Eschew Coolness in Favor of Intelligence. Use a High Power DaytimeFront Flashing Light.

On 9/21/2013 9:04 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:43:07 PM UTC-4, thirty-six wrote:
On Sunday, 22 September 2013 01:47:29 UTC+1, sms wrote:

On 9/21/2013 3:06 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:







He can legitimately believe that a flasher will make you more visible during the day.







Of course I can legitimately believe it because there's a mountain of



evidence that says that it's true.







Here's the deal--when you're going fast, such as on a long downhill run,



oncoming vehicles have a difficult time seeing you and judging how far



away you are, and will do stupid things, like turning left in front of



you, if they misjudge your speed and distance. The flashing light gives



them pause, and makes it much less likely that they'll cut you off.







Hmmm. SOLD It's actually been oncoming overtaking vehicles on NSL roads I have been most exposed to risk. When going downhill at 55mph+ there is not time to weave so that an half blind oncoming M/C at ton+ (or car at 50mph+) will see and pull back in.







It may be considered to be in poor taste to point out this fact at this

time, and I know that a few people will never look at the scientific and

statistical evidence because it conflicts with their own ingrained

beliefs, but hopefully most people will be willing to consider the

facts, use common sense, and take appropriate actions.







Note that it doesn't really cost you any more to have a front flashing

daytime light (assuming you have good lights for night riding already).

Nearly every battery powered, bicycle specific, light sold in the U.S.

includes a flash mode.



Nah, it specifically needs to be a BRIGHT flasher for daytime use, particularly on NSnoL roads.

To be VERY VISIBLE in BRIGHT DAYLIGHT that light isgoing to need to be very bright indeed. Therefore it will be too bright to use in flashing mode at night wherever it's quite dark without that flashing light blinding or otherwise being extremely annoying to other road users including other bicyclists.

Cheers

Alternating on-off (one side on while the other is off) high beams on
cars are quite attention getting. Of course (around here at least),
they are only legal on emergency vehicles.

--
T0m $herm@n

On 9/21/2013 6:43 PM, thirty-six wrote:

Nah, it specifically needs to be a BRIGHT flasher for daytime use, particularly on NSnoL roads.

The flashing mode of most lights defaults to maximum brightness. A few
have adjustable intensity on flash mode, and a few have adjustable
frequency.

"BRIGHT" lights are really the default for anything over about $50. For
example, Cygolite offers a 700 lumen front light for about $75, and the
800 lumen version is about $125.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0090Q5CTY (see Amazon's own price)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E1NQ21S

Much of the opposition to a front flasher appears to come from those
very few people outside Germany that have decided that the StVZO
standard is the be all and end all of standards. They probably do
comprehend the benefits of a flasher but for some reason feel compelled
to object. What they should do is just use a bright front flasher for
the daytime and the dynamo powered light at night.

On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 04:11:47 -0700, sms
wrote:

Follow the lead of motorcycles and always have a high power light, at
least 500 lumens, on in the daytime. Use it in flash mode.

A daytime flashing light greatly increases your visibility to oncoming
traffic and reduces the probability of a driver cutting you off by
turning in front of you.

It may be uncool to put a light on a 14 pound carbon fiber bicycle, but
eschew coolness. You can get a 700 lumen, USB rechargeable, light for
about $75, and it weighs less than 150 grams (about 1/3 pound).


I hate to say it but a "high power light", in highway terms, is not a
700 lumen light. Most motorcycles, even the small ones, have at least
a 40 watt headlight - the Honda Goldwing has 4 50 watt lights - and
from what I read LED lights put out 100 lumens, or less, per watt of
input power, so the average motorcycle, that you reference, has about
a 4,000 lumen light, some 6 times brighter then your recommended
bicycle light.

You are not comparing apples to apples.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 8:47:29 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 9/21/2013 3:06 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

He can legitimately believe that a flasher will make you more visible during the day.

Of course I can legitimately believe it because there's a mountain of
evidence that says that it's true.

None of that evidence has been presented here. As usual. All we've gotten is repeated assertions. As usual.

- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 15:06:53 -0700 (PDT), Jay Beattie
wrote:

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 8:45:32 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, September 21, 2013 7:11:47 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:

Follow the lead of motorcycles and always have a high power light, at



least 500 lumens, on in the daytime. Use it in flash mode.







A daytime flashing light greatly increases your visibility to oncoming



traffic and reduces the probability of a driver cutting you off by



turning in front of you.







