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#41
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I am that out of date
Am Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:00:44 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
: On 4/21/2021 4:10 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote: Am Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:05:34 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski : On 4/21/2021 5:34 AM, wrote: On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 4:09:58 AM UTC-5, Tosspot wrote: On 17/04/2021 17:53, Ralph Barone wrote: Don’t forget the chromed steel rims. Nobody appears to be lamenting the demise of chromed steel rims. In the ****ed up world of retro bikes I have seen a few at work with chromed steel rims. Now those don't get ridden in the rain or I wouldn't be seeing them! O RLY? From 1992 to 1995 I rode my Sparta Cornwall bike to work, every single working day, around the year. https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/bild12a.jpg Indeed, these are chromed steel rims. Any idea why there wasn't any problem with that, huh? Sorry about the picture quality, that picture was taken using an Apple QickTake camera, in 1995. Imho, the two biggest advancements to modern cycling, the alloy rim and bike lights. Hand up who remembers cycling home in the dark on a rainy night? NiCads suck. Sure. So do lead/acid batteries, for example that gray piece marked "friwo" in the picture linked below. https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/licht/lichtc1.jpg/image_preview Or bottle dynamos, like that one. It sucked. https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/licht/P1050501a.JPG/view.html But somehow, most of this stuff worked good enough to server my well for many years. A few expensive parts did not. For example that one: https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/such/DSC04651.jpg. Do you know what it is? I'm not sure how far back "modern" cycling goes, but I would add gearing to the biggest advancement category. Front and rear derailleurs and a means to shift into the various rear cogs and/or chainrings. I agree. I've read old tales of touring with three or four speed hub gears. Walking up any significant climb was standard procedure. People still do that nowadays. Bicycles got lighter with alloy components, rims, frames, handlebar, this made it easier to push. I cycled to school on a heavy Rabeneick bicycle, using a 3 speed hub (Fichtel&Sachs Torpedo). Riding home (6%, about 120 m up) wasn't easy. But pushing that bike would have been even more strenous. Before derailleur gearing, I think pneumatic tires were the biggest advancement. What about better brakes? Since derailleur gearing I think we've been chasing ever tinier marginal improvements. Sure. But some of those marginal improvements are nice, nevertheless. The most modern "improvements" are very underwhelming. We're now down to "Ooh, I don't have to move my finger as far to get a gear change! And it cost me only a couple thousand dollars extra!" My current custom made road bike, built in in 2010, has Shimano st-6703 Ultegra Dual Control Shifters. I like it. They aren't without fault, the mechanics are somewhat fragile, changing gear wires is somewhat difficult, but overall, these offer significant benefits compared to downtube shifters. I still have my old read bike, a Panasonic PR3000 bought in 1995 https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/pict2439.jpg/download and keep it as a backup and for indoor training, but I prefer to ride the newer bike. It wasn't that expensive, either, about EUR 1400 (~ $1700) in 2010. One of my sons bought a similar bike less than a year ago for even less money. If i was asked to list improvements, I'd name hub dynamos, led lights with free-form reflectors, clipless pedals (esp. SPD), plus all those tiny improvements which aren't really exiting and less observable - better brake pads, better alloy, better tires, better handlebar tape, ... Are those drum brakes? Sparta Cornwall Front: Fichtel&Sachs drum brake, Back: Pentasport coaster brake hub. -- Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen |
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#42
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I am that out of date
On 4/21/2021 4:59 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 1:05:38 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/21/2021 5:34 AM, wrote: On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 4:09:58 AM UTC-5, Tosspot wrote: On 17/04/2021 17:53, Ralph Barone wrote: Don’t forget the chromed steel rims. Nobody appears to be lamenting the demise of chromed steel rims. In the ****ed up world of retro bikes I have seen a few at work with chromed steel rims. Now those don't get ridden in the rain or I wouldn't be seeing them! Imho, the two biggest advancements to modern cycling, the alloy rim and bike lights. Hand up who remembers cycling home in the dark on a rainy night? NiCads suck. I'm not sure how far back "modern" cycling goes, but I would add gearing to the biggest advancement category. Front and rear derailleurs and a means to shift into the various rear cogs and/or chainrings. I agree. I've read old tales of touring with three or four speed hub gears. Walking up any significant climb was standard procedure. Before derailleur gearing, I think pneumatic tires were the biggest advancement. Since derailleur gearing I think we've been chasing ever tinier marginal improvements. The most modern "improvements" are very underwhelming. We're now down to "Ooh, I don't have to move my finger as far to get a gear change! And it cost me only a couple thousand dollars extra!" -- - Frank Krygowski I think that for the average bicyclist, one of the biggest advances in bicycling components was reliable index shifting.Since then just about anyone could get on a well st up bike and make effortless and precise gear changes. Doesn't matter if those index shifters were on the downtube or handlebar, they were a blessing for many. That's probably a good point, and a good addition to the list I posted. Part of the difference in judgment regarding the value of index shifting may be the equipment choice a person used just prior to indexing. I remember well a fast training ride I attended, a bunch of younger guys mostly running Campy Records or something similar. I watched a couple grinding away trying for a successful shift while I had no trouble. I had inexpensive slant parallelogram SunTour stuff, 5 cogs. (Still do on that bike.) They looked down on my equipment, but missing a shift was really rare for me. So for me, Shimano SIS was underwhelming. For others it was probably world changing. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#43
