Felt F55X

On 3/14/2021 1:20 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 3/14/2021 12:25 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/14/2021 3:52 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 12:43:09 PM UTC-8,
wrote:
Op zaterdag 13 maart 2021 om 16:33:17 UTC+1 schreef
Frank Krygowski:

In Tom's defense, gravel races may be getting more
common, but any
sample of "gravel bike" owners will only rarely find
one who races.
Most gravel bike owners want to ride in places away from
the crowded
roads on a bike they think is most suitable. I'm one of
them. I only race against myself.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aLmyAeaudT2zXKqu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sCD6v8qUXQAtP6xk6

Photo's taken two weeks apart (Febr.12 and febr 26).
Lou, That is rather beautiful landscape and the reason
that gravel bikes
are becoming so popular.


Very much this, it Gravel bike allows me to link together old
airports/forgotten roads framers tacks etc.

I can still tacked roads if I want to, but it’s a choice.

As usual, I'm bemused by the ever changing fashions.

Just a few years ago, people posting here arguing with my
contention that close clearance frames had no practical
benefit. And I was derided for helping a friend shop for a
bike and rejecting bikes that wouldn't take a 28mm tire.

I have no problem with people wanting to ride gravel,
although I don't have much respect for driving 20 miles to
ride five miles on a gravel road. But I'm amazed at how
quickly people are convinced to change their tastes.

Fashion and marketing: Weird and powerful!


Why play a musical instrument when you can just turn on the
radio? Odd fashion as well.


Because the people on the radio play musical instruments better than I do?
On the other hand, I don’t watch the TDF or pro cycling because I’d rather
go out and ride instead of watching other people do it.


My point was only that people like what they like because
they like it and that's reason enough.

p.s. Frank:
To denigrate other people's choices as 'odd fashion' -
whether riding bicycles in dirt rather than streets, or on
streets rather than roads, or on hardwood board tracks
rather than on a paved winding path in a park - is to
discount the value of individual choice. You don't know
other people's reasoning for any choice. Often a man doesn't
understand the reasoning behind his own choices, but it's
his nonetheless.

p.s. Ralph:
I'm in favor of riding bicycles. Good for you. I'm also in
favor of following[1] the great classics. Many of us do both!

[1]I can't watch much video of anything including Le Tour so
I get it if that's what you meant. I like the daily recap
from RFI in text better. YMMV.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Op zondag 14 maart 2021 om 22:24:53 UTC+1 schreef AMuzi:

p.s. Ralph:
I'm in favor of riding bicycles. Good for you. I'm also in
favor of following[1] the great classics. Many of us do both!

After todays ride I watched the live coverage of todays stage of Tirreno Adriatico (last 60 km) this afternoon. Wow..... and last stage of Paris Nice...(last 25 km). Wow...again.

[1]I can't watch much video of anything including Le Tour so
I get it if that's what you meant. I like the daily recap
from RFI in text better. YMMV.

Lucky me. We have live coverage of every race with competent comments of the Belgium reporters.

Lou

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 10:42:26 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 10:25:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/14/2021 3:52 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 12:43:09 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Op zaterdag 13 maart 2021 om 16:33:17 UTC+1 schreef Frank Krygowski:

In Tom's defense, gravel races may be getting more common, but any
sample of "gravel bike" owners will only rarely find one who races.
Most gravel bike owners want to ride in places away from the crowded
roads on a bike they think is most suitable. I'm one of them. I only race against myself.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aLmyAeaudT2zXKqu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sCD6v8qUXQAtP6xk6

Photo's taken two weeks apart (Febr.12 and febr 26).
Lou, That is rather beautiful landscape and the reason that gravel bikes
are becoming so popular.


Very much this, it Gravel bike allows me to link together old
airports/forgotten roads framers tacks etc.

I can still tacked roads if I want to, but it’s a choice.
As usual, I'm bemused by the ever changing fashions.

Just a few years ago, people posting here arguing with my contention
that close clearance frames had no practical benefit. And I was derided
for helping a friend shop for a bike and rejecting bikes that wouldn't
take a 28mm tire.

I have no problem with people wanting to ride gravel, although I don't
have much respect for driving 20 miles to ride five miles on a gravel
road. But I'm amazed at how quickly people are convinced to change their
tastes.

