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  #1  
Old October 11th 08, 11:08 PM posted to alt.machines.cnc,misc.survivalism,rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.impeach.bush,rec.bicycles.racing
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Posts: 253
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On Oct 11, 1:45*pm, Boater wrote:
Cliff wrote:
* "The Candidates as Trains"
*http://images.dailykos.com/images/us...tiontrains.jpg


That's just...hilarious.

Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.


Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
Freddie and Fannie until after the election, you'd see most of
Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame AND Nobama
himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
with his hands in the cookie jar. Wait, no... that won't happen.
He's drunk the koolaid himself, and actually believes he's the
messiah.

What he is, is a thinly-veiled socialist who believes in telling the
same lie over and over until its accepted as true.

Fred
  #2  
Old October 11th 08, 11:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Posts: 6,564
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On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:08:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Oct 11, 1:45*pm, Boater wrote:
Cliff wrote:
* "The Candidates as Trains"
*
http://images.dailykos.com/images/us...tiontrains.jpg

That's just...hilarious.

Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.


Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
Freddie and Fannie until after the election, you'd see most of
Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame AND Nobama
himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
with his hands in the cookie jar.


Who are Obama's Fannie/Freddie-connected financial advisors?

What "cookie jar"?

Where do you get this stuff?

BTW, are you aware that the head of the McCain campaign's company was
being piad by FreddieMac $15,000 per MONTH through August of this
year? And that in July (and possibly at other times) Mr. McCain denied
that any of his staff worked for that company (meaning McCain was
either being tricked by the head of his campaign, or lying. If it was
the former, I'd think he would have fired him...)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us...mccain.html?em

John McCain - straight talker you betcha.
  #3  
Old October 11th 08, 11:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
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Posts: 253
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On Oct 11, 4:18*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:08:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Oct 11, 1:45*pm, Boater wrote:
Cliff wrote:
* "The Candidates as Trains"
*http://images.dailykos.com/images/us...tiontrains.jpg


That's just...hilarious.


Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.


Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
Freddie and Fannie until after the election, you'd see most of
Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame AND Nobama
himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
with his hands in the cookie jar. *


Who are Obama's Fannie/Freddie-connected financial advisors?

What "cookie jar"?

Where do you get this stuff?

BTW, are you aware that the head of the McCain campaign's company was
being piad by FreddieMac $15,000 per MONTH through August of this
year? And that in July (and possibly at other times) Mr. McCain denied
that any of his staff worked for that company (meaning McCain was
either being tricked by the head of his campaign, or lying. *If it was
the former, I'd think he would have fired him...)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us...mccain.html?em

John McCain - straight talker you betcha.


uhhh, Raines, Jim Johnson, etc...


"The top three U.S. senators getting big Fannie and Freddie political
bucks were Democrats and No. 2 is Sen. Barack Obama. Now remember,
he's only been in the Senate four years, but he still managed to grab
the No. 2 spot ahead of John Kerry — decades in the Senate — and Chris
Dodd, who is chairman of the Senate Banking Committee."


You can lay the blame for the current credit mess squarely on the
shoulders of democrats who pressured the lending industry to give
loans to the poor and who refused to create the approriate regulations
to prevent the meltdown we're seeing. I'm sure you don't see it that
way, but you've got blinders on. Besides, its all Bush's fault,
right?
  #4  
Old October 12th 08, 01:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Posts: 6,564
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On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:53:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Oct 11, 4:18*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:08:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Oct 11, 1:45*pm, Boater wrote:
Cliff wrote:
* "The Candidates as Trains"
*
http://images.dailykos.com/images/us...tiontrains.jpg

That's just...hilarious.


Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.


Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
Freddie and Fannie until after the election, you'd see most of
Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame AND Nobama
himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
with his hands in the cookie jar. *


Who are Obama's Fannie/Freddie-connected financial advisors?

What "cookie jar"?

Where do you get this stuff?

BTW, are you aware that the head of the McCain campaign's company was
being piad by FreddieMac $15,000 per MONTH through August of this
year? And that in July (and possibly at other times) Mr. McCain denied
that any of his staff worked for that company (meaning McCain was
either being tricked by the head of his campaign, or lying. *If it was
the former, I'd think he would have fired him...)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us...mccain.html?em

John McCain - straight talker you betcha.


uhhh, Raines, Jim Johnson, etc...