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I am that out of date
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#44
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I am that out of date
On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 10:05:38 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 5:34 AM, wrote: On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 4:09:58 AM UTC-5, Tosspot wrote: On 17/04/2021 17:53, Ralph Barone wrote: Don’t forget the chromed steel rims. Nobody appears to be lamenting the demise of chromed steel rims. In the ****ed up world of retro bikes I have seen a few at work with chromed steel rims. Now those don't get ridden in the rain or I wouldn't be seeing them! Imho, the two biggest advancements to modern cycling, the alloy rim and bike lights. Hand up who remembers cycling home in the dark on a rainy night? NiCads suck. I'm not sure how far back "modern" cycling goes, but I would add gearing to the biggest advancement category. Front and rear derailleurs and a means to shift into the various rear cogs and/or chainrings. I agree. I've read old tales of touring with three or four speed hub gears. Walking up any significant climb was standard procedure. Before derailleur gearing, I think pneumatic tires were the biggest advancement. Since derailleur gearing I think we've been chasing ever tinier marginal improvements. The most modern "improvements" are very underwhelming. We're now down to "Ooh, I don't have to move my finger as far to get a gear change! And it cost me only a couple thousand dollars extra!" A couple of weeks ago I was approaching an overpass over the local Freeway. There were three cyclists in front of me and I usually make no effort to overtake people like that because I do not want to make people feel inadequate. But I started closing down on them so rapidly and since the traffic lane was empty which was usual I decided to idle past them. Just as the overpass got "steep" ( about 4%) They all stepped off of their bikes so elegantly that it was plain that they were quite practiced at this. I don't remember what sort of bikes they were but they were not cheap. And they were all three Asians of some sort. Then I had to kick it in gear because a car was approaching at the usual 15 mph over the limit. |
#45
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I am that out of date
On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 2:26:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 4:59 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 1:05:38 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/21/2021 5:34 AM, wrote: On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 4:09:58 AM UTC-5, Tosspot wrote: On 17/04/2021 17:53, Ralph Barone wrote: Don’t forget the chromed steel rims. Nobody appears to be lamenting the demise of chromed steel rims. In the ****ed up world of retro bikes I have seen a few at work with chromed steel rims. Now those don't get ridden in the rain or I wouldn't be seeing them! Imho, the two biggest advancements to modern cycling, the alloy rim and bike lights. Hand up who remembers cycling home in the dark on a rainy night? NiCads suck. I'm not sure how far back "modern" cycling goes, but I would add gearing to the biggest advancement category. Front and rear derailleurs and a means to shift into the various rear cogs and/or chainrings. I agree. I've read old tales of touring with three or four speed hub gears. Walking up any significant climb was standard procedure. Before derailleur gearing, I think pneumatic tires were the biggest advancement. Since derailleur gearing I think we've been chasing ever tinier marginal improvements. The most modern "improvements" are very underwhelming. We're now down to "Ooh, I don't have to move my finger as far to get a gear change! And it cost me only a couple thousand dollars extra!" -- - Frank Krygowski I think that for the average bicyclist, one of the biggest advances in bicycling components was reliable index shifting.Since then just about anyone could get on a well st up bike and make effortless and precise gear changes. Doesn't matter if those index shifters were on the downtube or handlebar, they were a blessing for many. That's probably a good point, and a good addition to the list I posted. Part of the difference in judgment regarding the value of index shifting may be the equipment choice a person used just prior to indexing. I remember well a fast training ride I attended, a bunch of younger guys mostly running Campy Records or something similar. I watched a couple grinding away trying for a successful shift while I had no trouble. I had inexpensive slant parallelogram SunTour stuff, 5 cogs. (Still do on that bike.) They looked down on my equipment, but missing a shift was really rare for me. So for me, Shimano SIS was underwhelming. For others it was probably world changing. Before index shifting we could almost thow it into the proper spot. Since there were only 5 gears it wasn't all that hard. And then AFTER you got to a place where your attention wasn't required elsewhere you could fine-tune it. |
#46
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I am that out of date
