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You really couldn't make it up...



 
 
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  #31  
Old July 17th 13, 12:37 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,958
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:03:38 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:02:16 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


In/on what sort of vehicle does the operator most frequently ignore
one-way working, plus red traffic lights, pedestrian-only status of a
facility, etc?


Motor vehicle.



Please Sir : my dad says that that is incorrect: can you try again: or perhaps
provide some evidence if you're sure that you are right. It would be bad form
for an (ex) teacher to be giving out duff gen.


1. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore red traffic lights:
between 50% and 66% of them who have the opportunity to do so, do.
2. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore pedestrian only footways
by driving onto and parking on them.
3. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore speed limits.

The only one of the list which motor vehicle operators do infrequently
is ignore one-way working. However, as I am sure we can all agree, it
does happen.
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  #32  
Old July 17th 13, 12:42 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,958
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:12:04 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:53:25 +0100, "John Benn"
wrote:

"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

JNugent wrote:
PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had
been involved in a traffic accident):

QUOTE:
Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the
initial collision and dangerous driving?
He's clearly guilty of both.
ENDQUOTE

How about High Treason as well?

QUOTE:
And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by
driving the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut -
no doubt cctv footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.
ENDQUOTE

I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant penalties
being dealt out to offenders.

Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular
traffic most often ignores one-way working?

A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the news
because of
their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.

When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three people
before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?

This sort of event, if extremely rare with motor vehicles, never
happens with cyclists.

Cyclists never ignore traffic signs and signals?


They do, but a far, far lower percentage than motor vehicles.

But that was not my claim.


Strange, because I see cyclists ignore traffic signs , signals and sense
every day. It is a real event to see a cyclist that is riding legally for
any distance. So it would seem that something over 99 per cent of cyclists
routinely break traffic regulations.


I think that your 99% claim is as dubious as Tony Blair's claim that
Iraq needed just 45 minutes to launch weapons of mass destruction.

What percentage of motorists to you suppose routinely break traffic
regulations?

I don't use that as an excuse for cyclists to break traffic
regulations, but just as a means of comparison of the issue.
  #33  
Old July 17th 13, 12:52 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Pristine Bruise
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default You really couldn't make it up...

Mrcheerful wrote:

Pristine Bruise wrote:
Mrcheerful wrote:

Pristine Bruise wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:29:57 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

JNugent wrote:
PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had
been involved in a traffic accident):

QUOTE:
Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the
initial collision and dangerous driving?
He's clearly guilty of both.
ENDQUOTE

How about High Treason as well?

QUOTE:
And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by
driving the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut -
no doubt cctv footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.
ENDQUOTE

I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant
penalties being dealt out to offenders.

Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular
traffic most often ignores one-way working?

A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the
news because of their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.

When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three
people before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?


You are evading the question asked, how unusual.

But you had already answered the question, with, what I can only
assume, is something you can support with data.

Anyway, why should anyone want to equally compare breaking the law
in this way when it is considered a far greater crime to motor,
rather than cycle, the wrong way through a one-way system?

Can you let me know the statute that says that?


Your common sense should be enough for you to know that is true - why
bring up statutes? Would you expect the same penalty (punishment) for
breaking that law by cycling as you would for driving?


with the exception of points on the licence, yes.


I thought the fine would be larger but even so, the points would in
effect make the penalty much larger anyway.

Thus the principle stands, one is a lesser crime than the other and
that is reflected in the punishment.

--
Alexis
  #34  
Old July 17th 13, 12:53 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Pristine Bruise
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default You really couldn't make it up...

John Benn wrote:

"Pristine Bruise" wrote in message
...
Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:29:57 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

JNugent wrote:
PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had been
involved in a traffic accident):

QUOTE:
Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the
initial collision and dangerous driving?
He's clearly guilty of both.
ENDQUOTE

How about High Treason as well?

QUOTE:
And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by
driving the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut - no
doubt cctv footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.
ENDQUOTE

I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant penalties
being dealt out to offenders.

Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular
traffic most often ignores one-way working?

A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the news
because of their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.

When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three people
before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?


You are evading the question asked, how unusual.

But you had already answered the question, with, what I can only
assume, is something you can support with data.


Anyway, why should anyone want to equally compare breaking the law in
this way when it is considered a far greater crime to motor, rather
than cycle, the wrong way through a one-way system?


If you kill someone while on a bicycle, the law will treat you in exactly
the same way as if you were driving a car or lorry.


Exactly as it should be, but the potential to kill someone is less
when cycling than driving.

--
Alexis
  #35  
Old July 17th 13, 01:20 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
John Benn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 865
Default You really couldn't make it up...


"Pristine Bruise" wrote in message
...
John Benn wrote:

"Pristine Bruise" wrote in message
...
Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:29:57 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

JNugent wrote:
PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had been
involved in a traffic accident):

QUOTE:
Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the
initial collision and dangerous driving?
He's clearly guilty of both.
ENDQUOTE

How about High Treason as well?

QUOTE:
And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by
driving the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut - no
doubt cctv footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.
ENDQUOTE

I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant penalties
being dealt out to offenders.

Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular
traffic most often ignores one-way working?

A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the news
because of their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.

When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three people
before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?


You are evading the question asked, how unusual.

But you had already answered the question, with, what I can only
assume, is something you can support with data.

Anyway, why should anyone want to equally compare breaking the law in
this way when it is considered a far greater crime to motor, rather
than cycle, the wrong way through a one-way system?


If you kill someone while on a bicycle, the law will treat you in exactly
the same way as if you were driving a car or lorry.


