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Could Key West be a bike model for America?



 
 
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  #101  
Old November 5th 08, 01:50 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc
Tom Sherman[_2_]
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Posts: 9,890
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?

KingOfTheApes wrote:
On Nov 3, 6:18 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"KingOfTheApes" wrote in message

...
[...]

Why are you a sheep? Because you believed the story of the WMDs.

Apparently only a supreme jerk like you did not believe that he had them.
Why aren't you running for president? You would be at least as good as B.
Hussein O.


Firstly, I'm not into power games, and secondly, I don't have the
money nor the intention to sacrifice my ideals to run for president.

But I'm a not whiner like you are.

TROLL SQUABBLE!

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.
Ads
  #102  
Old November 5th 08, 05:34 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Vito
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Posts: 61
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?

"Bill Sornson" wrote
Vito wrote:
"Had" as in yesterday or "had" as in 20 years ago? There is no doubt
Saddam once had WMDs - he used them on Iranians and Kurds. But he
was required to get rid of them all after the first Gulf War and
there is no evidence he failed to comply. None have turned up despite
careful searching.


http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors...yellowcake.htm

Yellowcake is *not* a WMD. Iraq has had the yellowcake mentioned for over
20 years and everybody, including CIA and UN inspectors knew about it - and
nobody with a brain cared because one needs a reactor to turn it into
weapons grade material. Are you old enough to remember what happened to
Iraq's reactor?


  #103  
Old November 5th 08, 05:36 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Vito
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Posts: 61
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?

"Bill Sornson" wrote
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors...yellowcake.htm

Take your pills, your hands are trembling.


  #104  
Old November 5th 08, 08:28 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
GeneralissimoApeshit
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Posts: 75
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?

This thread was started by Comandante Banana, has Ed Dolan, dragged in
Sorni and his WMD idiocy, and attracted a 9/11 "Truth" nutcase. This
could well be the most craptastic thing on Usenet, ever.

You should read this on Google Groups. All craptasticles have
hundreds of people rating you with one star ("poor, I would not
recommend this post"). ComandanteBanana/KingOfTheApes/DonQuixote/etc.
spreads them amongst his multiple personalities, but he's got
hundreds. Dolan is banned from Google Groups so you can't see how
many he's got, but you can see them all over every message he posts.
Frankly I don't understand how people can slog through all this crap
just to rate it badly!
  #105  
Old November 5th 08, 08:32 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
GeneralissimoApeshit
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Posts: 75
Default OT Lunatic Fight Could Key West be a bike model for America?

On Nov 3, 3:35*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"KingOfTheApes" wrote in message

...
On Nov 2, 9:05 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:


Maybe you guys could set up your own newsgroup. Then everyone who's
interested in what you have to say will automatically be subscribed.
  #106  
Old November 5th 08, 08:33 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
GeneralissimoApeshit
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Posts: 75
Default OT 9/11 "Truth" Conspiracy Theory Lunatic Could Key West be abike model for America?

On Nov 3, 5:45*pm, Henry wrote:

Hey lunatic, there's ALREADY a newsgroup for your interests. Go post
there, where you'll actually be on topic.

  #107  
Old November 5th 08, 02:52 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Henry[_3_]
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Posts: 129
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?

Vito wrote:
"Henry" wrote
I don't believe that Bush blew up the towers. He's
far too incompetent. These Mossad agents might know
something about it, though.


That's illogical.


No, it makes perfect sense, and it's factual.

link restored

These Mossad agents were observed filming and celebrating the
demolitions. They said they were there to document the event.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...eisraelis.html
http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/Bol...-Israelis.html

Muslim extremists, hostile to Saddam, perp'd the attack for their own
reasons that had nothing to do with Iraq.


You have not shred of evidence to support your conspiracy theory.
The evidence that 9-11 was an inside job is solid and convincing
to all but the most deluded conspiracy theorists.