Frank Raines had one or two phone calls with Obama staffers and now
he's one of Obama's financial advisors, despite both him and the Obama
campaign saying he's not? Nonsense. Jim Johnson was but resigned from
the Obama campaign before Freddie/Fannie imploded. He may be
culpable, but he to say he would be forced to resign is nonsensical
since he already has you dope.

"The top three U.S. senators getting big Fannie and Freddie political
bucks were Democrats and No. 2 is Sen. Barack Obama. Now remember,
he's only been in the Senate four years, but he still managed to grab
the No. 2 spot ahead of John Kerry — decades in the Senate — and Chris
Dodd, who is chairman of the Senate Banking Committee."


Where is this from? Butting quotes around some blog quote doesn't
make it right.

PS - I believe Obama got more contributions than McCain from Fannie
and Freddie employees, but that's like saying that if factory workers
are contributing to a campaging the candidate is going to favor the
company. Not necessarily. We have to look where decisionmakers in
the company are channeling money. Such as to the McCain campaign
head....

You can lay the blame for the current credit mess squarely on the
shoulders of democrats who pressured the lending industry to give
loans to the poor and who refused to create the approriate regulations
to prevent the meltdown we're seeing. I'm sure you don't see it that
way, but you've got blinders on. Besides, its all Bush's fault,
right?


Mainly if you include Plus Phil Gramm and the Republican leadership of
Congress. Probably Greenspan too, A tiny bit maybe Rubin (he's
actually an Obama advisor).


  #5  
Old October 12th 08, 02:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Howard Kveck
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Posts: 3,549
Default Trains

In article ,
wrote:

On Oct 11, 4:18*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:08:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Oct 11, 1:45*pm, Boater wrote:
Cliff wrote:
* "The Candidates as Trains"
*
http://images.dailykos.com/images/us...tiontrains.jpg

That's just...hilarious.


Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.


Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
Freddie and Fannie until after the election, you'd see most of
Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame AND Nobama
himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
with his hands in the cookie jar. *


Who are Obama's Fannie/Freddie-connected financial advisors?

What "cookie jar"?

Where do you get this stuff?

BTW, are you aware that the head of the McCain campaign's company was
being piad by FreddieMac $15,000 per MONTH through August of this
year? And that in July (and possibly at other times) Mr. McCain denied
that any of his staff worked for that company (meaning McCain was
either being tricked by the head of his campaign, or lying. *If it was
the former, I'd think he would have fired him...)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us...mccain.html?em

John McCain - straight talker you betcha.


uhhh, Raines, Jim Johnson, etc...


Franklin Raines is not and has never been a member of or advisor to Obama's
campaign. Johnson was brought in to help vet VP candidates - nothing more.

You can lay the blame for the current credit mess squarely on the
shoulders of democrats who pressured the lending industry to give
loans to the poor and who refused to create the approriate regulations
to prevent the meltdown we're seeing. I'm sure you don't see it that
way, but you've got blinders on. Besides, its all Bush's fault,
right?


Sorry, but the facts get in the way of your attempt to lay the blame for the
current economic crisis on blacks, hispanics and other minorities. (Not racist much,
are y'all?):
______________________

Federal Reserve Board data show that:
_ More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private
lending institutions.
_ Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and
moderate-income borrowers that year.
_ Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing
law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.
The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of
underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and
extending into 2007," the President's Working Group on Financial Markets reported
Friday.

(snipper)

To be sure, encouraging lower-income Americans to become homeowners gave
unsophisticated borrowers and unscrupulous lenders and mortgage brokers more chances
to turn dreams of homeownership in nightmares.
But these loans, and those to low- and moderate-income families represent a small
portion of overall lending. And at the height of the housing boom in 2005 and 2006,
Republicans and their party's standard bearer, President Bush, didn't criticize any
sort of lending, frequently boasting that they were presiding over the highest-ever
rates of U.S. homeownership.
______________________

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/53802.html

--
tanx,
Howard

Abandon the Creeping Meatball!

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
  #6  
Old October 12th 08, 05:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default Trains

On Oct 11, 7:16*pm, Howard Kveck wrote:
In article ,





wrote:
On Oct 11, 4:18*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:08:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Oct 11, 1:45*pm, Boater wrote:
Cliff wrote:
* "The Candidates as Trains"
*http://images.dailykos.com/images/us...tiontrains.jpg


That's just...hilarious.


Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.


Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
Freddie and Fannie until after the election, you'd see most of
Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame AND Nobama
himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
with his hands in the cookie jar. *


Who are Obama's Fannie/Freddie-connected financial advisors?


What "cookie jar"?


Where do you get this stuff?


BTW, are you aware that the head of the McCain campaign's company was
being piad by FreddieMac $15,000 per MONTH through August of this
year? And that in July (and possibly at other times) Mr. McCain denied
that any of his staff worked for that company (meaning McCain was
either being tricked by the head of his campaign, or lying. *If it was
the former, I'd think he would have fired him...)


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us...mccain.html?em


John McCain - straight talker you betcha.


uhhh, *Raines, Jim Johnson, etc...


* *Franklin Raines is not and has never been a member of or advisor to Obama's
campaign. Johnson was brought in to help vet VP candidates - nothing more..

You can lay the blame for the current credit mess squarely on the
shoulders of democrats who pressured the lending industry to give
loans to the poor and who refused to create the approriate regulations
to prevent the meltdown we're seeing. *I'm sure you don't see it that
way, but you've got blinders on. *Besides, its all Bush's fault,
right?


* *Sorry, but the facts get in the way of your attempt to lay the blame for the
current economic crisis on blacks, hispanics and other minorities. (Not racist much,
are y'all?):
- Show quoted text -


Not blaming anything on the minorities, only those who pander to them
but never actually help them.
  #7  
Old October 13th 08, 08:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Howard Kveck
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Posts: 3,549
Default Trains

In article ,
wrote:

On Oct 11, 7:16*pm, Howard Kveck wrote:
In article
,


wrote:


You can lay the blame for the current credit mess squarely on the
shoulders of democrats who pressured the lending industry to give
loans to the poor and who refused to create the approriate regulations
to prevent the meltdown we're seeing. *I'm sure you don't see it that
way, but you've got blinders on. *Besides, its all Bush's fault,
right?


* *Sorry, but the facts get in the way of your attempt to lay the blame for
the current economic crisis on blacks, hispanics and other minorities. (Not
racist much, are y'all?):


Not blaming anything on the minorities, only those who pander to them
but never actually help them.


Well, it comes across as blaming the minorities, and that has been much more
explicitly stated in many mainstream right leaning sources. There's several problems
with it, besides the ones that I presented in my last post. First thing to be aware
of is that people in this country are essentially raised to know that banks are to be
trusted. So when a lower income person sees everyone else buying a home, they want to
be part of that too. So they go to the mortgage broker and he shows them papers that
say they can qualify and that their down will be low (or zero) and the initial
payments will also be affordable. Many times, those brokers told them to fudge info
because that'd make it get approved more easily. The main thing is that people were
told they'd be able to afford it and, since it's they're dealing with a bank, they
trusted that info. Well, down the road the intererest rates adjusted and balloon
payments came due and people couldn't make the payments. Now, you don't actually
think that people went into that with the express idea of defaulting on the loan, do
you? Many people who got into the crazy adjustable rate loans that were aimed for the
sketchiest borrowers actually qualified for more straightforward (fixed rate) loans
but the brokers got a bigger commission on the other loan. Of course brokers want
more commissions.

A bigger part of the home loans in default are actually not in the "subprime"
market - it's more middle of the road people who bought more house than they needed
(the "McMansions"). Many of those people also jacked up their payments by doing HELOC
crap far beyond what they should have.

The programs to help lower income people get into home ownership are fine, but the
deregulation of the banking industry (thank Phil Gramm for much of that) made it so
that brokers didn't have enough oversight to keep them in line. The regulations and
oversight that were there before should have been enough to stop this stuff.

--
tanx,
Howard

Abandon the Creeping Meatball!

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
  #8  
Old October 13th 08, 07:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
SLAVE of THE STATE
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Posts: 1,774
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On Oct 11, 6:16*pm, Howard Kveck wrote:

* *Sorry, but the facts get in the way of your attempt to lay the blame for the
current economic crisis on blacks, hispanics and other minorities. (Not racist much,
are y'all?):


Oh, shut the **** up with the idiot-talk. It makes you sound like an
idiot.

