footpath riding

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/arti...185062,00.html

"A cyclist who caused the death of a man he crashed into while riding
on the pavement at 25mph was facing jail yesterday after admitting
"wanton or furious" cycling."
[...]
"An inquest earlier this year heard how in March last year Messen had
borrowed the bicycle from a nephew and had not ridden it before. He
was cycling to another village, Bugle, and moved on to the pavement
because the traffic was heavy."

Apparently heading down hill very fast. On the footpath.

I wonder what the traffic was like, whether it was something an
experienced cyclist (It isn't clear how experienced this guy was) would
cope with or not.

I could imagine someone not confident in traffic deciding to do Melville
St on the footpath. That's got lots of cars at times, who are quite happy
to go around me after I move out into the lane because I don't want to
be squeezed between the parked cars and the moving ones. (Once I get to
50kmh halfway down the hill I'm doing traffic speed and no one passes me.)

I would worry about someone getting up to that sort of speed on the
footpath though. If they are scared of traffic but not scared of
doing those speeds on a footpath (can you really guarantee a decent
surface?) then there's something definitely wrong with 'em.

Trouble is, people who would consider riding on the footpath at speed
are the kind who don't think about consequences.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/arti...185062,00.html

"A cyclist who caused the death of a man he crashed into while
riding on the pavement at 25mph was facing jail yesterday
after admitting "wanton or furious" cycling."
[...]
"An inquest earlier this year heard how in March last year
Messen had borrowed the bicycle from a nephew and had not
ridden it before. He was cycling to another village, Bugle,
and moved on to the pavement because the traffic was heavy."

Apparently heading down hill very fast. On the footpath.

I wonder what the traffic was like, whether it was something
an experienced cyclist (It isn't clear how experienced this
guy was) would cope with or not.

I could imagine someone not confident in traffic deciding to
do Melville St on the footpath. That's got lots of cars at
times, who are quite happy to go around me after I move out
into the lane because I don't want to be squeezed between the
parked cars and the moving ones. (Once I get to 50kmh halfway
down the hill I'm doing traffic speed and no one passes me.)

I would worry about someone getting up to that sort of speed
on the footpath though. If they are scared of traffic but not
scared of doing those speeds on a footpath (can you really
guarantee a decent surface?) then there's something definitely
wrong with 'em.

Trouble is, people who would consider riding on the footpath
at speed are the kind who don't think about consequences.

Riding on footpaths is legal and normal here in the ACT of
course, and 40 km/h (25 mph) is not at all uncommon or
dangerous in the right circumstances.

To those who say that riding on footpaths is more hazardous (to
anybody) than riding on roads, I'd ask for the statistics to
back that up.

John

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 07 Oct 2007 07:30:57 +1000
John Henderson wrote:

Riding on footpaths is legal and normal here in the ACT of
course, and 40 km/h (25 mph) is not at all uncommon or
dangerous in the right circumstances.

Footpath? Or gazetted shared path?

Zebee

"Zebee Johnstone" wrote in message
...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/arti...185062,00.html

"A cyclist who caused the death of a man he crashed into while riding
on the pavement at 25mph was facing jail yesterday after admitting
"wanton or furious" cycling."
[...]
"An inquest earlier this year heard how in March last year Messen had
borrowed the bicycle from a nephew and had not ridden it before. He
was cycling to another village, Bugle, and moved on to the pavement
because the traffic was heavy."

Apparently heading down hill very fast. On the footpath.

I wonder what the traffic was like, whether it was something an
experienced cyclist (It isn't clear how experienced this guy was) would
cope with or not.

I could imagine someone not confident in traffic deciding to do Melville
St on the footpath. That's got lots of cars at times, who are quite happy
to go around me after I move out into the lane because I don't want to
be squeezed between the parked cars and the moving ones. (Once I get to
50kmh halfway down the hill I'm doing traffic speed and no one passes me.)

I would worry about someone getting up to that sort of speed on the
footpath though. If they are scared of traffic but not scared of
doing those speeds on a footpath (can you really guarantee a decent
surface?) then there's something definitely wrong with 'em.

Trouble is, people who would consider riding on the footpath at speed
are the kind who don't think about consequences.

Zebee

Or they are the type of people who consider a bike is no more than a toy -
not a "real vehicle"

If that orientation toward bikes could be changed we'd be heading in the
right direction...

me

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 07 Oct 2007 07:30:57 +1000
John Henderson wrote:

Riding on footpaths is legal and normal here in the ACT of
course, and 40 km/h (25 mph) is not at all uncommon or
dangerous in the right circumstances.

Footpath? Or gazetted shared path?

All footpaths are shared paths in the ACT - there's no
distinction made as far as riding is concerned. There are
classic concrete footpaths where 40 km/h or more is not
unreasonable when there's no conflict with pedestrians.

There are very few bicycle collisions with pedestrians, and
injuries are very rare indeed.

It's more the dogs walked illegally off-leash that creates real
potential for accidents.

John

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 07 Oct 2007 07:30:57 +1000
John Henderson wrote:

To those who say that riding on footpaths is more hazardous (to
anybody) than riding on roads, I'd ask for the statistics to
back that up.

