication that therefore bicyclists should wear helmets. Nobody has suitably explained why that logic applies only for bicyclists, who are NOT at unusual individual risk, and who make up only a microscopic percentage of serious brain injuries nationally. So where ARE you going? Are you back to claiming that all bicyclists should wear helmets? And that nobody should post any data skeptical of helmets? Perhaps you should just let people post what they like, and read only what interests you. And perhaps you should let each person make their own choice of hat style. Or gosh, maybe even ride without hats! https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...-02_grande.jpg - Frank Krygowski And not disparage those who choose to wear a helmet by you calling them "magic Hats". LOL Cheers |
#23
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Bicycling specific clothing = why not?
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:13:10 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote: John B. wrote: On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 3:17:11 PM UTC-4, AK wrote: If he believes we should not wear a helmet while biking, I can give him names of folks permanently injured because they chose not to wear a helmet. I can give names of people who died of brain injuries - at least, that was the most likely cause of death - and who didn't wear helmets. But all the ones I personally knew were inside cars at the time. That's not unusual, given the roughly 40,000 annual motorist deaths in this country. I had one friend who used to ride a motorcycle almost identical to mine, an antique BMW. He died while wearing a helmet. I know that the number of pedestrians killed annually in the U.S., Canada, Britain, Australia (and probably more countries) greatly exceeds the number of bicyclists killed. As an example, the recent U.S. pedestrian fatality counts have been approaching 6000. (Bicyclist fatalities are about 800.) I've seen NEISS data showing that the percentage of fatalities due to brain injury are about 45% for bikes, about 40% for pedestrians. That means _lots_ more ped TBI deaths. And other data shows that the pedestrians are at more risk per mile traveled, too. And I've had friends who suffered pretty severe (as in, rush to the ER) head injuries from just walking. They each tripped and fell on their face. Another good friend just had the same thing happen, but didn't go to ER; she just dealt with the resulting facial bruises on her own. When, oh when, are we going to get helmet promotion for pedestrians and motorists? - Frank Krygowski I read somewhere that some 450 USians die annually from falling out of bed. It is apparent that "bed Helmets" or at least safety belts should be required. Why don't our leaders do something to stop this carnage! -- cheers, John B. How many times will you post that? I’m tired of explaining to you about universe of discourse. What percentage of those sleeping in beds die from falling out of bed? Let me give you a hint. 300 or so million Americans sleep in beds. 450 die falling out of them. The math is not complicated. 700 or so die cycling. How many cycle? See where I’m going with this? I guess not..l AK started this sub-thread with his statement that he knew head injured cyclists, and his implication that therefore bicyclists should wear helmets. Nobody has suitably explained why that logic applies only for bicyclists, who are NOT at unusual individual risk, and who make up only a microscopic percentage of serious brain injuries nationally. So where ARE you going? Are you back to claiming that all bicyclists should wear helmets? And that nobody should post any data skeptical of helmets? Perhaps you should just let people post what they like, and read only what interests you. And perhaps you should let each person make their own choice of hat style. Or gosh, maybe even ride without hats! https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...-02_grande.jpg - Frank Krygowski Whether you are right or wrong, John posting bogus stats is still nonsense. That’s all, I’m saying. I’m sick of fake data. Sick enough to reply to you. So perhaps you should try to encourage actual science and data to support your cause. -- duane |
#24
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Bicycling specific clothing = why not?
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:50:04 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:13:10 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote: John B. wrote: On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 3:17:11 PM UTC-4, AK wrote: If he believes we should not wear a helmet while biking, I can give him names of folks permanently injured because they chose not to wear a helmet. I can give names of people who died of brain injuries - at least, that was the most likely cause of death - and who didn't wear helmets. But all the ones I personally knew were inside cars at the time. That's not unusual, given the roughly 40,000 annual motorist deaths in this country. I had one friend who used to ride a motorcycle almost identical to mine, an antique BMW. He died while wearing a helmet. I know that the number of pedestrians killed annually in the U.S., Canada, Britain, Australia (and probably more countries) greatly exceeds the number of bicyclists killed. As an example, the recent U.S. pedestrian fatality counts have been approaching 6000. (Bicyclist fatalities are about 800.) I've seen NEISS data showing that the percentage of fatalities due to brain injury are about 45% for bikes, about 40% for pedestrians. That means _lots_ more ped TBI deaths. And other data shows that the pedestrians are at more risk per mile traveled, too. And I've had friends who suffered pretty severe (as in, rush to the ER) head injuries from just walking. They each tripped and fell on their face. Another good friend just had the same thing happen, but didn't go to ER; she just dealt with the resulting facial bruises on her own. When, oh when, are we going to get helmet promotion for pedestrians and motorists? - Frank Krygowski I read somewhere that some 450 USians die annually from falling out of bed. It is apparent that "bed Helmets" or at least safety belts should be required. Why don't our leaders do something to stop this carnage! -- cheers, John B. How many times will you post that? I’m tired of explaining to you about universe of discourse. What percentage of those sleeping in beds die from falling out of bed? Let me give you a hint. 300 or so million Americans sleep in beds. 450 die falling out of them. The math is not complicated. 700 or so die cycling. How many cycle? See where I’m going with this? I guess not..l AK started this sub-thread with his statement that he knew head injured cyclists, and his implication that therefore bicyclists should wear helmets. Nobody has suitably explained why that logic applies only for bicyclists, who are NOT at unusual individual risk, and who make up only a microscopic percentage of serious brain injuries nationally. So where ARE you going? Are you back to claiming that all bicyclists should wear helmets? And that nobody should post any data skeptical of helmets? Perhaps you should just let people post what they like, and read only what interests you. And perhaps you should let each person make their own choice of hat style. Or gosh, maybe even ride without hats! https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...-02_grande.jpg - Frank Krygowski And not disparage those who choose to wear a helmet by you calling them "magic Hats". LOL Cheers It’s not like these guys are going to actually convince anyone of anything. It would be nice that those espousing scientific justification would have something to say about nonsense pseudo science. -- duane |
#25
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Bicycling specific clothing = why not?
