Saw an intelligent bicyclist today

Brent P wrote:
In article C1_yj.1367$LK3.539@trndny02, Stephen Harding wrote:


if there is a long line of traffic to my right lane, I am required
to accelerate to 90 mph so the person behind me will not be in an
over-taking situation?

Will the cop that stops me understand that?

I think there is more to the law in these circumstances than you
are implying. I'll have to ask my state troop brother-in-law what
the legal situation is here in MA.


Why is your +2mph pass so damn important anyway?

It's not "important". It's just "my speed". Perhaps 67-72mph on the
Mass Pike. Sometimes 62-65mph in the right lane letting *everyone*
pass by.

I find it interesting that drivers such as yourself are all about slow is
safe and calling other drivers impaitent, etc... so it puzzles me as to
why it's so damn important to go 2mph faster than you were going before
you caught up to someone in the right lane?

"Slow" is a relative term. I've already presented *lots* of studies
that link higher speed with increased accident rates. It's real enough
to me.

But I drive a mixed agenda. I drive 138 miles each way most weekends
during the summer in my 16 mpg Dodge half ton, V-8, 4WD pickup truck
mostly on I-90, I-195 and Rt 146 (RI/MA). These are all divided
highways. I try to save a little gas, which I can do at under 65 mph,
but I also want to get to where I'm going or home again. Sometimes I
might drive close to 75mph and just accept the 15mpg penalty.

I drive with cruise control and prefer to avoid tapping it on and off.
I don't care if someone passes me (it seems some people do). I don't
attempt to regulate other's speed. They can drive themselves into a
tree if they want (hopefully not another car).

Nothing special at all.

Just wait for a big enough gap to make your pass, if one never happens,
what's the big deal for paitent adult driver who believes slower speeds
are safer and morally superior to faster ones? It's only 2mph.

I'm patient but within reason. I don't want to sit behind a semi doing
45 mph up a hill (flashers engaged) if I can pass him. That doesn't
mean cutting anyone off, but it might mean someone coming up at high
rate of speed may end up having to wait a bit.

The active, legal speed limit is the arbiter of speed to my mind. As
long as I'm doing the speed limit, no one has a right to complain I'm
going too slow. If I'm doing 55 in the left lane, that's another
issue.


SMH

Brent P? wrote:
In article GeUyj.2380$VS2.1915@trndny05, Stephen Harding wrote:
Brent P wrote:
In article XBCyj.1641$4D2.203@trndny06, Stephen Harding wrote:

Brent P wrote:

In article , wrote:


If I do that, then find I'm looking at a radar gun, will the patrolman
accept my excuse that I had to speed way up to save the tailgater a
few seconds?
When I am affraid of the revenuers I don't pass to go a couple mph
faster. You're so anti-speed anyway, why don't you just drive slower and
stay in the right lane?

First, I don't feel the need to answer to someone's impatience by
accelerating to higher speed than I want to go just so that person
astern of me won't be inconvenienced.
Typical Me, first, **** you behavior.
"I wanna go faaaster. Get outta my waaay! I'm commin through!
honkhonklight_flashlight_flash"

What class of behavior is that?

Is this sort of thing the only line you people have?

What do you get out of delaying people and refusing to keep right except
to pass? What do you get out of cutting off other drivers?

I wait until I can change lanes and pass without causing problems for
other people going faster than I. Why is it such a problem for you?

Waiting for other people is easy on a rural freeway, where one can
easily see every vehicle and the gaps are big. On an urban freeway, the
faster vehicle may not be in the left lane until the last minute, and
may be screened from view by other vehicles.

As long as I'm doing the speed limit or beyond, the guy astern will
just have to wait and all the horn blowing and flashing of lights
(and wailing and gnashing of teeth) isn't gonna get him by me any
faster. He can (and that ilk probably will) flip me off as he passes.

Me first **** you behavior on your part. You have to be an asshole, cut
in front and slow someone else down because of your own sign number
morality.

Don't make stuff up! I didn't cut in front of anyone. I'm
passing someone going slower than I was and I'm doing the speed
limit or more likely 2-5 mph better. I'm not accelerating to
minimize the "inconvenience" of knuckleheads, apparently such as
yourself, who feel speed limits don't apply to them.