Tell us why you "think" Cheney would permit a known
hijacked plane to enter the most heavy guarded airspace
on the planet almost an hour after the first tower was hit.
His stand down order resulted in a horrific loss of life
and property.


http://www.911truth.org/article_for_...70402105006226


3. Norman Mineta's mind-blowing testimony before the 9/11 Commission
concerning the last fifty miles of flight of the plane that hit the
Pentagon and Dick Cheney's orders about it, are matters of no apparent
concern to Dunbar and Reagan. Thus, were one to rely on their telling,
one would be unaware that Mineta was directed to the Presidential
Emergency Operations Center in the White House sometime after the second
plane hit the South Tower. One would not learn that he found Cheney in
charge and being informed by a young man as to the path of the plane
that hit the Pentagon. Nor would one know that Cheney was notified
periodically that the plane was fifty miles out, thirty miles out,
twenty, and ten. Avoiding the entire episode, Dunbar and Reagan
obviously make no mention of the young manÂ?s inquiry of Cheney upon the
final progress report, "Do the orders still stand"? Cheney's response,
turning abruptly to the young man and asking pointedly if he (the young
man) had heard anything to the contrary -- a fact of considerable
importance for an understanding of the entire event -- therefore is not
discussed in the pages of Debunking. As a consequence of this avoidance,
one will find no examination of the ramifications of this testimony. One
finds no query concerning the nature of the orders referred to, and no
speculation concerning Pentagon defenses and their failure to deploy.
There is no reference to the failure of the 9/11 Commission to find out
who the young man was, or how many other people were in the room, and
what their reactions were. There is no discussion of how the incident is
simply eliminated from history by the adoption of an alternative
chronology that contradicts a string of accounts and offers no
explanation of why Norman Mineta, now holder of the Presidential Medal
of Freedom, bestowed upon him by President Bush, would make up such an
amazing tale or have such an elaborately embroidered faulty memory. None
of these are matters for Dunbar and Reagan."


http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/g...wayWithIt.html

"The young man's reports to Cheney of the airliner's impending
approach is followed by his urgent question whether "the orders still
stand?" The young man was questioning the order. That question had to be
about whether the order NOT to destroy the approaching plane still
stood. Given the two prior attacks against the Twin Towers using the
commercial airliners as weapons, an order to destroy the plane
approaching the Pentagon would be the only order to give and would not
be subject to question by the young man as the plane approached.
Furthermore, had Cheney's order been to fire on the plane approaching
the Pentagon (which first came near the White House), the anti-aircraft
capacity of the Pentagon (or White House), would have sufficed to take
out that plane, and certainly to have attempted to take out that plane.
Since the Langley/Norfolk jets are at least 10 minutes away and out of
range, Cheney's order is about the on-site Pentagon or White House
defenses. Neither a shoot-down nor an attempted shoot-down occurred, and
since Mineta does not speak of a last-second change in orders by Cheney,
the only supportable conclusion is that Cheney's order was NOT to defend
the Pentagon, an order so contrary to both common sense and military
defense that it, and it alone, explains the questioning by the young man."

http://www.911truth.org/article_for_...70402105006226

3. Norman Mineta's mind-blowing testimony before the 9/11 Commission
concerning the last fifty miles of flight of the plane that hit the
Pentagon and Dick Cheney's orders about it, are matters of no apparent
concern to Dunbar and Reagan. Thus, were one to rely on their telling,
one would be unaware that Mineta was directed to the Presidential
Emergency Operations Center in the White House sometime after the second
plane hit the South Tower. One would not learn that he found Cheney in
charge and being informed by a young man as to the path of the plane
that hit the Pentagon. Nor would one know that Cheney was notified
periodically that the plane was fifty miles out, thirty miles out,
twenty, and ten. Avoiding the entire episode, Dunbar and Reagan
obviously make no mention of the young manÂ?s inquiry of Cheney upon the
final progress report, "Do the orders still stand"? Cheney's response,
turning abruptly to the young man and asking pointedly if he (the young
man) had heard anything to the contrary -- a fact of considerable
importance for an understanding of the entire event -- therefore is not
discussed in the pages of Debunking. As a consequence of this avoidance,
one will find no examination of the ramifications of this testimony. One
finds no query concerning the nature of the orders referred to, and no
speculation concerning Pentagon defenses and their failure to deploy.
There is no reference to the failure of the 9/11 Commission to find out
who the young man was, or how many other people were in the room, and
what their reactions were. There is no discussion of how the incident is
simply eliminated from history by the adoption of an alternative
chronology that contradicts a string of accounts and offers no
explanation of why Norman Mineta, now holder of the Presidential Medal
of Freedom, bestowed upon him by President Bush, would make up such an
amazing tale or have such an elaborately embroidered faulty memory. None
of these are matters for Dunbar and Reagan."