Fashion and marketing: Weird and powerful!

Frank, as usual you speak of things you have little understanding of. What about riding 5 miles to do a very hilly and difficult 30 miles followed by a 600 foot climb on the road as part of the 4 mile ride home? What about 2 miles on the road to a 40 or 50 mile ride or more rife on a flat gravel road. have very little respect for people that have never been out of their own backyard.

Lets see... 5 miles out and 4 miles home....

Yup Tommy, you really are a wonder!
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 6:59:37 p.m. UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 10:42:26 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 10:25:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/14/2021 3:52 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 12:43:09 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Op zaterdag 13 maart 2021 om 16:33:17 UTC+1 schreef Frank Krygowski:

In Tom's defense, gravel races may be getting more common, but any
sample of "gravel bike" owners will only rarely find one who races.
Most gravel bike owners want to ride in places away from the crowded
roads on a bike they think is most suitable. I'm one of them. I only race against myself.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aLmyAeaudT2zXKqu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sCD6v8qUXQAtP6xk6

Photo's taken two weeks apart (Febr.12 and febr 26).
Lou, That is rather beautiful landscape and the reason that gravel bikes
are becoming so popular.


Very much this, it Gravel bike allows me to link together old
airports/forgotten roads framers tacks etc.

I can still tacked roads if I want to, but it’s a choice.
As usual, I'm bemused by the ever changing fashions.

Just a few years ago, people posting here arguing with my contention
that close clearance frames had no practical benefit. And I was derided
for helping a friend shop for a bike and rejecting bikes that wouldn't
take a 28mm tire.

I have no problem with people wanting to ride gravel, although I don't
have much respect for driving 20 miles to ride five miles on a gravel
road. But I'm amazed at how quickly people are convinced to change their
tastes.

Fashion and marketing: Weird and powerful!

Frank, as usual you speak of things you have little understanding of. What about riding 5 miles to do a very hilly and difficult 30 miles followed by a 600 foot climb on the road as part of the 4 mile ride home? What about 2 miles on the road to a 40 or 50 mile ride or more rife on a flat gravel road. have very little respect for people that have never been out of their own backyard.
Lets see... 5 miles out and 4 miles home....

Yup Tommy, you really are a wonder!
--
Cheers,

John B.

You forgot to add the "very hilly and difficult 30 miles". 39 miles instead of 9 but one person's very difficult ride can be another person's warmup ride.

Cheers

On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 5:16:38 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/14/2021 3:52 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 12:43:09 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Op zaterdag 13 maart 2021 om 16:33:17 UTC+1 schreef Frank Krygowski:

In Tom's defense, gravel races may be getting more common, but any
sample of "gravel bike" owners will only rarely find one who races.
Most gravel bike owners want to ride in places away from the crowded
roads on a bike they think is most suitable. I'm one of them. I only
race against myself.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aLmyAeaudT2zXKqu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sCD6v8qUXQAtP6xk6

Photo's taken two weeks apart (Febr.12 and febr 26).
Lou, That is rather beautiful landscape and the reason that gravel bikes
are becoming so popular.


Very much this, it Gravel bike allows me to link together old
airports/forgotten roads framers tacks etc.

I can still tacked roads if I want to, but it’s a choice.

As usual, I'm bemused by the ever changing fashions.

Just a few years ago, people posting here arguing with my contention
that close clearance frames had no practical benefit. And I was derided
for helping a friend shop for a bike and rejecting bikes that wouldn't
take a 28mm tire.

I have no problem with people wanting to ride gravel, although I don't
have much respect for driving 20 miles to ride five miles on a gravel
road. But I'm amazed at how quickly people are convinced to change their
tastes.
My assumption, and knowledge is that most gravel rides tend to start from
home, that’s one of the good things about such bikes, they are fine in most
places, from mild MTB trails to big days in the hills.

With the MTB yes you might well take it somewhere but not the Gravel on the
whole.

Fashion and marketing: Weird and powerful!

Gravel bikes that I can see have grown out of CX bikes, a number of them
few years back where aimed at hacking around the woods and so on, rather
than racing around a muddy park.