Oh bull****. I haven't seen one of your crowd raise any objection to
sliding over in front of faster drivers. In fact you make it clear that
you have no concern about them by saying they can just wait. You have
made it quite clear you would see a faster driver approaching in the left
lane from the rear and then slide over and begin your plus 2mph pass
anyway. That's rude. I wait for the driver going faster than me to pass
before I begin my pass.

The plus 2 mph pass is Brent P's words, not anyone else's.

You need to stay on your own private roadway. You don't have
the understanding to actually deal with driving a public road.

Seriously, you need to lay off this bull****. I know how to deal with a
public road far better than you and the other asshats in this country who
see the highway as their passive-aggressive control freak playground.

Projecting here?

It's bad enough you asshats have ****ed up the roads in every other
nation on the planet and beat montana down, but your kind continues an
assault on Germany. what is with you control freaks anyway?[...]

Got a broader brush? Why not blame them for all the problems in the
world. Sheesh.

The Germans would not tolerate the type of driver that weaves back and
forth through traffic, changing lanes without signaling and passing on
the right. That is the typical behavior of those who go berserk because
someone is only passing the semi-truck at a 10 mph speed differential.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

In article , Tom Sherman wrote:
Brent P wrote:
In article , Tom Sherman wrote:
Brent P? wrote:
In article , Tom Sherman wrote:

I don't know where trucks actually go 55mph, but anyway... I just don't
have anyone come out of nowhere up on to my bumper when I move out to
pass. Sometimes it happens when I am cruising over to the right, but
generally those folks are doing over 100mph.

Well, the large trucks often do not move faster than that due to traffic.
Only when no one else is IME.

Well, in urban traffic the trucks generally move more slowly than the
cars, due to slow acceleration.

More slowly yes, 55mph or slower... when everyone else is. Then again I
live in an area where even the semis occasionally use the shoulder as a
passing lane.

Well, they are ignorant or badly behaved for driving slower than traffic
in the middle and/or left lanes, but that does not excuse passing them
on the right.
Excuse? Why does it have to be excused? It's not illegal and no way am I
going to give some LLB control freak the power to sit in the left lane
and force everyone else to go his chosen speed.

Illegal and wrong are two different things. Passing on the right is poor
behavior, and if the legislature had some sense in the matter, it would
be a moving violation (as would being a "left lane bandit"). Neither
behavior would be tolerated in a civilized country.

If the legislature cared about proper traffic flow it would have the keep
right except to pass law even stronger and ENFORCED at least as much as
'speeding'. Instead what you are telling me, is that when I am driving
along at my chosen speed in the right most lane, that I should brake and
slow down because I catch up to some asshat driving slower in one of the
lanes to my left? That is rather assinine and would only be endorced by
someone trying to make a usenet score or a complete passing lane blocking
control freak asshole. Which one are you?

On a three lane road, the left lane is still available to pass.

Not around here and not in the example I gave earlier. there is someone
else camping in the left lane. The typical way an expressway clogs in
chicago area is a lot of vehicles stacked up in the left and middle lane
and just a couple in the right lane. I was one of those couple in the
general area when an asshat from the middle lane decided he couldn't have
someone get by.

Do you really want to empower someone going much slower than you want to
go blocking the whole road up legally by just choosing the left lane?

No, I leave enough of a gap for people to get through on a two lane
road, or pass on the left on a three lane. Two wrongs do not make a right.

So the middle lane dufus ducklings an LLB and you refuse to pass the
middle lane dufus and then another middle lane dufus comes a long and
seals the small gap you are telling me you leave for people to cut in
front of you and pass on the right... I do find that hard to believe
since you are against passing on the right and it's not normal to invite
drivers (especially ones a person considers poorly skilled) to cut over
in front of them.


Passing on the right again?
Perfectly legal under IL law. Again why do you want to empower LLBs? Are
you one?

No, I spend as little time in the left lane as possible. But I will not
pass on the right, even if some jerk is following me at a distance of 5
feet.

So when you are cruising along minding your own buisness and come across
some asshat LLBing, blocking the left lane, or any lane to your left, you
just brake or otherwise slow down so you won't pass him? Holy crap... do
you know what sort of chaos you are part of the cause of behind you?

If people behind me are not following too closely, they will not have a
problem. I slow done well in advance, so I do not have to brake. It is
not my fault some moron is blocking traffic.