http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/g...wayWithIt.html

"The young man's reports to Cheney of the airliner's impending
approach is followed by his urgent question whether "the orders still
stand?" The young man was questioning the order. That question had to be
about whether the order NOT to destroy the approaching plane still
stood. Given the two prior attacks against the Twin Towers using the
commercial airliners as weapons, an order to destroy the plane
approaching the Pentagon would be the only order to give and would not
be subject to question by the young man as the plane approached.
Furthermore, had Cheney's order been to fire on the plane approaching
the Pentagon (which first came near the White House), the anti-aircraft
capacity of the Pentagon (or White House), would have sufficed to take
out that plane, and certainly to have attempted to take out that plane.
Since the Langley/Norfolk jets are at least 10 minutes away and out of
range, Cheney's order is about the on-site Pentagon or White House
defenses. Neither a shoot-down nor an attempted shoot-down occurred, and
since Mineta does not speak of a last-second change in orders by Cheney,
the only supportable conclusion is that Cheney's order was NOT to defend
the Pentagon, an order so contrary to both common sense and military
defense that it, and it alone, explains the questioning by the young man."


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=8788

With regard to the morning of 9/11, everyone agrees that at some time
after 9:03 (when the South Tower of the World Trade Center was struck)
and before 10:00, Vice President Dick Cheney went down to the
Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC), sometimes simply called
the “bunker,” under the east wing of the White House. Everyone also
agrees that, once there, Cheney was in charge---that he was either
making decisions or relaying decisions from President Bush. But there is
enormous disagreement as to exactly when Cheney entered the PEOC.

According to The 9/11 Commission Report, Cheney arrived “shortly
before 10:00, perhaps at 9:58” (The 9/11 Commission Report [henceforth
9/11CR], 40). This official time, however, contradicts almost all
previous reports, some of which had him there before 9:20. This
difference is important because, if the 9/11 Commission’s time is
correct, Cheney was not in charge in the PEOC when the Pentagon was
struck, or for most of the period during which United Flight 93 was
approaching Washington. But if the reports that have him there by 9:20
are correct, he was in charge in the PEOC all that time.

Mineta’s Report of Cheney’s Early Arrival
The most well-known statement contradicting the 9/11 Commission was made
by Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta during his public testimony
to the 9/11 Commission on May 23, 2003. Saying that he “arrived at the
PEOC at about 9:20 AM,” Mineta reported that he then overheard part of
an ongoing conversation, which had obviously begun before he arrived,
between a young man and Vice President Cheney. This conversation was
about a plane coming toward Washington and ended with Cheney confirming
that “the orders still stand.” When Commissioner Timothy Roemer later
asked Mineta how long after his arrival he overheard this conversation
about whether the orders still stood, Mineta replied: “Probably about
five or six minutes.” This would mean, Roemer pointed out, “about 9:25
or 9:26.”

This is a remarkable contradiction. Given the fact that Cheney,
according to Mineta, had been engaged in an ongoing exchange, he must
have been in the PEOC for several minutes before Mineta’s 9:20 arrival.
If Cheney had been there since 9:15, there would be a 43-minute
contradiction between Mineta’s testimony and The 9/11 Commission Report.
Why would such an enormous contradiction exist?

One possible explanation would be that Mineta was wrong. His story,
however, is in line with that of many other witnesses.

Other Reports Supporting Cheney’s Early Arrival
Richard Clarke reported that he, Cheney, and Condoleezza Rice had a
brief meeting shortly after 9:03, following which the Secret Service
wanted Cheney and Rice to go down to the PEOC. Rice, however, first went
with Clarke to the White House’s Video Teleconferencing Center, where
Clarke was to set up a video conference, which began at about 9:10.
After spending a few minutes there, Rice said, according to Clarke:
“You’re going to need some decisions quickly. I’m going to the PEOC to
be with the Vice President. Tell us what you need.” At about 9:15,
Norman Mineta arrived and Clarke “suggested he join the Vice President”
(Against All Enemies, 2-5). Clarke thereby implied that Cheney was in
the PEOC several minutes prior to 9:15.