Plus the rim to disks so larger tires plus decent brakes this feels rider
lead than manufacturers.

The only place I see MTB's excelling from my cross/gravel bikes is descending speeds. The trails are very often rain rutted over a good deal of the roads with only the flat roads used to maintain the parks paved with gravel which is pounded into the soft ground by constant use. This makes the trails pretty nice for the most part. But coming down the 600 foot peak can have areas of 20% that are badly rutted. You can ride right over these things with suspension but on a cross bike you have to almost crawl to avoid being thrown off. Much of the San Francisco bay trails is gravel roads on the eastern side of the bay since it was originally commercial land for things like the salt ponds owned by Leslie Salt Company. Of course it was declared an ecological disaster by people that don't know there ass from a hole in the ground and with the closing of these ponds at least a dozen species of aquatic birds were driven into extinction and most of the California Seagulls are no longer in the bay.

Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 5:16:38 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/14/2021 3:52 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 12:43:09 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Op zaterdag 13 maart 2021 om 16:33:17 UTC+1 schreef Frank Krygowski:

In Tom's defense, gravel races may be getting more common, but any
sample of "gravel bike" owners will only rarely find one who races.
Most gravel bike owners want to ride in places away from the crowded
roads on a bike they think is most suitable. I'm one of them. I only
race against myself.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aLmyAeaudT2zXKqu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sCD6v8qUXQAtP6xk6

Photo's taken two weeks apart (Febr.12 and febr 26).
Lou, That is rather beautiful landscape and the reason that gravel bikes
are becoming so popular.


Very much this, it Gravel bike allows me to link together old
airports/forgotten roads framers tacks etc.

I can still tacked roads if I want to, but it’s a choice.

As usual, I'm bemused by the ever changing fashions.

Just a few years ago, people posting here arguing with my contention
that close clearance frames had no practical benefit. And I was derided
for helping a friend shop for a bike and rejecting bikes that wouldn't
take a 28mm tire.

I have no problem with people wanting to ride gravel, although I don't
have much respect for driving 20 miles to ride five miles on a gravel
road. But I'm amazed at how quickly people are convinced to change their
tastes.
My assumption, and knowledge is that most gravel rides tend to start from
home, that’s one of the good things about such bikes, they are fine in most
places, from mild MTB trails to big days in the hills.

With the MTB yes you might well take it somewhere but not the Gravel on the
whole.

Fashion and marketing: Weird and powerful!

Gravel bikes that I can see have grown out of CX bikes, a number of them
few years back where aimed at hacking around the woods and so on, rather
than racing around a muddy park.

Plus the rim to disks so larger tires plus decent brakes this feels rider
lead than manufacturers.

The only place I see MTB's excelling from my cross/gravel bikes is
descending speeds. The trails are very often rain rutted over a good deal
of the roads with only the flat roads used to maintain the parks paved
with gravel which is pounded into the soft ground by constant use. This
makes the trails pretty nice for the most part. But coming down the 600
foot peak can have areas of 20% that are badly rutted. You can ride right
over these things with suspension but on a cross bike you have to almost
crawl to avoid being thrown off. Much of the San Francisco bay trails is
gravel roads on the eastern side of the bay since it was originally
commercial land for things like the salt ponds owned by Leslie Salt
Company. Of course it was declared an ecological disaster by people that
don't know there ass from a hole in the ground and with the closing of
these ponds at least a dozen species of aquatic birds were driven into
extinction and most of the California Seagulls are no longer in the bay.


The point at which is faster/more fun is a bit of a moveable feast after
all Gravel bikes go from CX ish to Monster cross ish, clearly rider skill
is also a variable as well.

I find the Gravel bike is better on the drier smoother stuff, and really
dislikes rocky stuff, it has a narrower range during the winter as it
doesn’t cope with the slop.

Clearly rooty Rocky descents are where MTB shines, but less obviously
technical climbs which is one of my favourite pastimes! Which are much more
clearable on MTB as squishy tires and suspension don’t stall on said
rocks/roots as easily.

