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Buying and Selling
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#52
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Buying and Selling
On 9/24/2017 9:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2017 2:43 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 9/24/2017 1:38 PM, sms wrote: On 9/24/2017 9:41 AM, Joerg wrote: snip For the record, I ride an American MTB and an international road bike (it was custom built from Dutch, Japanese, French, Italian and German parts). At least those are all real countries. Our dolt of a president has now started inventing new countries. At first people weren't sure if he had meant Gambia, Zambia, or Namibia, but the White House made a statement clarifying what he meant to say. And yet he won ... Which is an indictment of our education system, if not an indictment of most of our culture. That's an hypothesis, and may be true. But it's also possible that rather than being a nation of deplorables, people saw both major parties dither and spend and tax and dither until a raving lunatic became preferable. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#53
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Buying and Selling
On 2017-09-24 17:01, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 07:34:50 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-23 20:52, John B. wrote: On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:15:14 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-22 19:03, John B. wrote: On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 12:36:31 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote: On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote: On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote: snip Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that. It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to relatives in China. More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it take for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do they even have one? ... The origin country gets all the postage and the destination country gets nothing with the assumption that the volume will be roughly equal. The small volume of direct-to-consumer low-value items from China is not a core reason for the trade deficit. It is rising, big time. I know people who buy just about anything other than groceries on EBay. When they say "Oh, it always gets here in three to five weeks" you know what's going on. Heck, I even had stuff I bought on Amazon come via "China Post". ... These items would still come into the U.S. through other channels, at higher prices, were it not so cheap to do international shipping from China, you'd just have a middleman. Same reason. The stuff then comes in bulk but the shipping charges are grossly lower than if a US vendor sent the same items to Asia. It isn't just China. For example, when we needed name tags for our therapy dogs' vests (for nursing home visits) we ordered them via Amazon. A small package arrived from Manila, Philippines. I couldn't believe it considering that we had paid just a few Dollars. Looked at the postage, calculated - $0.60. Airmail! It came from a seamstress who appears to specialize in cloth name tags. The shipping cost discrepancy alone puts similar seamstresses in the US out of business. Given that the cost of living, and salaries, are as much as five times cheaper in China than in the U.S. how is changing the mailing costs going to effect sales? The ships and aircraft aren't going to be operable at five times less. Certainly ships are noticeably cheaper to operate if they are NOT U.S. flag vessels. Aircraft? I'm not sure but I would bet that crew costs are noticeably cheaper and almost certainly maintenance costs are cheaper and I would guess if a national carrier in China that fuel costs are also cheaper. Nope. They pretty much pay international (for example Singapore) prices: http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch....ID=18116&LANG= China Post flies Boeing and I can hardly imagine that they get spare parts and service a whole lot cheaper than anyone else whose fleet consist of Boeing aircraft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Postal_Airlines You seem to assume that Boeing parts are all that enter into maintaining an airplane. Wrong. The engines, for example, can be overhauled and labour, facilities and equipment are a large part of the cost of the overhaul. The airframe maintenance is also largely a matter of facilities, labour and equipment. Ah yes, and of course Rolls-Royce sells their engine parts and service to the Chinese at an 80% discount ... Hey! I was in the business of maintaining airplanes for my uncle for 20 years and the normal maintenance manpower for a fleet of airplanes was several hundred people. All of whom are five times cheaper in China, and the equipment, tools maintenance stands, buildings, all cheaper in China. Your uncle probably didn't fly Boeings or Airbuses internationally. Those companies require quite strict procedures or they will call off all bets. My wife's older sister and her son, his wife, and the grand kids visited Thailand about six months ago. The grandson, probably 19 years old, told me that he worked part time at "the dollar store" unloading trucks for $10 an hour. The current minimum salary in Thailand is 300 baht, about $9 a day. At today's exchange rate the U.S. salary, for coolie labour, is ~9 times the Thai salary. Think international for a minute. That changes things. International? Isn't Thailand and California international enough for you? See links above. Local wages are much less relevant when you consider international transport of good. Because someone has to pay the various transport sections, equipment, maintenance, et cetera. Many years ago I was peripherally involved in aircraft maintenance in Miami, Fla. and in those years there were many South American airplanes flying into Miami and every one of them would do everything that they could not to have any maintenance performed in los Estados Unidos as it was too expensive. Sure. However, the maintenance in Brasil or other places does not come at an 80-90% discount. It comes at a 20-30% discount, maybe. To a large extent because the parts cost the same. It does not explain a 5-10x factor between US and Chinese shipping costs. There is more going on, way deeper than equipment-related. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#54
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Buying and Selling
On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 9:10:40 AM UTC-4, wrote:
We all hear you declare time after time that everyone but you is stupid. Wow! Talk about a lack of self-awareness! - Frank Krygowski |
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Buying and Selling