In an ABC News program on the first anniversary of 9/11, Cheney’s
White House photographer David Bohrer reported that, shortly after 9:00,
some Secret Service agents came into Cheney’s office and said, “Sir, you
have to come with us.” During this same program, Rice said: “As I was
trying to find all of the principals, the Secret Service came in and
said, ‘You have to leave now for the bunker. The Vice President's
already there. There may be a plane headed for the White House.’” ABC’s
Charles Gibson then said: “In the bunker, the Vice President is joined
by Rice and Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta” (“9/11: Interviews
by Peter Jennings,” ABC News, September 11, 2002).

The 9/11 Commission’s Late-Arrival Claim
The 9/11 Commission agreed that the vice president was hustled down to
the PEOC after word was received that a plane was headed towards the
White House. It claimed, however, that this word was not received until
9:33. But even then, according to the Commission, the Secret Service
agents immediately received another message, telling them that the
aircraft had turned away, so “[n]o move was made to evacuate the Vice
President at this time.” It was not until “just before 9:36” that the
Secret Service ordered Cheney to go below (9/11CR 39). But even after he
entered the underground corridor at 9:37, Cheney did not immediately go
to the PEOC. Rather:

Once inside, Vice President Cheney and the agents paused in an area of
the tunnel that had a secure phone, a bench, and television. The Vice
President asked to speak to the President, but it took time for the call
to be connected. He learned in the tunnel that the Pentagon had been
hit, and he saw television coverage of the smoke coming from the
building. (9/11CR 40)

Next, after Lynne Cheney “joined her husband in the tunnel,” the
Commission claimed, “Mrs. Cheney and the Vice President moved from the
tunnel to the shelter conference room” after the call ended, which was
not until after 9:55. As for Rice, the Commission added, she “entered
the conference room shortly after the Vice President” (9/11CR 40).

The contradiction could not be clearer. According to the Commission,
Cheney, far from entering the PEOC before 9:20, as Mineta and others
said, did not arrive there until about 9:58, 20 minutes after the 9:38
strike on the Pentagon, about which he had learned in the corridor.

Cheney’s Account on Meet the Press

The 9/11 Commission’s account even contradicted that given by Cheney
himself in a well-known interview. Speaking to Tim Russert on NBC’s Meet
the Press only five days after 9/11, Cheney said: “[A]fter I talked to
the president, . . . I went down into . . . the Presidential Emergency
Operations Center. . . . [W]hen I arrived there within a short order, we
had word the Pentagon's been hit.” Cheney himself, therefore, indicated
that he had entered the PEOC prior to the (9:38) strike on the Pentagon,
not 20 minutes after it, as the Commission would later claim.

Dealing with the Contradictions
How did the 9/11 Commission deal with the fact that its claim about the
time of Cheney’s arrival in the PEOC had been contradicted by Bohrer,
Clarke, Mineta, Rice, several news reports, and even Cheney himself? It
simply omitted any mention of these contradictory reports.

Of these omissions, the most important was the Commission’s failure to
mention Norman Mineta’s testimony, even though it was given to the
Commission in an open hearing---as can be seen by reading the transcript
of that session (May 23, 2003). This portion of Mineta’s testimony was
also deleted from the official version of the video record of the 9/11
Commission hearings in the 9/11 Commission archives. (It can, however,
be viewed on the Internet.)

During an interview for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in 2006,
Hamilton was asked what “Mineta told the Commission about where Dick
Cheney was prior to 10 AM.” Hamilton replied: “I do not recall” (“9/11:
Truth, Lies and Conspiracy: Interview: Lee Hamilton,” CBC News, 21
August 2006). It was surprising that Hamilton could not recall, because
he had been the one doing the questioning when Mineta told the story of
the young man’s conversation with Cheney. Hamilton, moreover, had begun
his questioning by saying to Mineta: “You were there [in the PEOC] for a
good part of the day. I think you were there with the Vice President.”
And Mineta’s exchange with Timothy Roemer, during which it was
established that Mineta had arrived at about 9:20, came immediately
after Hamilton’s interrogation. And yet Hamilton, not being able to
recall any of this, simply said, “we think that Vice President Cheney
entered the bunker shortly before 10 o’clock.”