Nice... you use someone else as your excuse to bottle up traffic... why
were you driving faster than anyone to your left in the first place? to
catch up to some LLB so you could seal up the road?

Anyway it's not the initial braking that causes the chaos, it's the clump
that forms and gets real tight and people jockeying around trying to find
a way through the mess.

You're enabling the left lane blocker to create a moving road block.
Vehicles clumping up behind you.... even people going no faster than you
are getting caught in the clump. (remember, you slowed down not to pass
the LLB) No wonder you get flashed in the right lane. You're a total
asshole to people behind you. Someone who was happy to stay behind you
going the same speed you were going will get ****ed off when you find
someone in the left lane to match speeds with and block up the road. He's
going to see that move as something done on purpose and totally assholish.

Why, if they do not care about passing on the right, they can go around
me to the left and pass the offending driver on the right if they so
desire.

So you set a filter... guess what... someone is going to come up in the
middle lane and decide not to pass by moving right. Maybe the driver's an
idiot who fixates on the tail lamps in front of him... maybe he believes
like you. In either case the hole you left gets plugged. So what few
people could get through now can't.

I have seen way too many people merge right without looking to
risk passing on the right, and there is no way I would ever pass a truck
or bus in their driver's blind spot on the right.

You wouldn't get anywhere around chicago driving like that unless you
decided to move so slowly that you never caught up to ANYONE.

Nate Nagel wrote:
Stephen Harding wrote:
Stephen Harding wrote:

Ed Pirrero wrote:

You expect everyone else to change *their* speed for you, but find it
exceedingly rude for them to want you to change your speed for them.

The inherent contradiction in your position *should* make your head
explode.

LOL. You MFFYs are the dumbest folks on the planet.


*I'M DOING THE DAMN SPEED LIMIT OR ABOVE BRENT!!*


Sorry. All you characters are beginning to merge into one
driver madly flashing their headlights, doing 90 mph and
thinking they don't really need to abide by speed limits
or traffic stops.

I guess it's an instance of "Ed" rather than "Brent".

Not at all. We're just sick of being stuck in the passing lane behind
some old guy in a Buick doing 64 "passing" some other old guy in a Buick
doing 63.9999998.

The VAST majority of LLBs aren't even passing anyone, they're either
just camping out in the left lane for no apparent reason, or even worse,
pacing the car next to them not either in front of or far enough behind
to slip through without some really squidly driving.

That said, I can understand your frustration, but put yourself in the
seat of the guy behind you. He's *expecting* you to do actively hold
him up, because you're driving slow (relatively) in the passing lane and
that's the behavior he's come to expect from other motorists. If you
pass promtply and move over quickly, he'll be pleasantly surprised and
might even acknowledge your courtesy with a wave as he passes. If you
actively block him, you're just another of the rude and/or clueless
masses that make everyday driving unpleasant.

Do you believe that a 10 to 15 mph speed differential is
"micro-passing"? I have had people close up and turn on their high beams
when I was passing in that speed differential range.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

In article , Tom Sherman wrote:

Passing on the right 'equally bad'? Drive much in the USA?

Yes, and what other industrialized country has as badly trained drivers
as the US?

The point is, if you don't pass on the right you aren't going to get very
far at anything close to average interstate speeds.

Should I drive off onto the left-hand shoulder or into the median
to let the person behind by, so he/she can tailgate the slow person in
the left lane?

You can start by trying to wake up the asshole in front of you with your
car's flash-to-pass feature.

That usually gets no reaction - they probably think you are doing the
"cop ahead" signal.

So you don't even try....

Considering that you apparently don't find LLBing assholish

Apparently Brent P comprehends incorrectly.

Let's see, you enable LLB's, you refuse to do anything to wake them up,
and you're willing to match their speed until they exit, you exit or the
heat death of the universe (as nate would say).

and aren't
willing to pass said LLBs on the right, I can only conclude you are a
passive aggressive asshole who wishes to bottle up the road and control
everyone else's speed. The LLB and a little twisted logic about the
horrors of 'passing on the right' and in your own mind you are able to
accomplish the goal of controling the speed of the road and not see
yourself as the asshole.

Can I have some of whatever you are smoking?