On 4/21/2021 3:10 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:05:34 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski : On 4/21/2021 5:34 AM, wrote: On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 4:09:58 AM UTC-5, Tosspot wrote: On 17/04/2021 17:53, Ralph Barone wrote: Don’t forget the chromed steel rims. Nobody appears to be lamenting the demise of chromed steel rims. In the ****ed up world of retro bikes I have seen a few at work with chromed steel rims. Now those don't get ridden in the rain or I wouldn't be seeing them! O RLY? From 1992 to 1995 I rode my Sparta Cornwall bike to work, every single working day, around the year. https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/bild12a.jpg Indeed, these are chromed steel rims. Any idea why there wasn't any problem with that, huh? Sorry about the picture quality, that picture was taken using an Apple QickTake camera, in 1995. Imho, the two biggest advancements to modern cycling, the alloy rim and bike lights. Hand up who remembers cycling home in the dark on a rainy night? NiCads suck. Sure. So do lead/acid batteries, for example that gray piece marked "friwo" in the picture linked below. https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/licht/lichtc1.jpg/image_preview Or bottle dynamos, like that one. It sucked. https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/licht/P1050501a.JPG/view.html But somehow, most of this stuff worked good enough to server my well for many years. A few expensive parts did not. For example that one: https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/such/DSC04651.jpg. Do you know what it is? I'm not sure how far back "modern" cycling goes, but I would add gearing to the biggest advancement category. Front and rear derailleurs and a means to shift into the various rear cogs and/or chainrings. I agree. I've read old tales of touring with three or four speed hub gears. Walking up any significant climb was standard procedure. People still do that nowadays. Bicycles got lighter with alloy components, rims, frames, handlebar, this made it easier to push. I cycled to school on a heavy Rabeneick bicycle, using a 3 speed hub (Fichtel&Sachs Torpedo). Riding home (6%, about 120 m up) wasn't easy. But pushing that bike would have been even more strenous. Before derailleur gearing, I think pneumatic tires were the biggest advancement. What about better brakes? Since derailleur gearing I think we've been chasing ever tinier marginal improvements. Sure. But some of those marginal improvements are nice, nevertheless. The most modern "improvements" are very underwhelming. We're now down to "Ooh, I don't have to move my finger as far to get a gear change! And it cost me only a couple thousand dollars extra!" My current custom made road bike, built in in 2010, has Shimano st-6703 Ultegra Dual Control Shifters. I like it. They aren't without fault, the mechanics are somewhat fragile, changing gear wires is somewhat difficult, but overall, these offer significant benefits compared to downtube shifters. I still have my old read bike, a Panasonic PR3000 bought in 1995 https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/pict2439.jpg/download and keep it as a backup and for indoor training, but I prefer to ride the newer bike. It wasn't that expensive, either, about EUR 1400 (~ $1700) in 2010. One of my sons bought a similar bike less than a year ago for even less money. If i was asked to list improvements, I'd name hub dynamos, led lights with free-form reflectors, clipless pedals (esp. SPD), plus all those tiny improvements which aren't really exiting and less observable - better brake pads, better alloy, better tires, better handlebar tape, ... "Do you know what it is?" Roller dynamo, usually mounted behind the crank where they wear quickly from road grit. Is that a Sanyo or a Union or a Soubitez? -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#48
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I am that out of date
On 4/21/2021 7:01 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/21/2021 3:10 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote: Am Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:05:34 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski : On 4/21/2021 5:34 AM, wrote: On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 4:09:58 AM UTC-5, Tosspot wrote: On 17/04/2021 17:53, Ralph Barone wrote: Don’t forget the chromed steel rims. Nobody appears to be lamenting the demise of chromed steel rims. In the ****ed up world of retro bikes I have seen a few at work with chromed steel rims. Now those don't get ridden in the rain or I wouldn't be seeing them! O RLY? From 1992 to 1995 I rode my Sparta Cornwall bike to work, every single working day, around the year. https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/bild12a.jpg Indeed, these are chromed steel rims. Any idea why there wasn't any problem with that, huh? Sorry about the picture quality, that picture was taken using an Apple QickTake camera, in 1995. Imho, the two biggest advancements to modern cycling, the alloy rim and bike lights. Hand up who remembers cycling home in the dark on a rainy night? NiCads suck. Sure. So do lead/acid batteries, for example that gray piece marked "friwo" in the picture linked below. https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/licht/lichtc1.jpg/image_preview Or bottle dynamos, like that one. It sucked. https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/licht/P1050501a.JPG/view.html But somehow, most of this stuff worked good enough to server my well for many years. A few expensive parts did not. For example that one: https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/such/DSC04651.jpg. Do you know what it is? I'm not sure how far back "modern" cycling goes, but I would add gearing to the biggest advancement category.