Obliterating Mineta’s Problematic Testimony
To see possible motives for the 9/11 Commission’s efforts to obliterate
Mineta’s story from the public record, we need to look at the
conversation he reported to the Commission. He said:

During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there
was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, “The
plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got
down to “the plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the Vice
President, “Do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned
and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand.
Have you heard anything to the contrary?”

Mineta’s story had dangerous implications with regard to the strike on
the Pentagon, which occurred at 9:38. According to the 9/11 Commission,
the military did not know that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon
until 9:36, so that it “had at most one or two minutes to react to the
unidentified plane approaching Washington” (9/11CR 34). That claim was
essential for explaining, among other things, why the Pentagon had not
been evacuated before it was struck---a fact that resulted in 125
deaths. A spokesperson for Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, when asked why
this evacuation had not occurred, said: “The Pentagon was simply not
aware that this aircraft was coming our way” (Newsday, Sept. 23, 2001).
Mineta’s testimony implied, by contrast, that Cheney and others knew
that an aircraft was approaching Washington about 12 minutes before that
strike.

Even more problematic was the question of the nature of “the orders.”
Mineta assumed, he said, that they were orders to have the plane shot
down. But the aircraft was not shot down. Also, the expected orders,
especially on a day when two hijacked airliners had already crashed into
buildings in New York, would have been to shoot down any nonmilitary
aircraft entering the “prohibited” airspace over Washington, in which
“civilian flying is prohibited at all times” (“Pilots Notified of
Restricted Airspace; Violators Face Military Action,” FAA Press Release,
September 28, 2001). If those orders had been given, there would have
been no reason to ask if they still stood. The question made sense only
if the orders were to do something unusual---not to shoot the aircraft
down. It appeared, accordingly, that Mineta had inadvertently reported
Cheney’s confirmation of stand-down orders.

That Mineta’s report was regarded as dangerous is suggested by the
fact that the 9/11 Commission, besides deleting Mineta’s testimony and
delaying Cheney’s entrance to the bunker by approximately 45 minutes,
also replaced Mineta’s story with a new story about an incoming
aircraft. According to The 9/11 Commission Report, here is what really
happened:

At 10:02, the communicators in the shelter began receiving reports from
the Secret Service of an inbound aircraft. . . . At some time between
10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that
the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for
authority to engage the aircraft. . . . The Vice President authorized
fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. . . . The military aide
returned a few minutes later, probably between 10:12 and 10:18, and said
the aircraft was 60 miles out. He again asked for authorization to
engage. The Vice President again said yes. (9/11CR 41)

The 9/11 Commission thereby presented the incoming aircraft story as
one that ended with an order for a shoot down, not a stand down. And by
having it occur after 10:10, the Commission not only disassociated it
from the Pentagon strike but also ruled out the possibility that
Cheney’s shootdown authorization might have led to the downing of United
Flight 93 (which crashed, according to the Commission, at 10:03).

Given the fact that the 9/11 Commission’s account of Cheney’s descent
to the bunker contradicted the testimony of not only Norman Mineta but
also many other witnesses, including Cheney himself, Congress and the
press need to launch investigations to determine what really happened.

--


They must find it difficult - those who have taken authority as the
Truth, rather than Truth as the authority. - G. Massey


http://911research.wtc7.net
http://stj911.org
http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html
http://www.911truth.org


Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html

On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html

http://911research.wtc7.net
http://stj911.org
http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html
http://www.911truth.org

Ever wonder who benefits from the 700 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...


"The new America, born in sin and arrogance, delusional
in Manifest Destiny, bred in overabundant gluttony,
consumerist and materialist, fathered by George W. Bush,
Dick Cheney and the Cabal of Criminality, a country flocked
by sheeple, ignorant and conditioned, indifferent to a world
growing up around it, living delusions of empire and of
omnipotence, building hatred against it and its policies
throughout the planet, slowly dumbing down its citizens,
losing its edge in the sciences and arts, producing a nation
of acquiescent automatons brainwashed to never question
authority and always faithfully follow the crimes of governance."
- Manuel Valenzuela
  #108  
Old November 5th 08, 03:13 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Henry[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 129
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?