Here you go, a couple from the first 10 hits on a google search of
accident statistics bicycle riding on footpath


===============
http://www.ausport.gov.au/fulltext/2...isuissue57.pdf

There is some indication that the provision of bike paths and lanes
separating bike traffic from other users may provide a degree of pro-
tection from cycle/motor vehicle crashes but only if it is in the same
direction as other traffic 8,9 . Riding on the footpath, on the other
hand, has been found to be more dangerous than riding on the road 9,10,11
.. This suggests that allowing cyclists to ride on footpaths may not have
been based on the best available evidence

===============
http://www.can.org.nz/research/Resea...-Sidewalks.pdf

In a recent New Zealand study (Munster et al 2001), it was estimated
from hospital data that four times as many cyclists are injured from
cycle-only crashes on the road or footpath than those involved in a motor
vehicle collision (note that this doesn't include off-road mountain-biking
track accidents either). When looking specifically at children, Safekids
(2001) concurred,
[..]
Closer to home and concentrating on road-specific crashes, LTSA injury
crash data for 1996-2000 shows that 58% of urban cycle crashes are
intersection crashes (including driveways). Looking specifically at
on-road crash movements that could be avoided on a footpath (e.g. hit
car door, rear-ended), less than a quarter of all on-road crashes appear
to be likely candidates, based on crash movement codes.

In moving cyclists to the footpath however, additional crash problems
may be introduced. More conflicts with pedestrians are likely for
example and there may be less reaction time for driveway or side-road
conflicts. Poor surfaces and geometrics are also likely to contribute
to the footpath hazards. In fact, a number of studies have found that
the crash rate involvement when cycling on footpaths (or "sidewalks")
is considerably higher than on the road or off-road cycle paths.

Aultman-Hall & Hall (1998) surveyed 1600 respondents around Ottawa,
Canada, recording regular routes taken to work/education, amounts of
cycle travel, and crash details. From "event" exposures calculated on
roads, off-road paths, and sidewalks, they found that the likelihood
of fall or injury (per 105 km) was four times higher on sidewalks than
roads. These findings caused the authors to dig a little deeper on
this issue. When Aultman-Hall & Adams (1998) looked at cycle travel
data from 2500 respondents in both Ottawa & Toronto, Canada, the mean
fall/collision rates on sidewalks were 2-10 times higher than equivalent
incidents on roads or off-road paths. A large proportion of sidewalk
incidents involved other cyclists, and surface conditions were also a
factor, e.g. cracked or uneven pavements.
[...]
Moritz (1997) found similar findings from an internet/mail survey of
"regular" commuters in US/Canada (2300 responses). Although "other"
facilities (mainly sidewalks) accounted for only 0.8% of distances
travelled, they accounted for 4.4% of crashes reported, a ratio of 5
compared with the on-road ratio. Further investigation by Moritz (1998)
on the relative crash rate for different facilities showed sidewalks to
be extremely dangerous (16 times worse than other facilities).
[...]
But while moving the cyclist off the road may be reducing their injury
severities, it may be transferring serious injuries to pedestrians that
are hit by them (albeit fairly rarely fatally). And in fact, Aultman-Hall
& Hall (1998) found in their survey that the likelihood of "major"
injuries was still about 1.7 times greater on sidewalks than roads.
===============

(I do note that the NZ paper does say that it is possible that the
people who ride on footpaths do so because they are not confident on
roads and so are more likely to crash anyway.)

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

Here you go, a couple from the first 10 hits on a google
search of accident statistics bicycle riding on footpath

I'm unconvinced. Given the popularity of off-road cycling here
in the ACT, I note the absence of news stories about serious
injury to cyclists or pedestrians on paths compared to the
all-too-frequent stories about serious injury involving cars on
roads. My own experience in coming across accident scenes only
reinforces this.

===============
http://www.ausport.gov.au/fulltext/2...isuissue57.pdf

There is some indication that the provision of bike paths and
lanes separating bike traffic from other users may provide a
degree of pro- tection from cycle/motor vehicle crashes but
only if it is in the same direction as other traffic 8,9 .
Riding on the footpath, on the other hand, has been found to
be more dangerous than riding on the road 9,10,11 . This
suggests that allowing cyclists to ride on footpaths may not
have been based on the best available evidence

The three references cited aren't immediately available. But I
do note that one is about accidents at intersections (where
footpath riders are forced onto the road presumably), and
another concerns young children (who are going to have
accidents on their bikes anyway, and are better off if those
don't involve cars).

John

===============
http://www.can.org.nz/research/Resea...-Sidewalks.pdf

In a recent New Zealand study (Munster et al 2001), it was
estimated from hospital data that four times as many cyclists
are injured from cycle-only crashes on the road or footpath
than those involved in a motor vehicle collision (note that
this doesn't include off-road mountain-biking track accidents
either). When looking specifically at children, Safekids
(2001) concurred,
[..]
Closer to home and concentrating on road-specific crashes,
LTSA injury crash data for 1996-2000 shows that 58% of urban
cycle crashes are intersection crashes (including driveways).
Looking specifically at on-road crash movements that could be
avoided on a footpath (e.g. hit car door, rear-ended), less
than a quarter of all on-road crashes appear to be likely
candidates, based on crash movement codes.