You're the one posting nonsense. If you're so willing to stay behind
asshole drivers blocking the passing lane you must be getting something
out of it. Why bother driving fast enough to catch up to anyone at all if
you're not going to pass? In the chicago area I encounter the first LLB
or middle lane camper usually as I come down the ramp.... I couldn't even
merge on to the expressway if I couldn't 'pass on the right'.

wrote:
On Mar 3, 4:18 pm, Stephen Harding wrote:

Would you please provide me a cite where not giving way to someone
flashing their headlights at you is illegal. I don't think that is
the case in MA.

Brent already gave you an example of signal to pass, although in that
instance the signal mentioned is an audible signal.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...1e7e002dd1e61c
for reference. That was in this thread. There are other references
of states laws requiring drivers to yield to other vehicles that have
indicated intent to pass. They vary on audible (horn) or visual
(flash-to-pass). I consider a flash more polite than a horn.

Yes I saw the example after posting. I still am interested in
context.

I also would consider a light flash more polite than a horn.

But I also believe it's just unnecessary. A light flash should
only be necessary when a single car is blocking a passing lane
by not making progress against a vehicle being passed, or if
the vehicle is all by itself in the left lane.

Any other condition such as a line of cars passing and/or a line
of vehicles being passed (where no easy return to right lane is
possible without cutting someone off) should be obvious enough
to a motorist that flashing of lights is pointless.

Here in MA, people park themselves in the passing lane. People go
quite fast as well. There may never be time to provide someone
who is well above the speed limit enough time. Most of the time
(on busy highways like the Mass Pike), I'm not the only one blocking
the passing lane for the clod. There's a line of cars ahead of me
that's he's going to have to flash his way through. All of them
actually passing other cars.

I was born and raised in MA. I still work there. You're suggesting
all the cars in the left lane are passing other cars? IME, especially
in MA, the left lane is rarely the fastest lane.

Do you drive the Mass Pike? If so, where abouts? Driving I-90 out
in the Berkshires isn't the same as driving the Pike in Worcester
or Framingham. You surely know that.

I agree that at times, the left lane indeed is not moving as fast
as other lanes, but mostly that is not the case.

On the Pike, they're parking themselves in the left lane and moving
as fast as they can appears to be de rigeur.

But then, MA drivers as a group are not exactly noted for good driving
technique.


SMH

Tom Sherman wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:

Stephen Harding wrote:

Stephen Harding wrote:

Ed Pirrero wrote:

You expect everyone else to change *their* speed for you, but find it
exceedingly rude for them to want you to change your speed for them.

The inherent contradiction in your position *should* make your head
explode.

LOL. You MFFYs are the dumbest folks on the planet.



*I'M DOING THE DAMN SPEED LIMIT OR ABOVE BRENT!!*



Sorry. All you characters are beginning to merge into one
driver madly flashing their headlights, doing 90 mph and
thinking they don't really need to abide by speed limits
or traffic stops.

I guess it's an instance of "Ed" rather than "Brent".


Not at all. We're just sick of being stuck in the passing lane behind
some old guy in a Buick doing 64 "passing" some other old guy in a
Buick doing 63.9999998.

The VAST majority of LLBs aren't even passing anyone, they're either
just camping out in the left lane for no apparent reason, or even
worse, pacing the car next to them not either in front of or far
enough behind to slip through without some really squidly driving.

That said, I can understand your frustration, but put yourself in the
seat of the guy behind you. He's *expecting* you to do actively hold
him up, because you're driving slow (relatively) in the passing lane
and that's the behavior he's come to expect from other motorists. If
you pass promtply and move over quickly, he'll be pleasantly surprised
and might even acknowledge your courtesy with a wave as he passes. If
you actively block him, you're just another of the rude and/or
clueless masses that make everyday driving unpleasant.

Do you believe that a 10 to 15 mph speed differential is
"micro-passing"? I have had people close up and turn on their high beams
when I was passing in that speed differential range.


I can honestly say that I've never had that happen to me, and like I
said, the metro DC area is the home of the worst drivers I've ever had
the misfortune of encountering. I've also lived in Michigan where even
the 70 MPH speed limits are merely a suggestion. (although lane
discipline in MI is refreshingly good, in comparison) So I have to ask,
are you sure you're really going 10 MPH faster? This would imply that
you'd be passing a truck with a 53 foot trailer - say total length 70
feet? at a guess? - in roughly 5 seconds or so, which isn't
unreasonable IMO. If so, where the heck are you?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

wrote:
On Mar 3, 4:31 pm, Stephen Harding wrote:

wrote:

On Mar 3, 11:36 am, wrote:

On Mar 2, 6:26 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

I feel more at risk of having my car dented by my local cyclists than I
do by other motorists, and that's saying a lot because the drivers
around here suck.