The root of these wide-spread problems is the federal reserve (central
banking) and the banking laws. The Fed needs to be abolished, along
with a complete revision of law regarding reserve requirements and
clear disclosure of terms on deposits. (Just noting the first basics.)

If you're worring about inadequate regulation, and honesty in
advertising, maybe you could call out for abolishing the fed and
strict disclosure of fractional reserves in banking. And also insist
that guvmints did not allow banks to do what other firms are not
allowed to do: functionally operate as bankrupt while not announcing
or filing for bankruptcy. IOW, being allowed to suspend specie
payments. In fact, the guvmint promotes the bad behavior.

I could accept a _gradual_ phase out of the FED, but its gotta go.

The contemporary bogeyman of "insufficient credit" is complete
horse**** in the sense that cheap credit is at the base of the
liquidity and credit problems today. Sure, now the house of cards can
come tumbling down and there is only the bad "choice" of injecting
liquidity. And so they are "pushing on the string." And that is not
guaranteed to work, so the next step is massive fiscal policy because
the massive monetary policy will be limited. And yep, that is exactly
what is happening after we were told we needed this big bailout, sure
enough now there are calls for massive fiscal policy in addition. It
is the standard bogus (keynesian) econ doctine. It is so predictable.

If "you" are going to make the decision to have a cheap credit banking
system with an inflating central bank and fractional reserve banking,
you are going to have a boom-bust type of economy. No amount of
regulation is going to cure this in a complete way. Eliminating the
centralizing aspect and forcing full disclosures on deposits will
avoid the massive (wide-spread) boom-busts, although more local ones
would likely still happen.

You don't get rid of your problems by handing them over to guvmint,
unless you manage to saddle your neighbor instead.

I am a bit annoyed that guvmint policy incentivises me not to "hoard"
my cash, saving it to purchase a new clown car with full cash down.
Since the guvmint incentives to "not hoard" are strong, I use credit,
but invariably being uncertain of the value of money (to me) in this
guvmint distorted case, I overspend, buying an SUV instead of a clown
car. Then I cause too much global warming. Then I buy a 52'
flatscreen on credit. Then I buy a bigger house. All the stuff you
love is pure crank doctrine. No one is smart enough to pull the
levers on something so complex as what is vaguely called "the
economy." You are drinking koolaid if you listen to these frauds.

The best thing Obama or McCain could do to "lead" "us" out of the
crisis is to get the **** out of the way. But they won't do it. The
dominant doctrine/ideology is statism and a cult of personality. "We
need a great leader in these tough times." It is so sad that a nation
founded upon individual strength, "every man his own king," and
fortitude has come to this weirdo euro-trash ideology. People left
that elite-infested ****-hole to come to the USA. Now euro-tardism
has itself crossed the ocean. RIP USA.

The USA has not lived up to its ideals. So it may just as well go
straight to where it is going.

  #9  
Old October 14th 08, 02:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Howard Kveck
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Posts: 3,549
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In article ,
SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:

On Oct 11, 6:16*pm, Howard Kveck wrote:

* *Sorry, but the facts get in the way of your attempt to lay the blame for
the current economic crisis on blacks, hispanics and other minorities. (Not
racist much, are y'all?):


Oh, shut the **** up with the idiot-talk. It makes you sound like an
idiot.


Greg, what do you consider "idiot-talk," the part about right wing cretins trying
to blame it on minorities? Because that can be found with the quickness - the Great
Gazoogle works wonders. Or are you going to berate for not buying into your
one-size-fits-all "gubmint bad, smash gubmint" routine?

Reading on, yeah. Look at the bigger picture. RL, UM.

'Ow bow dat Krugman?

--
tanx,
Howard

Abandon the Creeping Meatball!

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
  #10  
Old October 13th 08, 06:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 822
Default Trains

On Oct 11, 4:53 pm, wrote:

You can lay the blame for the current credit mess squarely on the
shoulders of democrats who pressured the lending industry to give
loans to the poor and who refused to create the approriate regulations
to prevent the meltdown we're seeing. ...


Hold it, are you high? The derivatives bubble is a quadrillion. That's
not 4 trillion, by the way, that's 1000 trillion. All the mortgages
put together are spittle in a bucket. But nice one -- it's all the
fault of the poor, and the democrats. Go drink more koolaid.

 




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