Roger Merriman

On Monday, March 15, 2021 at 10:35:07 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 5:16:38 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/14/2021 3:52 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 12:43:09 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Op zaterdag 13 maart 2021 om 16:33:17 UTC+1 schreef Frank Krygowski:

In Tom's defense, gravel races may be getting more common, but any
sample of "gravel bike" owners will only rarely find one who races.
Most gravel bike owners want to ride in places away from the crowded
roads on a bike they think is most suitable. I'm one of them. I only
race against myself.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aLmyAeaudT2zXKqu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sCD6v8qUXQAtP6xk6

Photo's taken two weeks apart (Febr.12 and febr 26).
Lou, That is rather beautiful landscape and the reason that gravel bikes
are becoming so popular.


Very much this, it Gravel bike allows me to link together old
airports/forgotten roads framers tacks etc.

I can still tacked roads if I want to, but it’s a choice.

As usual, I'm bemused by the ever changing fashions.

Just a few years ago, people posting here arguing with my contention
that close clearance frames had no practical benefit. And I was derided
for helping a friend shop for a bike and rejecting bikes that wouldn't
take a 28mm tire.

I have no problem with people wanting to ride gravel, although I don't
have much respect for driving 20 miles to ride five miles on a gravel
road. But I'm amazed at how quickly people are convinced to change their
tastes.
My assumption, and knowledge is that most gravel rides tend to start from
home, that’s one of the good things about such bikes, they are fine in most
places, from mild MTB trails to big days in the hills.

With the MTB yes you might well take it somewhere but not the Gravel on the
whole.

Fashion and marketing: Weird and powerful!

Gravel bikes that I can see have grown out of CX bikes, a number of them
few years back where aimed at hacking around the woods and so on, rather
than racing around a muddy park.

Plus the rim to disks so larger tires plus decent brakes this feels rider
lead than manufacturers.

The only place I see MTB's excelling from my cross/gravel bikes is
descending speeds. The trails are very often rain rutted over a good deal
of the roads with only the flat roads used to maintain the parks paved
with gravel which is pounded into the soft ground by constant use. This
makes the trails pretty nice for the most part. But coming down the 600
foot peak can have areas of 20% that are badly rutted. You can ride right
over these things with suspension but on a cross bike you have to almost
crawl to avoid being thrown off. Much of the San Francisco bay trails is
gravel roads on the eastern side of the bay since it was originally
commercial land for things like the salt ponds owned by Leslie Salt
Company. Of course it was declared an ecological disaster by people that
don't know there ass from a hole in the ground and with the closing of
these ponds at least a dozen species of aquatic birds were driven into
extinction and most of the California Seagulls are no longer in the bay..

The point at which is faster/more fun is a bit of a moveable feast after
all Gravel bikes go from CX ish to Monster cross ish, clearly rider skill
is also a variable as well.

I find the Gravel bike is better on the drier smoother stuff, and really
dislikes rocky stuff, it has a narrower range during the winter as it
doesn’t cope with the slop.

Clearly rooty Rocky descents are where MTB shines, but less obviously
technical climbs which is one of my favourite pastimes! Which are much more
clearable on MTB as squishy tires and suspension don’t stall on said
rocks/roots as easily.

Roger Merriman
There was this particular climb along one route. I could NEVER make it up on a CX bike. I could hit it and come 10 feet from the top where the wheels would just spin. I got really good at stepping off of the bike at that point and pushing the bike up the rest of the way. That Trek HiFi I had would go right up it since you could stand up on the pedals and the front end would stay on the ground and the rear tires on that 29er would stick. Can't say the same for my heart rate on that bit. I always had to stop and allow my heart rate to fall back down to something acceptable. There were some pretty nasty places on that route but none of the rest of them did that to me. The rest of that course was more suited to a CX bike than the MTB since you could carry a lot more speed on that much lighter bike.

Op maandag 15 maart 2021 om 01:16:38 UTC+1 schreef Roger Merriman:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/14/2021 3:52 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 12:43:09 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Op zaterdag 13 maart 2021 om 16:33:17 UTC+1 schreef Frank Krygowski:

In Tom's defense, gravel races may be getting more common, but any
sample of "gravel bike" owners will only rarely find one who races.
Most gravel bike owners want to ride in places away from the crowded
roads on a bike they think is most suitable. I'm one of them. I only
race against myself.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aLmyAeaudT2zXKqu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sCD6v8qUXQAtP6xk6

Photo's taken two weeks apart (Febr.12 and febr 26).
Lou, That is rather beautiful landscape and the reason that gravel bikes
are becoming so popular.