In moving cyclists to the footpath however, additional crash
problems may be introduced. More conflicts with pedestrians
are likely for example and there may be less reaction time for
driveway or side-road conflicts. Poor surfaces and geometrics
are also likely to contribute to the footpath hazards. In
fact, a number of studies have found that the crash rate
involvement when cycling on footpaths (or "sidewalks") is
considerably higher than on the road or off-road cycle paths.

Aultman-Hall & Hall (1998) surveyed 1600 respondents around
Ottawa, Canada, recording regular routes taken to
work/education, amounts of
cycle travel, and crash details. From "event" exposures
calculated on roads, off-road paths, and sidewalks, they found
that the likelihood of fall or injury (per 105 km) was four
times higher on sidewalks than roads. These findings caused
the authors to dig a little deeper on
this issue. When Aultman-Hall & Adams (1998) looked at cycle
travel data from 2500 respondents in both Ottawa & Toronto,
Canada, the mean fall/collision rates on sidewalks were 2-10
times higher than equivalent incidents on roads or off-road
paths. A large proportion of sidewalk incidents involved other
cyclists, and surface conditions were also a factor, e.g.
cracked or uneven pavements.
[...]
Moritz (1997) found similar findings from an internet/mail
survey of "regular" commuters in US/Canada (2300 responses).
Although "other" facilities (mainly sidewalks) accounted for
only 0.8% of distances travelled, they accounted for 4.4% of
crashes reported, a ratio of 5 compared with the on-road
ratio. Further investigation by Moritz (1998) on the relative
crash rate for different facilities showed sidewalks to be
extremely dangerous (16 times worse than other facilities).
[...]
But while moving the cyclist off the road may be reducing
their injury severities, it may be transferring serious
injuries to pedestrians that are hit by them (albeit fairly
rarely fatally). And in fact, Aultman-Hall & Hall (1998) found
in their survey that the likelihood of "major" injuries was
still about 1.7 times greater on sidewalks than roads.
===============

(I do note that the NZ paper does say that it is possible that
the people who ride on footpaths do so because they are not
confident on roads and so are more likely to crash anyway.)

Zebee

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 07 Oct 2007 10:21:46 +1000
John Henderson wrote:
Zebee Johnstone wrote:

Here you go, a couple from the first 10 hits on a google
search of accident statistics bicycle riding on footpath

I'm unconvinced. Given the popularity of off-road cycling here
in the ACT, I note the absence of news stories about serious
injury to cyclists or pedestrians on paths compared to the
all-too-frequent stories about serious injury involving cars on
roads. My own experience in coming across accident scenes only
reinforces this.

So where are the peds and the cyclists?

Are there cyclists doing 40kmh on footpaths outside homes, or other
areas where peds are not expecting cyclists?

In my experience of Canberra the cyclists stick to "cycle paths"
mostly, where peds expect cyclists and where peds are not that common.

Are "footpaths" in Canberra the same as "footpaths" in Sydney? In
size, surface, users?

How similar do you think Canberra cycling is to footpath cycling in
any other state in Oz?

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

So where are the peds and the cyclists?

Are there cyclists doing 40kmh on footpaths outside homes, or
other areas where peds are not expecting cyclists?

I wouldn't expect to ride at 40 km/h too close to houses, or
past unsuspecting pedestrians on a narrowish footpath. But
where an unobstructed footpath has clear visibility through
parkland for example, I don't see a problem.

In my experience of Canberra the cyclists stick to "cycle
paths" mostly, where peds expect cyclists and where peds are
not that common.

Are "footpaths" in Canberra the same as "footpaths" in Sydney?
In size, surface, users?

I haven't lived in Sydney, but in Brisbane, Adelaide and
Canberra, footpaths are much of a muchness. If anything,
Canberra footpaths have less traffic, but the driveways have no
gates because the front yards are unfenced.

How similar do you think Canberra cycling is to footpath
cycling in any other state in Oz?

There might be more opportunities for a safe fast spurt on a
Canberra footpath, but such opportunities certainly exist
elsewhere I've lived.

John

"John Henderson" wrote:

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

Here you go, a couple from the first 10 hits on a google
search of accident statistics bicycle riding on footpath
===============
http://www.ausport.gov.au/fulltext/2...isuissue57.pdf

Riding on the footpath, on the other hand, has been found to
be more dangerous than riding on the road 9,10,11 . This
suggests that allowing cyclists to ride on footpaths may not
have been based on the best available evidence

The three references cited aren't immediately available. But I
do note that one is about accidents at intersections (where
footpath riders are forced onto the road presumably)

LOL

Tell me about the footpaths in Canberra that allow cyclists to travel all
across town, through intersections without going onto the roads please. Here
in Melbourne any footpath that meets a road intersection involves some form
of on-road crossing! I'd guess that's where a lot of car-bike accidents will
happen. Maybe.

--
Cheers
Peter

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