Exactly as it should be, but the potential to kill someone is less
when cycling than driving.


That is true but the magnitude of the offence is the same.

  #36  
Old July 17th 13, 01:21 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
John Benn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 865
Default You really couldn't make it up...


"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:53:25 +0100, "John Benn"
wrote:

"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

JNugent wrote:
PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had been
involved in a traffic accident):

QUOTE:
Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the
initial collision and dangerous driving?
He's clearly guilty of both.
ENDQUOTE

How about High Treason as well?

QUOTE:
And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by driving
the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut - no doubt cctv
footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.
ENDQUOTE

I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant penalties
being dealt out to offenders.

Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular traffic
most often ignores one-way working?

A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the news
because
of
their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.

When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three people
before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?

This sort of event, if extremely rare with motor vehicles, never
happens with cyclists.


Cyclists never ignore traffic signs and signals?


They do, but a far, far lower percentage than motor vehicles.


Oh dear!

  #37  
Old July 17th 13, 01:49 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Pristine Bruise
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default You really couldn't make it up...

John Benn wrote:

"Pristine Bruise" wrote in message
...
John Benn wrote:

"Pristine Bruise" wrote in message
...
Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:29:57 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

JNugent wrote:
PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had been
involved in a traffic accident):

QUOTE:
Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the
initial collision and dangerous driving?
He's clearly guilty of both.
ENDQUOTE

How about High Treason as well?

QUOTE:
And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by
driving the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut - no
doubt cctv footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.
ENDQUOTE

I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant penalties
being dealt out to offenders.

Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular
traffic most often ignores one-way working?

A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the news
because of their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.

When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three people
before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?


You are evading the question asked, how unusual.

But you had already answered the question, with, what I can only
assume, is something you can support with data.

Anyway, why should anyone want to equally compare breaking the law in
this way when it is considered a far greater crime to motor, rather
than cycle, the wrong way through a one-way system?

If you kill someone while on a bicycle, the law will treat you in exactly
the same way as if you were driving a car or lorry.


Exactly as it should be, but the potential to kill someone is less
when cycling than driving.


That is true but the magnitude of the offence is the same.


So, we are agreed that the potential to kill someone is less
when cycling than driving and we are agreed that should you kill
someone with a bicycle or a car, the magnitude of the offence is the
same.

I don't really know what we are arguing about here now. Given that the
potential to kill someone is higher driving rather than cycling,
doesn't it just follow that the offence of riding a bike through a
one-way system the wrong way should be of a lower magnitude than the
offence of doing the same thing in a car? And isn't all this already
refected by the Law in the way transgressors in their respective
vehicles are treated (punished)?

--
Alexis
  #38  
Old July 17th 13, 03:02 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mrcheerful[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,662
Default You really couldn't make it up...

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:03:38 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:02:16 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


In/on what sort of vehicle does the operator most frequently ignore
one-way working, plus red traffic lights, pedestrian-only status
of a facility, etc?

Motor vehicle.



Please Sir : my dad says that that is incorrect: can you try again:
or perhaps provide some evidence if you're sure that you are right.
It would be bad form for an (ex) teacher to be giving out duff gen.


1. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore red traffic lights:
between 50% and 66% of them who have the opportunity to do so, do.
2. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore pedestrian only footways
by driving onto and parking on them.
3. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore speed limits.

The only one of the list which motor vehicle operators do infrequently
is ignore one-way working. However, as I am sure we can all agree, it
does happen.


It is very rare that car drivers ignore one way streets, some accidentally
go up them the wrong way, but cyclists do it quite deliberately.


  #39  
Old July 17th 13, 03:22 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,958
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:02:18 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:03:38 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:02:16 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


In/on what sort of vehicle does the operator most frequently ignore
one-way working, plus red traffic lights, pedestrian-only status
of a facility, etc?

Motor vehicle.


Please Sir : my dad says that that is incorrect: can you try again:
or perhaps provide some evidence if you're sure that you are right.
It would be bad form for an (ex) teacher to be giving out duff gen.


1. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore red traffic lights:
between 50% and 66% of them who have the opportunity to do so, do.
2. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore pedestrian only footways
by driving onto and parking on them.
3. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore speed limits.

The only one of the list which motor vehicle operators do infrequently
is ignore one-way working. However, as I am sure we can all agree, it
does happen.


It is very rare that car drivers ignore one way streets, some accidentally
go up them the wrong way, but cyclists do it quite deliberately.


It is very rare that cyclists ignore speed limits, some accidentally
speed in the royal parks, but motorists do it quite deliberately.
  #40  
Old July 17th 13, 03:23 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,958
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:02:18 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:03:38 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:02:16 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


In/on what sort of vehicle does the operator most frequently ignore
one-way working, plus red traffic lights, pedestrian-only status
of a facility, etc?

Motor vehicle.


Please Sir : my dad says that that is incorrect: can you try again:
or perhaps provide some evidence if you're sure that you are right.
It would be bad form for an (ex) teacher to be giving out duff gen.


1. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore red traffic lights:
between 50% and 66% of them who have the opportunity to do so, do.
2. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore pedestrian only footways
by driving onto and parking on them.
3. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore speed limits.

The only one of the list which motor vehicle operators do infrequently
is ignore one-way working. However, as I am sure we can all agree, it
does happen.


It is very rare that car drivers ignore one way streets, some accidentally
go up them the wrong way, but cyclists do it quite deliberately.


It is very rare that cyclists ignore bus lanes, some accidentally
stray into bus only lanes, but motorists do it quite deliberately.
 




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