Very much this, it Gravel bike allows me to link together old
airports/forgotten roads framers tacks etc.

I can still tacked roads if I want to, but it’s a choice.

As usual, I'm bemused by the ever changing fashions.

Just a few years ago, people posting here arguing with my contention
that close clearance frames had no practical benefit. And I was derided
for helping a friend shop for a bike and rejecting bikes that wouldn't
take a 28mm tire.

I have no problem with people wanting to ride gravel, although I don't
have much respect for driving 20 miles to ride five miles on a gravel
road. But I'm amazed at how quickly people are convinced to change their
tastes.
My assumption, and knowledge is that most gravel rides tend to start from
home, that’s one of the good things about such bikes, they are fine in most
places, from mild MTB trails to big days in the hills.

With the MTB yes you might well take it somewhere but not the Gravel on the
whole.

Fashion and marketing: Weird and powerful!

Gravel bikes that I can see have grown out of CX bikes, a number of them
few years back where aimed at hacking around the woods and so on, rather
than racing around a muddy park.

Plus the rim to disks so larger tires plus decent brakes this feels rider
lead than manufacturers.

Roger Merriman

The way I see it is that there was always the need/desire to ride off road. In the old days we did that on a road bike with its limitations. Then we got the ATB that developed into something complicated (front and rear shocks with lock out, dropper post, adaptive damping and whatever) and for many people way over 'qualified' for the off road riding they desire. You could use a cross bike, but cross bikes at that time were race orientated with the UCI limitations (tire width and ****ty brakes). It got interesting when hydraulic disk brakes became available on cross bikes. That was the time they became popular again here and many people switch from a ATB back to a cross bike, fed up with the heavy and complicated ATB that was meanwhile meant to ride on 'epic' tracks and gnarly trails but never were used on that terrain. When I got my cross bike 8 years ago I hardly used my ATB's again and eventually sold them both (hardtail and FS). The cross bike evolved into the current gravel bike and the cross bike back became race oriented again.

Lou

Lou Holtman wrote:
Op maandag 15 maart 2021 om 01:16:38 UTC+1 schreef Roger Merriman:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/14/2021 3:52 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 12:43:09 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Op zaterdag 13 maart 2021 om 16:33:17 UTC+1 schreef Frank Krygowski:

In Tom's defense, gravel races may be getting more common, but any
sample of "gravel bike" owners will only rarely find one who races.
Most gravel bike owners want to ride in places away from the crowded
roads on a bike they think is most suitable. I'm one of them. I only
race against myself.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aLmyAeaudT2zXKqu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sCD6v8qUXQAtP6xk6

Photo's taken two weeks apart (Febr.12 and febr 26).
Lou, That is rather beautiful landscape and the reason that gravel bikes
are becoming so popular.


Very much this, it Gravel bike allows me to link together old
airports/forgotten roads framers tacks etc.

I can still tacked roads if I want to, but it’s a choice.

As usual, I'm bemused by the ever changing fashions.

Just a few years ago, people posting here arguing with my contention
that close clearance frames had no practical benefit. And I was derided
for helping a friend shop for a bike and rejecting bikes that wouldn't
take a 28mm tire.

I have no problem with people wanting to ride gravel, although I don't
have much respect for driving 20 miles to ride five miles on a gravel
road. But I'm amazed at how quickly people are convinced to change their
tastes.
My assumption, and knowledge is that most gravel rides tend to start from
home, that’s one of the good things about such bikes, they are fine in most
places, from mild MTB trails to big days in the hills.

With the MTB yes you might well take it somewhere but not the Gravel on the
whole.

Fashion and marketing: Weird and powerful!

Gravel bikes that I can see have grown out of CX bikes, a number of them
few years back where aimed at hacking around the woods and so on, rather
than racing around a muddy park.

Plus the rim to disks so larger tires plus decent brakes this feels rider
lead than manufacturers.