On 9/25/2017 9:06 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-24 17:01, John B. wrote: 24 Sep Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-23 20:52, John B. wrote: 23 Sep Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-22 19:03, John B. wrote: 22 Sep Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote: On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote: On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote: snip -snip snip- Hey! I was in the business of maintaining airplanes for my uncle for 20 years and the normal maintenance manpower for a fleet of airplanes was several hundred people. All of whom are five times cheaper in China, and the equipment, tools maintenance stands, buildings, all cheaper in China. Your uncle probably didn't fly Boeings or Airbuses internationally. Those companies require quite strict procedures or they will call off all bets. -more snip- USAF, Navy, Marines & SAC fly LOTS of miles/hours. (no Airbus hardware!) -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#56
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Buying and Selling
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 07:06:25 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2017-09-24 17:01, John B. wrote: On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 07:34:50 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-23 20:52, John B. wrote: On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:15:14 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-22 19:03, John B. wrote: On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 12:36:31 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote: On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote: On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote: snip Or the brake pads from China, $2/pair and free ship. As I have always said the postage fees are grossly lopsided between Asia and the US and that is one of the core reasosn for our trade deficit. Except that most politicians (except manybe one ...) do not understand that. It's an international reciprocal postal treaty that no one worried about when it was mainly U.S. residents of Chinese descent sending packages to relatives in China. More than a decade ago tyat has changed, big time. How long does it take for politicians to turn on their brains? Or for some of them, do they even have one? ... The origin country gets all the postage and the destination country gets nothing with the assumption that the volume will be roughly equal. The small volume of direct-to-consumer low-value items from China is not a core reason for the trade deficit. It is rising, big time. I know people who buy just about anything other than groceries on EBay. When they say "Oh, it always gets here in three to five weeks" you know what's going on. Heck, I even had stuff I bought on Amazon come via "China Post". ... These items would still come into the U.S. through other channels, at higher prices, were it not so cheap to do international shipping from China, you'd just have a middleman. Same reason. The stuff then comes in bulk but the shipping charges are grossly lower than if a US vendor sent the same items to Asia. It isn't just China. For example, when we needed name tags for our therapy dogs' vests (for nursing home visits) we ordered them via Amazon. A small package arrived from Manila, Philippines. I couldn't believe it considering that we had paid just a few Dollars. Looked at the postage, calculated - $0.60. Airmail! It came from a seamstress who appears to specialize in cloth name tags. The shipping cost discrepancy alone puts similar seamstresses in the US out of business. Given that the cost of living, and salaries, are as much as five times cheaper in China than in the U.S. how is changing the mailing costs going to effect sales? The ships and aircraft aren't going to be operable at five times less. Certainly ships are noticeably cheaper to operate if they are NOT U.S. flag vessels. Aircraft? I'm not sure but I would bet that crew costs are noticeably cheaper and almost certainly maintenance costs are cheaper and I would guess if a national carrier in China that fuel costs are also cheaper. Nope. They pretty much pay international (for example Singapore) prices: http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch....ID=18116&LANG= China Post flies Boeing and I can hardly imagine that they get spare parts and service a whole lot cheaper than anyone else whose fleet consist of Boeing aircraft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Postal_Airlines You seem to assume that Boeing parts are all that enter into maintaining an airplane. Wrong. The engines, for example, can be overhauled and labour, facilities and equipment are a large part of the cost of the overhaul. The airframe maintenance is also largely a matter of facilities, labour and equipment. Ah yes, and of course Rolls-Royce sells their engine parts and service to the Chinese at an 80% discount ... To be honest I don't know how Rolls sells their jet engines but I do know that the U.S. engine makers sold their engines to the USAF much cheaper then they sold the same engines to commercial users. But I am sure that you know that jet engines are manufactured in China? CFN International, a joint venture between GE and SAFRAN Group. CFM has already delivered 20,000 engines over four decades, making it the most popular airline jet engine ever. In fact, a CFM-powered airplane takes off every 2.5 seconds. Perhaps they aren't using Rolls engines :-) Hey! I was in the business of maintaining airplanes for my uncle for 20 years and the normal maintenance manpower for a fleet of airplanes was several hundred people. All of whom are five times cheaper in China, and the equipment, tools maintenance stands, buildings, all cheaper in China. Your uncle probably didn't fly Boeings or Airbuses internationally. Those companies require quite strict procedures or they will call off all bets. Nope. The companies that make airplanes usually offer a number of what one might call "standard" versions, for example number of passenger seats or number of crew positions. Indonesia for example bought Boeing aircraft with only two crew positions when other companies were buying three crew configurations. And once you buy the thing, test flown and accepted, the aircraft belongs to you and Boeing or Airbus no longer have anything to say about it. My wife's older sister and her son, his wife, and the grand kids visited Thailand about six months ago. The grandson, probably 19 years old, told me that he worked part time at "the dollar store" unloading trucks for $10 an hour. The current minimum salary in Thailand is 300 baht, about $9 a day. At today's exchange rate the U.S. salary, for coolie labour, is ~9 times the Thai salary. Think international for a minute. That changes things. International? Isn't Thailand and California international enough for you? See links above. Local wages are much less relevant when you consider international transport of good. Because someone has to pay the various transport sections, equipment, maintenance, et cetera. Many years ago I was peripherally involved in aircraft