It may be uncool to put a light on a 14 pound carbon fiber bicycle, but



eschew coolness. You can get a 700 lumen, USB rechargeable, light for



about $75, and it weighs less than 150 grams (about 1/3 pound).



What % of the cost of these lights do you get? That's about the only reason I can see for you to continue your promotion of these flashing lights for regular daylight use. They just aren't needed in bright daylight. And a very bright flashing light in full darkness is very annoying to other bicyclists.


He can legitimately believe that a flasher will make you more visible during the day. Maybe they do, but based on my daily commute with other cyclists, the most visible are those wearing high visibility clothing. I see those fluorescent yellow-green jackets way before the flashers during the daytime. Flashers are good at dawn and dusk, though. I run the flasher as a punitive measure in one part of my morning commute where there is a lot of traffic entering from the right. I also move farther in to the lane to improve sight lines. It's the Frank-Steve approach. My commute will be in the dark soon, and then I'll just run a solid beam.

-- Jay Beattie.

Having read the various posts regarding lights, I did a bit of
research this morning on my Sunday Ride. I leave the house at sunrise,
I use the Islamic definition of daylight - the ability to tell a black
goat hair from a white goat hair - as my criteria for "light enough".

I based my evaluation of vehicle visibility on observing the hordes of
small motorcycles that we have here and which, by law, must have their
lights on any time that they are moving.

When I leave the house, at dawn, about 0600 in this time of the year,
and with the usual rainy season morning overcast the bike lights
appear very bright and seem to make a very large difference in the
visibility of the motorcycles.

However, by 0730 the sun is well above the horizon and the motorcycle
lights, while still noticeable, appear much dimmer. By 0930 they are
hardly noticeable.

So it appears that (under certain conditions) lights make the vehicle
more visible however these conditions apparently are very much limited
to approximately an hour in the morning and approximately the same
period at sundown and of course during inclement weather - rain, fog,
snow, etc.

Another point is that most motorcycles are likely running 40 - 50
watt, or larger, lights as opposed to the 700 lumen lights recommended
for bicycles.

It might be well to point out that in looking at LED specs I see that
most High Power, single LEDs are said to be 3.2 VDC @ 350 milliamp or
some 1.1 watts. The maximum I came across was 700 ma @ 3.9 VDC or 2.7
watts and the same specifications called out temperatures measured at
350 ma which appears to mean that the higher figures were maximum
momentary figures and normal use figures are in the 1.4 watt range or
perhaps 140 lumen.

If we assume what appears to be a reasonable estimate for lumen per
watt of 100 then a motorcycle light would be approximately 40 X 100 =
4,000 lumen, which is about 6 times brighter then the referenced
bicycle light. But of course, the motorcycle is likely a simple
incandescent light bulb.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, 22 September 2013 03:04:08 UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


Nah, it specifically needs to be a BRIGHT flasher for daytime use, particularly on NSnoL roads.



To be VERY VISIBLE in BRIGHT DAYLIGHT that light isgoing to need to be very bright indeed. Therefore it will be too bright to use in flashing mode at night wherever it's quite dark without that flashing light blinding or otherwise being extremely annoying to other road users including other bicyclists.


Agreed, a daytime-only light.

If you are going to use a daytime flasher, you'll almost certainly want
to aim the light so that the centerline of the beam is horizontal to the
road. That means it will have to be re-aimed when riding in the dark.
I've yet to see a daytime flasher that, on a sunny day, is anywhere near
as visible as the cyclist alone.

--
Joe Riel

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 7:11:31 AM UTC+1, JoeRiel wrote:
If you are going to use a daytime flasher, you'll almost certainly want

to aim the light so that the centerline of the beam is horizontal to the

road. That means it will have to be re-aimed when riding in the dark.

I've yet to see a daytime flasher that, on a sunny day, is anywhere near

as visible as the cyclist alone.

--

Joe Riel

That's amazing, Joe. The Cateye TL-LD1100 is a pretty common lamp, and that's bright enough to be seen in daytime. I know, because motorists have congratulated me on being visible.

Furthermore, I have a fifteen Euro (say twenty USD) front lamp branded SUNN that is also bright enough to cause idiots to pay attention, because a few times when I've given the worst of them a taste of it, some have tried to make something of it. This light is operated at night pointing down and to the nearside (that's the sidewalk for y'all), and in the day is lifted up a bit but still pointing left; it's got clickstops for controlled and measured movements on its mount. When a driver comes too fast in one of my narrow lanes where there is no space to pass except at crawling speed, I tilt the bike a little to show him the light. If he is still stupid after that, I turn the light a couple of notches so it points straight at him, and hold it there until he slows. All it takes is balls of steel. I haven't yet found a moton with bigger cojones than mine.