Edward Dolan wrote:

The idiotic blather continues to go on for several more paragraphs


Thanks for the heads up, Eddy. We won't bother to read the rest
of your kook rant.




Why do you suppose a tape recording of conversations with air
traffic controllers on duty the morning of 9-11 would be
intentionally destroyed? This was the probably worst crime in
U.S. history. Don't you think destroying valuable evidence is
a bad idea?


http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artm...9/4392/printer

F.A.A. Official Scrapped Tape of 9/11 Controllers' Statements
By Matthew L. Wald
The New York Times

Thursday 06 May 2004

WASHINGTON - At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with
two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording
that day describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a
supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it,
the Transportation Department said today.

http://www.journalof911studies.com/v...impossible.pdf

9/11 and the Twin Towers: Sudden Collapse Initiation was
Impossible
By Frank Legge, PhD (Chemistry) and Tony Szamboti, Mechanical Engineer
23 Dec 2007

Numerous arguments have been presented that the Twin
Towers at the World Trade Centre could not have
collapsed in the observed manner due to the cause
asserted in the NIST report, namely damage from plane
impact and fire. 1 The bases of these arguments include
the rapidity and symmetry of collapse, 2 the adequacy of
the steel supports, 3 and the finding of incendiary
residues in the dust. 4 It has also been argued that the
initiating event in the official explanation, the sudden
collapse of one storey, 1 could not have occurred because
the steel was not hot enough. 5 This argument is based on
data set out in the NIST report itself. There is another
argument, as will be described here, that is based simply
on the behaviour of hot steel under load. No calculations
are involved and no knowledge of the temperature of the
steel is required.
In the official explanation the collapse occurs in two
stages. In the first stage one storey, damaged by plane
impact and fire, suddenly collapses. This allows the
section of the tower above to fall freely down and hit the
lower section. In the second stage the energy of this
impact is said to be sufficient to cause the top of the
lower section to disintegrate. This material adds to the
falling mass and further impacts cause disintegration to
continue in a rapid sequence all the way to the ground.6
Let us consider the situation just prior to the first stage.
There are some damaged columns, some fire, and a claimed
ack of fireproofing. Given the substantial safety factor
in the building design, the number of damaged columns is far
too few to put the buildings at risk without the fire. This
is elaborated on in the NIST report and elsewhere.1, 7 We
will ignore the fact that according to the physical evidence
data within the body of the NIST report, and contrary to its
conclusion, the steel did not get very hot. We will assume
the strongest case for the official theory: the fire was
uniform over the whole area and very hot. The fire has to
heat the steel, which takes time. Eventually the steel gets
hot enough that it cannot carry the load in the initiating
storey. It starts to sag. At this point there has been no
disruption of the columns, other than that caused by the
plane impact, hence most of the columns are still attached
to the floors above and below and are continuous, passing up
and down into other storeys, giving the columns rigidity. The
length of the columns between attachments is too short for
buckling to occur. 8 Failure must therefore be by compression.
As the steel sags two things will happen: the columns, as
they shorten, will become wider, which is obvious; and the
inherent strength of the steel will increase, which is not
obvious. It is well established however that the yield
strength of steel increases as the degree of distortion
increases. This tendency increases with rising temperature
and is pronounced at the temperatures required for collapse,
as can be seen in the graph below. 9 For both of these
reasons the initial sag cannot be catastrophic but will be
very slow and the rate will depend on the rate of heat input.
A rising temperature will be needed to offset both the
significant increase in yield strength and the slight
increase in cross-section area, if collapse is to progress.
It is clear therefore that the upper section should only
have moved down slowly and only continued to do so if
additional heat was supplied. A slow, protracted, and
sagging collapse was not observed however with either tower.
As observed in videos of both tower collapses, the upper
sections suddenly start to fall and disintegrate.10 In the
case of the south tower, initially a lean of the upper
section developed but within the first second this turned
into a rapid collapse with upper section disintegration,
just as was observed with the north tower. It appears
therefore that the official concept of a free fall collapse
of the upper portion through the initiation storey, due to
heat effects from fire, is a fantasy. If the temperature
did become high enough for collapse to occur it could not
have happened in the observed manner. 9 In particular it
could not have been sudden and thus could not have produced
the velocity, and hence the momentum and kinetic energy,
upon which the official story depends for the second stage
of collapse. In contrast, all observations are in accord with
the use of explosives in a timed sequence.
The case that the NIST report must be corrected is confirmed.
If this report is not corrected the suspicion will remain
that its purpose was not so much to inform as to deceive.






