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#1
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Left Turn Lanes - split lanes or wait behing in the line ??
Hi,
What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a Left Only lane). Options: 1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane) 2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car. I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be a car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the car on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the left turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars to turn and proceed. Few scenarios i have found #2 not work well A. when you are slowly passing all the cars on their right, the light could turn green - you are lane splitting and the cars start moving!! B. When the traffic on right (lanes where traffic goes straight) is moving fast (30mph) - it is down right dangerous. i sometimes resorting to box turns when there is too much traffic going straight that it is not easy to navigate to the left turn lane. what do you guys think ? are there rules in this regard - somehow, i missed this when i attended the LAB BikeEd class thanks, ravi |
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#2
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"Ravi" wrote in message news:1099446345.535654@sj-nntpcache-5... Hi, What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a Left Only lane). Options: 1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane) 2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car. I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be a car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the car on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the left turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars to turn and proceed. Few scenarios i have found #2 not work well A. when you are slowly passing all the cars on their right, the light could turn green - you are lane splitting and the cars start moving!! B. When the traffic on right (lanes where traffic goes straight) is moving fast (30mph) - it is down right dangerous. i sometimes resorting to box turns when there is too much traffic going straight that it is not easy to navigate to the left turn lane. what do you guys think ? are there rules in this regard - somehow, i missed this when i attended the LAB BikeEd class My belief is that you always follow the rules for cars. I never slide past any stopped cars to get to the front at any intersection unless there is a designated bike lane. In my experience it just makes cars angry to have to pass you again after you passed them when they were stopped. In your example above, I do number 1, but try to swing as wide right as possible, not taking the lane, allowing cars to pass me while they make the turn. |
#3
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On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:14:24 -0800, "RWM" wrote:
"Ravi" wrote in message news:1099446345.535654@sj-nntpcache-5... Hi, What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a Left Only lane). Options: 1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane) 2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car. I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be a car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the car on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the left turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars to turn and proceed. Few scenarios i have found #2 not work well A. when you are slowly passing all the cars on their right, the light could turn green - you are lane splitting and the cars start moving!! B. When the traffic on right (lanes where traffic goes straight) is moving fast (30mph) - it is down right dangerous. i sometimes resorting to box turns when there is too much traffic going straight that it is not easy to navigate to the left turn lane. what do you guys think ? are there rules in this regard - somehow, i missed this when i attended the LAB BikeEd class My belief is that you always follow the rules for cars. I never slide past any stopped cars to get to the front at any intersection unless there is a designated bike lane. In my experience it just makes cars angry to have to pass you again after you passed them when they were stopped. In your example above, I do number 1, but try to swing as wide right as possible, not taking the lane, allowing cars to pass me while they make the turn. It's hard to tell not seeing the general 'vibe' for that intersection, but if you're going as fast as any of the turning cars for the first part of the turn, yeah, take the lane, and keep up, then as soon as you get into the straightaway release the lane and get to the side if there's nothing to impede you. Most bikers, even clydesdales like me can keep up for that first 10 seconds around a turn and then find the safe spot. If it's a skinny one-lane road, I'd hit the intersection behind all the cars, rather than queue up in traffic, or take the lane until I could safely get over. On a narrow road, the traffic post turn I can usually sprint up to 22 mph and even stay ahead of the cars behind me and find the safe spot, typically the speed limit is only 25 and you're doing it, lol. If it's uphill, that's a different story. I might take it when traffic is clear, find another route, etc. There are always options, imo. ;-) -B |
#4
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Ravi wrote:
Hi, What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a Left Only lane). Options: 1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane) 2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car. I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be a car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the car on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the left turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars to turn and proceed. This is true, and it's often what I do. It does allow cars behind to pass in the middle of the turn rather than wait, which is less likely to **** them off. But it only makes sense if the road you're turning onto is wide enough to be fully outside of cars (ie, bike lane) when you complete your turn. Otherwise it makes more sense to just get in line with cars. However, there's one other reason to take approach #2. If you're waiting behind other cars, oncoming traffic can't see you until the last minute. This can be a problem for red light runners. Even if you have a green arrow, it's common for oncoming traffic making right turns to roll right around the corner. If you're first in line,waiting for the light, oncoming traffic still might not see you, because they're not looking for bikes. In that case, the "cover" of riding next to a car can be good protection. Few scenarios i have found #2 not work well A. when you are slowly passing all the cars on their right, the light could turn green - you are lane splitting and the cars start moving!! So signal, and take their lane. If they get ****ed off, tough. B. When the traffic on right (lanes where traffic goes straight) is moving fast (30mph) - it is down right dangerous. As long as you stay out of their way, it shouldn't be a problem. i sometimes resorting to box turns when there is too much traffic going straight that it is not easy to navigate to the left turn lane. what do you guys think ? are there rules in this regard - somehow, i missed this when i attended the LAB BikeEd class It would be great if everyone obeyed the rules, but riding defensively sometimes means taking the offense. Matt O. |
#5
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Ravi asked in part:
Options: 1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane) 2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car. I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be a car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the car on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the left turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars to turn and proceed. What you want is a combination of the two-- line up behind the last car, but on the right part of the lane. Keep an eye on the light and start well, then drift a little right through the turn. There is usually plenty of space in the void of the intersection to do this, but also be mindful of cars turning left from the other side of the intersection. Robert |
#6
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Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:14:24 -0800, ,
"RWM" wrote: "Ravi" wrote in message news:1099446345.535654@sj-nntpcache-5... Hi, What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a Left Only lane). Options: 1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane) 2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car. I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be a car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the car on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the left turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars to turn and proceed. \snip My belief is that you always follow the rules for cars. I never slide past any stopped cars to get to the front at any intersection unless there is a designated bike lane. In my experience it just makes cars angry to have to pass you again after you passed them when they were stopped. Tough titty. Cars don't get angry. It's the moron factor that comes with needing a cage to negotiate the morass its presence created. In your example above, I do number 1, but try to swing as wide right as possible, not taking the lane, allowing cars to pass me while they make the turn. I do number two. If they're all stopped I'm a the front of the line and make the turn wide so I end up in the right side of the right lane. If the cars are moving I split the lane. On level or downhill roads it's easier matching their speed. There's usually room in both lanes. I won't wait through two light sequences with my butt hanging out in the left turn lane unless nailed by a quick light. Then I'm first off the line at the next one. There's a few situations where I'll do a box at an intersection I'd normally do number two. Depends on the time of day, loads, grades and sequencing of lights. Splitting lanes uphill with a trailer isn't cool. -- zk |
#7
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Zoot Katz wrote:
I do number two. Constantly. Bill "sorry, ZK, just happened to catch it" S. |
#8
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On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:48:20 -0800, Ravi wrote:
Hi, What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a Left Only lane). Options: 1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane) 2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car. I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be a car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the car on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the left turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars to turn and proceed. Few scenarios i have found #2 not work well A. when you are slowly passing all the cars on their right, the light could turn green - you are lane splitting and the cars start moving!! B. When the traffic on right (lanes where traffic goes straight) is moving fast (30mph) - it is down right dangerous. i sometimes resorting to box turns when there is too much traffic going straight that it is not easy to navigate to the left turn lane. what do you guys think ? are there rules in this regard - somehow, i missed this when i attended the LAB BikeEd class thanks, ravi There is an option #3; the Swanston Street turn (named after a street in the middle of Melbourne, Australia.) Take the right lane, go across the intersection, then stop, swing bike round so as to face in the new direction (left) in the new right lane, wait for green, go. This way you do not have to ride out to the left-turning lane in the middle of the road. Peter -- If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or good -- will ever happen to you. |
#9
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Ravi wrote in message news:1099446345.535654@sj-nntpcache-5...
Hi, What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a Left Only lane). Options: 1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane) 2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car. I nearly always do 1. I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be a car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the car on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the left turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars to turn and proceed. If you are moving from a standstill, you should be able to accelerate at nearly the speed of traffic up to about 20 mph. Which will almost always get you through the intersection before you have to worry about holding anyone up. I try to avoid allowing cars to pass me in intersections at all costs. For one thing it's illegal for them to do so. But far more importantly to me, they obstruct other traffic's ability to see me, and they block one of my "outs" in case of emergency. Through the intersection I behave like a car, center of lane, moving at the speed of traffic. If they can't squeel their tires as much as they'd like due to my presence, tough. Turning Left from the right of the lane gives limited "emergency out" space. I try to ride in such a way that I always have somewhere to go in the event that things suddenly go wrong. Sliding between cars is also something of a bad idea. For one thing, it ****es them off and encourages them to not think of you as a vehicle. For another, it places you in a bad position as again, you have very little "out" space. If I am in the left lane on the road for any reason, I am in the middle of the lane. The only reasons I will be there are for turning, or to pass a slower moving or stopped vehicle. In either case I am moving fast enough to keep up with traffic and so may take the lane. Few scenarios i have found #2 not work well A. when you are slowly passing all the cars on their right, the light could turn green - you are lane splitting and the cars start moving!! yes, this is bad! B. When the traffic on right (lanes where traffic goes straight) is moving fast (30mph) - it is down right dangerous. again, take your lane, give yourslef more room. i sometimes resorting to box turns when there is too much traffic going straight that it is not easy to navigate to the left turn lane. this is a fine option for really ugly intersections. The only time I do option 2 is when I am rolling through an intersection on a green, with limited traffic going straight, significant traffic turning, and I am riding uphill such that I can't get close to the speed of traffic. I don't like doing it, but if the traffic is light enough I feel ok with it. HTH -Tim |
#10
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Robert wrote:
line up behind the last car, but on the right part of the lane. There are intersections where I do this and even filter head so I'm just behind the car that's at the front of the line. I almost never pass the car that's at the front, though I've been tempted by some of the depth-perception-challenged who have to wait until there's a full mile of clearance before they make their turn. There are some intersections, however, where keeping to the right in the left-turn lane can be a little hazardous. If the opposing direction also has a left-turn lane with a line of cars in it, they can block of the view of oncoming straight-through traffic. The only way to see this oncoming traffic is to take the turning lane. In these situations, I generally start in the *left* tire track so I can see oncoming traffic and move toward the right through my turn. RFM http://www.masoner.net/bike/ |
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