That is not all. I also run my BUMM dynamo lamps (actually 36V battery lights, which aren't flashers, same optics you can buy in dynamo BUMM lamps from Peter White) whenever the bike moves, and those too are bright enough to be a handy warning in bright sunlight. I know, because the sort of idiot driver that never could never resist flashing my wife's Volvo estate on which the daylight running lamps aren't optional, also flashes me: he wants me to switch the lamp off. It means he's seen me and was overcome with the vicarious urge to control his fellow man we see so often among the trailer park trash on RBT.

I'm amazed you haven't seen bicycle lamps that are visible in daylight. As I've just demonstrated, they're pretty common. Scarfie will tell you which store near you stocks a humongous Cree LED torch with a flash mode; I bought one that looked like something Scharfie recommended when a local supermarket had it on special, and, holy Moses, it throws a lot of light, including on all of its interesting flash modes (if the Titanic had that SOS...).

Andre Jute

On 09/21/2013 08:47 PM, sms wrote:
On 9/21/2013 3:06 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

He can legitimately believe that a flasher will make you more visible
during the day.

Of course I can legitimately believe it because there's a mountain of
evidence that says that it's true.

*ANECDOTAL* evidence. The kind that you dismiss out of hand when you
disagree with it.

I guess your opinion is the deciding factor as to whether a piece of
anecdotal evidence is valid or not?


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Andre Jute writes:

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 7:11:31 AM UTC+1, JoeRiel wrote:
If you are going to use a daytime flasher, you'll almost certainly want

to aim the light so that the centerline of the beam is horizontal to the

road. That means it will have to be re-aimed when riding in the dark.

I've yet to see a daytime flasher that, on a sunny day, is anywhere near

as visible as the cyclist alone.

--

Joe Riel

That's amazing, Joe. The Cateye TL-LD1100 is a pretty common lamp, and that's bright enough to be seen in daytime. I know, because motorists have congratulated me on being visible.

Furthermore, I have a fifteen Euro (say twenty USD) front lamp branded SUNN that is also bright enough to cause idiots to pay attention, because a few times when I've given the worst of them a taste of it, some have tried to make something of it. This light is operated at night pointing down and to the nearside (that's the sidewalk for y'all), and in the day is lifted up a bit but still pointing left; it's got clickstops for controlled and measured movements on its mount. When a driver comes too fast in one of my narrow lanes where there is no space to pass except at crawling speed, I tilt the bike a little to show him the light. If he is still stupid after that, I turn the light a couple of notches so it points straight at him, and hold it there until he slows. All it takes is balls of steel. I haven't yet found a moton with bigger cojones than mine.

That is not all. I also run my BUMM dynamo lamps (actually 36V battery lights, which aren't flashers, same optics you can buy in dynamo BUMM lamps from Peter White) whenever the bike moves, and those too are bright enough to be a handy warning in bright sunlight. I know, because the sort of idiot driver that never could never resist flashing my wife's Volvo estate on which the daylight running lamps aren't optional, also flashes me: he wants me to switch the lamp off. It means he's seen me and was overcome with the vicarious urge to control his fellow man we see so often among the trailer park trash on RBT.

I'm amazed you haven't seen bicycle lamps that are visible in daylight. As I've just demonstrated, they're pretty common. Scarfie will tell you which store near you stocks a humongous Cree LED torch with a flash mode; I bought one that looked like something Scharfie recommended when a local supermarket had it on special, and, holy Moses, it throws a lot of light, including on all of its interesting flash modes (if the Titanic had that SOS...).

It's not that I cannot see the light [so to speak], but rather that I
have yet to see a daytime flasher, in practice, increase the visibility.
Yesterday, about 9:30 in the morning, on a mostly clear day, rather
typical for San Diego, I saw one cyclist with a flashing front light.
It wasn't the light that drew my attention; rather I noticed him and his
partner first, then shortly afterwards noticed the blinking light.
Really had to look to see it. Admittedly the conditions weren't optimal
(actually they were optimal, for cycling), this was on a four lane road,
so the lateral separation was significant. Hence my recommendation that
if you do use a daytime flasher, consider aiming it straight ahead---no
sense sending any photons into the pavement.

--
Joe Riel