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You really couldn't make it up...



 
 
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  #151  
Old July 21st 13, 03:31 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
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Posts: 11,574
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On 21/07/2013 14:37, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 06:27:18 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sunday, 21 July 2013 13:15:59 UTC+1, Mrcheerful wrote:
wrote:
On Sunday, 21 July 2013 12:28:04 UTC+1, Mrcheerful wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:

How do the stationary motor vehicles materialise on the footway?

they are put there while no people or items occupy that space.


Indeed, just like crossing the footway (my SOP whenever I have to go
anywhere other than within walking distance).

But even that "point" raised by BW was problematic, since exactly the
same thing applies to bicycles being parked on or off the highway.

What is lawful for a car is lawful for a bike (motorways, etc, excepted).

Indeed, because pedestrians have to jump out of the way to avoid
injury.


Yeah, right.

How I have managed to survive to my age and never seen that happen must
be one of the great mysteries.

There must be lots of news items about that, can you point to some? There
are many news items about pedestrians having to jump out of the way of
cyclists on the pavement, why is that?


It's not a news item because it's a regular occurrence. If you've never had to move smartly to avoid a pavement parker heading for you, then you don't get out enough.


I agree that I probably don't get out enough. In fact, I'll shortly go
out for a four-mile walk across the neighbouring farmland as an attempt
to redress that balance. But on the bits on the highway, I still won't
see anyone (including me) having to jump out of the way of a parked car.

I do think the problem varies in different parts of the country, and
even in towns the problem is different in different parts of the town.

For example, outside the Kebab shop just off the A20 in Lee is
particularly bad between 7pm and midnight. Eltham High Street is bad
daytime with delivery drivers.


Clearly, all High Street shops (particularly in London) should be shut
down and retail should only take place in places built for the purpose,
such as Bluewater or Lakeside or EOT hypermarkets, all equipped with
loading docks round the back.

That would make you happier, presumably.

Residential areas seem to be worse
overnight than during the day. Outside schools can be diabolical
8.30am to 9.30am and again 3pm to 4pm, just at the most dangerous
times when children are meeting their parents.


Define "most dangerous".

For that matter, define "dangerous".

In the context to which you allude, of course.

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  #154  
Old July 21st 13, 04:53 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Posts: 3,875
Default You really couldn't make it up...

"JNugent" wrote in message
On 20/07/2013 18:16, TMS320 wrote:


I didn't say "stationary motor vehicles represent the far greater threat
to pedestrians". I said that "motor vehicles represent the far greater
threat to pedestrians". Is there a factual error?


There is an error in ignoring the correct context, which was the topic of
stationary motor vehicles (with a later comparison between such stationary
vehicles and moving bicycles).


I couldn't give a stuff about context. When I go from place to place, in
order to complete my journey succesfully my actions have to take into
account all sources of danger. It's about absolutes, not about trying to
categorise against some kind of "motive". The wailing and gnashing of teeth
that goes on over the occasional cyclist is totally out of proportion. Motor
vehicles are by far the greatest danger to pedestrians.


  #156  
Old July 21st 13, 05:00 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Judith[_4_]
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Posts: 11,000
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 14:37:55 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


For example, outside the Kebab shop just off the A20 in Lee is
particularly bad between 7pm and midnight. Eltham High Street is bad
daytime with delivery drivers. Residential areas seem to be worse
overnight than during the day. Outside schools can be diabolical
8.30am to 9.30am and again 3pm to 4pm, just at the most dangerous
times when children are meeting their parents.



I hope you don't mind if I return to cycling matters:

I have known of a cyclist who claimed that it was OK for him to exceed the
speed limit of 20mph out side schools - because the speed limit does not apply
to cyclists.

Mind you - he was not very bright. He came from Hull.

  #157  
Old July 21st 13, 05:04 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,958
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 15:31:53 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 21/07/2013 14:37, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 06:27:18 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sunday, 21 July 2013 13:15:59 UTC+1, Mrcheerful wrote:
wrote:
On Sunday, 21 July 2013 12:28:04 UTC+1, Mrcheerful wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:

How do the stationary motor vehicles materialise on the footway?

they are put there while no people or items occupy that space.