* Front and rear derailleurs and a means to shift into the various rear cogs and/or chainrings. I agree. I've read old tales of touring with three or four speed hub gears. Walking up any significant climb was standard procedure. People still do that nowadays. Bicycles got lighter with alloy components, rims, frames, handlebar, this made it easier to push. I cycled to school on a heavy Rabeneick bicycle, using a 3 speed hub (Fichtel&Sachs Torpedo). Riding home (6%, about 120 m up) wasn't easy. But pushing that bike would have been even more strenous. Before derailleur gearing, I think pneumatic tires were the biggest advancement. What about better brakes? Since derailleur gearing I think we've been chasing ever tinier marginal improvements. Sure. But some of those marginal improvements are nice, nevertheless. The most modern "improvements" are very underwhelming. We're now down to "Ooh, I don't have to move my finger as far to get a gear change! And it cost me only a couple thousand dollars extra!" My current custom made road bike, built in in 2010, has Shimano st-6703 Ultegra Dual Control Shifters. I like it.* They aren't without fault, the mechanics are somewhat fragile, changing gear wires is somewhat difficult, but overall, these offer significant benefits compared to downtube shifters.* I still have my old read bike, a Panasonic PR3000 bought in 1995 https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/pict2439.jpg/download and keep it as a backup and for indoor training, but I prefer to ride the newer bike.** It wasn't that expensive, either, about EUR 1400 (~ $1700) in 2010. One of my sons bought a similar bike less than a year ago for even less money. If i was asked to list improvements, I'd name hub dynamos, led lights with free-form reflectors, clipless pedals (esp. SPD), plus all those tiny improvements which aren't really exiting and less observable - better brake pads, better alloy, better tires, better handlebar tape, ... "Do you know what it is?" Roller dynamo, usually mounted behind the crank where they wear quickly from road grit. Is that a Sanyo or a Union or a Soubitez? My guess is Sanyo. There's one on one of my wife's bikes now. It's fine for her occasional use. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#49
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I am that out of date
On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 5:18:31 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 7:09 PM, John B. wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:05:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: Before derailleur gearing, I think pneumatic tires were the biggest advancement. Since derailleur gearing I think we've been chasing ever tinier marginal improvements. The most modern "improvements" are very underwhelming. We're now down to "Ooh, I don't have to move my finger as far to get a gear change! And it cost me only a couple thousand dollars extra!" And Tom talking about thousands of dollars for a used, second hand, bicycle? Is this a major reduction in the value of the dollar or is it an indication of how wealthy the average USian has become? I think it's mostly the latter. Despite some true poverty and despite certain individuals' whining, prosperity in the U.S. is probably higher than ever. I was recently talking to a friend about our skills in fixing things. That's out of fashion. Why bother? Just buy a new one! I think about my music-loving father. He must have been in his 50s when he splurged on a stereo radio. I've got six stereo sets sprinkled around the house. I just spent a few hours today organizing may collection of hundreds of CDs. What? CDs? Why don't you listen to 78 LPs? Fashion is a powerful thing. -- Jay Beattie. |
#50
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I am that out of date
On 4/21/2021 8:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 5:18:31 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/21/2021 7:09 PM, John B. wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:05:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: Before derailleur gearing, I think pneumatic tires were the biggest advancement. Since derailleur gearing I think we've been chasing ever tinier marginal improvements. The most modern "improvements" are very underwhelming. We're now down to "Ooh, I don't have to move my finger as far to get a gear change! And it cost me only a couple thousand dollars extra!" And Tom talking about thousands of dollars for a used, second hand, bicycle? Is this a major reduction in the value of the dollar or is it an indication of how wealthy the average USian has become? I think it's mostly the latter. Despite some true poverty and despite certain individuals' whining, prosperity in the U.S. is probably higher than ever. I was recently talking to a friend about our skills in fixing things. That's out of fashion. Why bother? Just buy a new one! I think about my music-loving father. He must have been in his 50s when he splurged on a stereo radio. I've got six stereo sets sprinkled around the house. I just spent a few hours today organizing may collection of hundreds of CDs. What? CDs? Why don't you listen to 78 LPs? Fashion is a powerful thing. Hmm. I don't recall ever having an opportunity to buy 78s. I do have a fairly respectable collection of vinyl albums, though. One household innovation triggered by COVID was to begin playing one of those during dinner time. And speaking of rpm: I remember one evening, playing Vivaldi, I told my wife "Wow, I don't like this performance. It seems rushed and screechy." Then I realized the speed control lever had been bumped. I was playing a 33 rpm recording at 45 rpm. Further BTW: I knew a young couple who, just for fun, bought an antique hand-crank ... Victrola? Is that what they're called? Amplification only by an acoustic horn - and with it, a collection of records. I suppose those were 78s? That illustrates a benefit of my vinyl. Given a straight pin and a paper cup, I can get the music out even after the zombie apocalypse. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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