maintenance in Miami, Fla. and in those years there were many South American airplanes flying into Miami and every one of them would do everything that they could not to have any maintenance performed in los Estados Unidos as it was too expensive. Sure. However, the maintenance in Brasil or other places does not come at an 80-90% discount. It comes at a 20-30% discount, maybe. To a large extent because the parts cost the same. No the parts do not cost the same. Boeing may sell them for a standard price but aircraft operators do not stock whole airplanes for spare parts. They usually buy from middlemen who charge whatever the market will bear. When I was in Indonesia we were approached by a group of Indonesian Airforce people to see if we could improve the maintenance on their helicopters. We approached the helicopter makers about parts prices and were referred to their S.E.A. representative who, in effect, told us to get lost as they already hade a very nice arrangement to sell parts to the Indonesian air force at prices much higher then they were selling to private helicopter companies in the region. It does not explain a 5-10x factor between US and Chinese shipping costs. There is more going on, way deeper than equipment-related. Of course it is. It is a deep and dark conspiracy to defraud the American public out of their honestly earned money. To defeat this evil plot is simple. Stop buying China made items. -- Cheers, John B. |
#57
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Buying and Selling
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 10:03:04 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2017 9:06 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-24 17:01, John B. wrote: 24 Sep Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-23 20:52, John B. wrote: 23 Sep Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-22 19:03, John B. wrote: 22 Sep Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote: On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote: On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote: snip -snip snip- Hey! I was in the business of maintaining airplanes for my uncle for 20 years and the normal maintenance manpower for a fleet of airplanes was several hundred people. All of whom are five times cheaper in China, and the equipment, tools maintenance stands, buildings, all cheaper in China. Your uncle probably didn't fly Boeings or Airbuses internationally. Those companies require quite strict procedures or they will call off all bets. -more snip- USAF, Navy, Marines & SAC fly LOTS of miles/hours. (no Airbus hardware!) Interestingly though, the Air Force, at least, developed a maintenance system based on a system developed by Pan American Airways. I simple terms it was a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" sort of scheme and did improved the flying hour/maintenance hour ratio. -- Cheers, John B. |
#58
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On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 12:42:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2017-09-25 08:03, AMuzi wrote: On 9/25/2017 9:06 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-24 17:01, John B. wrote: 24 Sep Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-23 20:52, John B. wrote: 23 Sep Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-22 19:03, John B. wrote: 22 Sep Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote: On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote: On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote: snip -snip snip- Hey! I was in the business of maintaining airplanes for my uncle for 20 years and the normal maintenance manpower for a fleet of airplanes was several hundred people. All of whom are five times cheaper in China, and the equipment, tools maintenance stands, buildings, all cheaper in China. Your uncle probably didn't fly Boeings or Airbuses internationally. Those companies require quite strict procedures or they will call off all bets. -more snip- USAF, Navy, Marines & SAC fly LOTS of miles/hours. (no Airbus hardware!) Which of them has their aircraft serviced by a low cost shop in China or elsewhere? Wrong again. In about 1967 there was a huge overhaul depot at Ching Chuan Kang Air Base (if I remember correctly) on Taiwan where hundreds of Chinese were busily overhauling F-4's. -- Cheers, John B. |
#59
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Buying and Selling
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 15:50:54 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2017 2:42 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-25 08:03, AMuzi wrote: On 9/25/2017 9:06 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-24 17:01, John B. wrote: 24 Sep Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-23 20:52, John B. wrote: 23 Sep Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-22 19:03, John B. wrote: 22 Sep Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-19 19:44, sms wrote: On 9/19/2017 6:52 PM, somebody wrote: On 2017-09-19 07:06, wrote: snip -snip snip- Hey! I was in the business of maintaining airplanes for my uncle for 20 years and the normal maintenance manpower for a fleet of airplanes was several hundred people. All of whom are five times cheaper in China, and the equipment, tools maintenance stands, buildings, all cheaper in China. Your uncle probably didn't fly Boeings or Airbuses internationally. Those companies require quite strict procedures or they will call off all bets. -more snip- USAF, Navy, Marines & SAC fly LOTS of miles/hours. (no Airbus hardware!) Which of them has their aircraft serviced by a low cost shop in China or elsewhere? Mr Slocumb might elaborate but I bet no facility staffed by Uncle Sam's enlisted military, anywhere, is 'low cost'. Having observed some of the civilian "feather merchants" that inhabit the military system I suggest that perhaps, disregarding the physical installation, the Military might be the lower cost :-) But in a more sober vein the Military works on a budget system. the Defense Department allocates so much money to a Unit for, say aircraft fuel, and the Unit is then tasked with using all that fuel, as the byword in any government agency is "Never, Never under spend your budget!" The theory being that if you don't use all the money this year you will get less next year. -- Cheers, John B. |
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Buying and Selling
On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 7:23:20 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
But I am sure that you know that jet engines are manufactured in China? CFN International, a joint venture between GE and SAFRAN Group. CFM has already delivered 20,000 engines over four decades, making it the most popular airline jet engine ever. In fact, a CFM-powered airplane takes off every 2.5 seconds. I suppose this is part of your thesis that they send jet engines via China Post |
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