Indeed, just like crossing the footway (my SOP whenever I have to go
anywhere other than within walking distance).

But even that "point" raised by BW was problematic, since exactly the
same thing applies to bicycles being parked on or off the highway.

What is lawful for a car is lawful for a bike (motorways, etc, excepted).

Indeed, because pedestrians have to jump out of the way to avoid
injury.


Yeah, right.

How I have managed to survive to my age and never seen that happen must
be one of the great mysteries.

There must be lots of news items about that, can you point to some? There
are many news items about pedestrians having to jump out of the way of
cyclists on the pavement, why is that?

It's not a news item because it's a regular occurrence. If you've never had to move smartly to avoid a pavement parker heading for you, then you don't get out enough.


I agree that I probably don't get out enough. In fact, I'll shortly go
out for a four-mile walk across the neighbouring farmland as an attempt
to redress that balance. But on the bits on the highway, I still won't
see anyone (including me) having to jump out of the way of a parked car.

I do think the problem varies in different parts of the country, and
even in towns the problem is different in different parts of the town.

For example, outside the Kebab shop just off the A20 in Lee is
particularly bad between 7pm and midnight. Eltham High Street is bad
daytime with delivery drivers.


Clearly, all High Street shops (particularly in London) should be shut
down and retail should only take place in places built for the purpose,
such as Bluewater or Lakeside or EOT hypermarkets, all equipped with
loading docks round the back.

That would make you happier, presumably.


Not at all. But many high streets are now semi-pedestrianised and only
allow delivery outside of shopping hours.

Residential areas seem to be worse
overnight than during the day. Outside schools can be diabolical
8.30am to 9.30am and again 3pm to 4pm, just at the most dangerous
times when children are meeting their parents.


Define "most dangerous".

For that matter, define "dangerous".

In the context to which you allude, of course.

  #158  
Old July 21st 13, 05:11 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
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Posts: 2,958
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 17:00:18 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 14:37:55 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


For example, outside the Kebab shop just off the A20 in Lee is
particularly bad between 7pm and midnight. Eltham High Street is bad
daytime with delivery drivers. Residential areas seem to be worse
overnight than during the day. Outside schools can be diabolical
8.30am to 9.30am and again 3pm to 4pm, just at the most dangerous
times when children are meeting their parents.



I hope you don't mind if I return to cycling matters:

I have known of a cyclist who claimed that it was OK for him to exceed the
speed limit of 20mph out side schools - because the speed limit does not apply
to cyclists.

Mind you - he was not very bright. He came from Hull.


Is this another Pavlovian response?
  #159  
Old July 21st 13, 05:13 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mrcheerful[_3_]
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Posts: 2,662
Default You really couldn't make it up...

TMS320 wrote:
"JNugent" wrote in message
On 20/07/2013 18:16, TMS320 wrote:


I didn't say "stationary motor vehicles represent the far greater
threat to pedestrians". I said that "motor vehicles represent the
far greater threat to pedestrians". Is there a factual error?


There is an error in ignoring the correct context, which was the
topic of stationary motor vehicles (with a later comparison between
such stationary vehicles and moving bicycles).


I couldn't give a stuff about context. When I go from place to place,
in order to complete my journey succesfully my actions have to take
into account all sources of danger. It's about absolutes, not about
trying to categorise against some kind of "motive". The wailing and
gnashing of teeth that goes on over the occasional cyclist is totally
out of proportion. Motor vehicles are by far the greatest danger to
pedestrians.


So is there a level below which it just doesn't matter? I mean is it OK if
I only kill one cyclist per year for instance? That would not represent
much danger to cyclists would it? Could I incapacitate two per year? or
perhaps 4 broken bones in a year, all without censure of course, since it
doesn't represent much danger to cyclists in general.


  #160  
Old July 21st 13, 07:51 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Alexis
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Posts: 45
Default You really couldn't make it up...

TMS320 wrote:

[...] The wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes on over the
occasional cyclist is totally out of proportion.


You only have to witness the wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes
on by a few of the anti-cyclists in this newsgroup as proof of that.
 




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