--


They must find it difficult - those who have taken authority as the
Truth, rather than Truth as the authority. - G. Massey


http://911research.wtc7.net
http://stj911.org
http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html
http://www.911truth.org


Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html

On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html

http://911research.wtc7.net
http://stj911.org
http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html
http://www.911truth.org

Ever wonder who benefits from the 700 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...


"The new America, born in sin and arrogance, delusional
in Manifest Destiny, bred in overabundant gluttony,
consumerist and materialist, fathered by George W. Bush,
Dick Cheney and the Cabal of Criminality, a country flocked
by sheeple, ignorant and conditioned, indifferent to a world
growing up around it, living delusions of empire and of
omnipotence, building hatred against it and its policies
throughout the planet, slowly dumbing down its citizens,
losing its edge in the sciences and arts, producing a nation
of acquiescent automatons brainwashed to never question
authority and always faithfully follow the crimes of governance."
- Manuel Valenzuela
  #109  
Old November 5th 08, 03:15 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Henry[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 129
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?

Road Glidin' Don wrote:

If you disagree with Henry about the twin towers being blown up by
Bush to give an excuse for attacking Iraq, then you also "fear the
message." Enjoy the taste of each other's medicine, boys.


I don't believe that Bush blew up the towers. He's
far too incompetent. These Mossad agents might know
something about it, though. They were observed filming
and celebrating the demolitions. They said they were
there to document the event.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...eisraelis.html
http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/Bol...-Israelis.html

Also, we have evidence that Cheney gave a stand down order as
flight 77 approached the Pentagon. It's quite a stretch to believe
that a known hijacked 757 would be permitted to fly into the most
heavily guarded air space on the planet an hour *after* the first
tower was hit.

http://www.journalof911studies.com/l...tagonOn911.pdf

The meek, slight man who allegedly forced a burly Vietnam era Fighter
pilot to hand over his plane and then proceeded to perform high speed
aerobatics over the Pentagon couldn't even fly a Cessna.

http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/...badpilots.html

But of course, these are facts and evidence that bearded cave man
cartoon conspiracy theorists are incapable of discussing, because
they show that 9-11 was an inside job. There's something "special"
about a conspiracy theorist who isn't able to explain or discuss his
own conspiracy.... ;-)



--

http://911research.wtc7.net
http://www.journalof911studies.com/
http://www.911truth.org



Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/anal...are/fires.html
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html

On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
http://wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm

Ever wonder who benefits from the 700 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...
  #110  
Old November 5th 08, 09:38 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
KingOfTheApes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,468
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?

On Nov 4, 4:18*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:

But I'm a not whiner like you are.


You are the biggest crybaby that Usenet has ever been cursed with. *A good
horsewhipping would do wonders for you!


Listen, I don't expect you to go since you are too old and stiff for
it, but think about it...

(It would be a long way from Minnesota, right?)

A MARCH ON WASHINGTON... ON BICYCLE?

Well, since the revolution will not be motorized, it makes sense that
we go to Washington on Inauguration Day not on cars or buses, but on
bikes. And like the minority president that we inaugurate, we are also
the victim of discrimination and abuse.

I think we can ride the winds of change, making sure that we don't
escape the Democratic Party radars that seems to focus on "alternative
technologies," and yet fail to detect the most basic, cheap, and
democratic vehicle ever created. It even makes sense in light of the
deep economic crisis since there's no dinero ($$$) to fund such
alternative vehicles.

I'm leaving from Miami, and you?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
(home of the Dutch model!)

http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution
 




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