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:50:04 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:13:10 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote: John B. wrote: On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 3:17:11 PM UTC-4, AK wrote: If he believes we should not wear a helmet while biking, I can give him names of folks permanently injured because they chose not to wear a helmet. I can give names of people who died of brain injuries - at least, that was the most likely cause of death - and who didn't wear helmets. But all the ones I personally knew were inside cars at the time. That's not unusual, given the roughly 40,000 annual motorist deaths in this country. I had one friend who used to ride a motorcycle almost identical to mine, an antique BMW. He died while wearing a helmet. I know that the number of pedestrians killed annually in the U.S., Canada, Britain, Australia (and probably more countries) greatly exceeds the number of bicyclists killed. As an example, the recent U.S. pedestrian fatality counts have been approaching 6000. (Bicyclist fatalities are about 800.) I've seen NEISS data showing that the percentage of fatalities due to brain injury are about 45% for bikes, about 40% for pedestrians. That means _lots_ more ped TBI deaths. And other data shows that the pedestrians are at more risk per mile traveled, too. And I've had friends who suffered pretty severe (as in, rush to the ER) head injuries from just walking. They each tripped and fell on their face. Another good friend just had the same thing happen, but didn't go to ER; she just dealt with the resulting facial bruises on her own. When, oh when, are we going to get helmet promotion for pedestrians and motorists? - Frank Krygowski I read somewhere that some 450 USians die annually from falling out of bed. It is apparent that "bed Helmets" or at least safety belts should be required. Why don't our leaders do something to stop this carnage! -- cheers, John B. How many times will you post that? I’m tired of explaining to you about universe of discourse. What percentage of those sleeping in beds die from falling out of bed? Let me give you a hint. 300 or so million Americans sleep in beds. 450 die falling out of them. The math is not complicated. 700 or so die cycling. How many cycle? See where I’m going with this? I guess not..l AK started this sub-thread with his statement that he knew head injured cyclists, and his implication that therefore bicyclists should wear helmets. Nobody has suitably explained why that logic applies only for bicyclists, who are NOT at unusual individual risk, and who make up only a microscopic percentage of serious brain injuries nationally. So where ARE you going? Are you back to claiming that all bicyclists should wear helmets? And that nobody should post any data skeptical of helmets? Perhaps you should just let people post what they like, and read only what interests you. And perhaps you should let each person make their own choice of hat style. Or gosh, maybe even ride without hats! https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...-02_grande.jpg - Frank Krygowski And not disparage those who choose to wear a helmet by you calling them "magic Hats". LOL Cheers There’s not much of a “rush towards the middle” on this topic (or most the stuff that gets debated repeatedly here). |
#26
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Bicycling specific clothing = why not?
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 23:13:07 +0000, Duane wrote:
John B. wrote: I read somewhere that some 450 USians die annually from falling out of bed. It is apparent that "bed Helmets" or at least safety belts should be required. Why don't our leaders do something to stop this carnage! -- cheers, John B. How many times will you post that? I’m tired of explaining to you about universe of discourse. What percentage of those sleeping in beds die from falling out of bed? Let me give you a hint. 300 or so million Americans sleep in beds. 450 die falling out of them. The math is not complicated. Do you have any age factor for this figure? Based on recent personally known "injuries from falling out of bed" both were very elderly people and the real danger was the long time until they were discvered/found and given care. 700 or so die cycling. How many cycle? See where I’m going with this? I guess not..l Yes, often the figure do not have any depth of information to arrive a woth while responses. E.g. in this country, wearing a helmet can increase chances of death from heat stroke in certain places and times. |
#27
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Bicycling specific clothing = why not?
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 01:16:27 +0000, Duane wrote:
Whether you are right or wrong, John posting bogus stats is still nonsense. That’s all, I’m saying. I’m sick of fake data. Sick enough to reply to you. So perhaps you should try to encourage actual science and data to support your cause. Then you must be starved of useful data. |
#28
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Bicycling specific clothing = why not?
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 17:13:54 -0700, Tom Kunich wrote:
For bicycling the numbers are a little vague but about a fifth of the population cycles. Finding an average time of ride would be extremely difficult since most of these are slow speed rides not more than an hour whereas you or I might ride for 8 hours on a century. You and anyone who posts on this usenet are NOT the typical bicycle rider. Reader's Digest will tell you that it is kids on basic bicycles. |
#29
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Bicycling specific clothing = why not?
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 05:46:54 +0700, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 12:17:10 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I cringe when I see motorcyclists without helmets. :-( Why? cyclists of both species rode their two wheeled devices for far more many years without helmets than with. no they crop the casualities for organ transplants. |
#30
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Bicycling specific clothing = why not?
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 03:09:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote: On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 05:46:54 +0700, John B. wrote: On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 12:17:10 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote: I cringe when I see motorcyclists without helmets. :-( Why? cyclists of both species rode their two wheeled devices for far more many years without helmets than with. no they crop the casualities for organ transplants. In the late 1800's? Remember the first "safety bicycles" were built in the 1860's and the first motorcycle seems to be around 1894. Were they doing organ transplants in those days? They certainly weren't wearing helmets. -- cheers, John B. |
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