That statement is proof of the extreme fantasies a motorhead will
indulge in! It's absolutely ludicrous!

If you can prove me wrong, do it. Give me data about, say, the volume
of body shop work caused by bicyclists, versus caused by motorists.

- Frank Krygowski

That wouldn't be a fair way of measuring. Much of the damage done to
cars by bikes is of the hit & run variety. It could be they kicked
the car and split, they just refused to exchange info, or a million
other circumstances. When your car is damaged by another car there is
usually insurance involved, accident reports filed, etc. If you hit
my *truck* (just playing with you Frank) with your car and damage a
panel, there's a fairly good chance I'll use some or all of the
insurance money to repair the truck. If a bicycle hits my truck, the
only way for it to be repaired on the offender's dime is if they stop
and give me their info willingly, if they're so injured they need
medical attention, or an officer happens to witness it and apprehend
the cyclist. Two of those three circumstances seem quite unlikely.
The exception, the cyclist being so injured they need medical
attention, is likely to somehow cause me a bunch of headache even if
they were at fault.

So do you believe this situation is so pervasive, that bicycle
damage to cars actually does exceed that from other motor vehicles?


No, I believe the "data" frank requested to "prove" him wrong was
blatantly biased, unfair, and not a quality example. I believe that's
what I typed. Where did you see the suggestion that I believe
bicycle to car damage exceeds car to car damage?

The apparent implication that all the hit and run bicyclist damage
might be greater than damage to cars than by other cars.

The hit-and-run bicycle scenario seemed a stretch.


SMH

Brent P? wrote:
In article , Tom Sherman wrote:

Passing on the right 'equally bad'? Drive much in the USA?

Yes, and what other industrialized country has as badly trained drivers
as the US?

The point is, if you don't pass on the right you aren't going to get very
far at anything close to average interstate speeds.

Somehow, I almost always find a way to pass on the left. On a three lane
road, there is almost always a way to get around a slow vehicle in the
middle lane.

Should I drive off onto the left-hand shoulder or into the median
to let the person behind by, so he/she can tailgate the slow person in
the left lane?

You can start by trying to wake up the asshole in front of you with your
car's flash-to-pass feature.

That usually gets no reaction - they probably think you are doing the
"cop ahead" signal.

So you don't even try....

Usually someone else will come along and give them the message. I am not
in such a hurry that a few seconds will make any real difference.

Considering that you apparently don't find LLBing assholish

Apparently Brent P comprehends incorrectly.

Let's see, you enable LLB's, you refuse to do anything to wake them up,
and you're willing to match their speed until they exit, you exit or the
heat death of the universe (as nate would say).

and aren't
willing to pass said LLBs on the right, I can only conclude you are a
passive aggressive asshole who wishes to bottle up the road and control
everyone else's speed. The LLB and a little twisted logic about the
horrors of 'passing on the right' and in your own mind you are able to
accomplish the goal of controling the speed of the road and not see
yourself as the asshole.

Can I have some of whatever you are smoking?

You're the one posting nonsense. If you're so willing to stay behind
asshole drivers blocking the passing lane you must be getting something
out of it. Why bother driving fast enough to catch up to anyone at all if
you're not going to pass? In the chicago area I encounter the first LLB
or middle lane camper usually as I come down the ramp.... I couldn't even
merge on to the expressway if I couldn't 'pass on the right'.

How does merging involve passing anyone once past the solid white line?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

wrote:

Didn't you say you lived in MA? Noone but "Mr Speeders" (are we in
kindergarten?) are parked in the passing lane? Please. To speed
excessively in MA during times of traffic you need to bob & weave.
There is consistently 65-70MPH traffic parked in the left lane.

I think I'd put it higher than that.

My MA state trooper bother-in-law has told me you need to go
75mph or better to get pulled over on the Pike.

I think everyone pretty much knows that so the de facto speed
limit on the Mass Pike is 75mph.


SMH