Roger Merriman

The way I see it is that there was always the need/desire to ride off
road. In the old days we did that on a road bike with its limitations.
Then we got the ATB that developed into something complicated (front and
rear shocks with lock out, dropper post, adaptive damping and whatever)
and for many people way over 'qualified' for the off road riding they
desire. You could use a cross bike, but cross bikes at that time were
race orientated with the UCI limitations (tire width and ****ty brakes).
It got interesting when hydraulic disk brakes became available on cross
bikes. That was the time they became popular again here and many people
switch from a ATB back to a cross bike, fed up with the heavy and
complicated ATB that was meanwhile meant to ride on 'epic' tracks and
gnarly trails but never were used on that terrain. When I got my cross
bike 8 years ago I hardly used my ATB's again and eventually sold them
both (hardtail and FS). The cross bike evolved into the current gravel
bike and the cross bike back became race oriented again.

Lou

I keep the MTB for “big days out� when I’m rested and such. As it’s a
hugely capable machine.

But the gravel is much more flexible in that it’s fine on tarmac and park
paths etc, and I can go for a wee spin it doesn’t need to be a big day out.

I do also like that it does remind me of the MTB’s that I started on,
though it’s a far more capable machine to be honest!

Roger Merriman

On 3/15/2021 6:50 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Op maandag 15 maart 2021 om 01:16:38 UTC+1 schreef Roger Merriman:

Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 3/14/2021 3:52 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 12:43:09 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Op zaterdag 13 maart 2021 om 16:33:17 UTC+1 schreef Frank Krygowski:

In Tom's defense, gravel races may be getting more common, but any
sample of "gravel bike" owners will only rarely find one who races.
Most gravel bike owners want to ride in places away from the crowded
roads on a bike they think is most suitable. I'm one of them. I only
race against myself.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aLmyAeaudT2zXKqu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sCD6v8qUXQAtP6xk6

Photo's taken two weeks apart (Febr.12 and febr 26).
Lou, That is rather beautiful landscape and the reason that gravel bikes
are becoming so popular.


Very much this, it Gravel bike allows me to link together old
airports/forgotten roads framers tacks etc.

I can still tacked roads if I want to, but it’s a choice.

As usual, I'm bemused by the ever changing fashions.

Just a few years ago, people posting here arguing with my contention
that close clearance frames had no practical benefit. And I was derided
for helping a friend shop for a bike and rejecting bikes that wouldn't
take a 28mm tire.

I have no problem with people wanting to ride gravel, although I don't
have much respect for driving 20 miles to ride five miles on a gravel
road. But I'm amazed at how quickly people are convinced to change their
tastes.

My assumption, and knowledge is that most gravel rides tend to start from
home, that’s one of the good things about such bikes, they are fine in most
places, from mild MTB trails to big days in the hills.

With the MTB yes you might well take it somewhere but not the Gravel on the
whole.


Fashion and marketing: Weird and powerful!


Gravel bikes that I can see have grown out of CX bikes, a number of them
few years back where aimed at hacking around the woods and so on, rather
than racing around a muddy park.

Plus the rim to disks so larger tires plus decent brakes this feels rider
lead than manufacturers.

Roger Merriman


The way I see it is that there was always the need/desire to ride off road. In the old days we did that on a road bike with its limitations. Then we got the ATB that developed into something complicated (front and rear shocks with lock out, dropper post, adaptive damping and whatever) and for many people way over 'qualified' for the off road riding they desire. You could use a cross bike, but cross bikes at that time were race orientated with the UCI limitations (tire width and ****ty brakes). It got interesting when hydraulic disk brakes became available on cross bikes. That was the time they became popular again here and many people switch from a ATB back to a cross bike, fed up with the heavy and complicated ATB that was meanwhile meant to ride on 'epic' tracks and gnarly trails but never were used on that terrain. When I got my cross bike 8 years ago I hardly used my ATB's again and eventually sold them both (hardtail and FS). The cross bike evolved into the current gravel bike and the cross bike back became race oriented again.


As I understand it, Sir Ridesalot uses older rigid frame mountain bikes,
somewhat modified to adapt them for off-road touring. I think a version
of those bikes could still be a very good choice for lots of people
doing non-gonzo riding off-road, even though they're not fashionable.

--
- Frank Krygowski