You really couldn't make it up...

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 08:31:46 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:33 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 18/07/2013 19:14, Tosspot wrote:
On 18/07/13 11:35, JNugent wrote:
On 18/07/2013 02:03, Paul Cummins wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

Police Car...?

OK...

Just for the kids, I'll throw in the word "unlawfully".

I stand by my answer.

So you insist that I will - or anyone - see a police car being
driven along the footway more frequently than we will see a
bicycle being ridden along it, do you?

Just to clarify, I meant Planet Earth, not your obviously-other
world.

Well, if it's any help. I saw 4 being driven on a pavement tonight.

I have driven my car on the footway several times today.

Cars being illegally driven onto, and parked, on the footway by
criminals is a chronic problem in parts of London.
http://goo.gl/maps/HKNEy

Clare, who works in Central London says that cyclists on the footway
is a chronic problem also. However, I have scoured Google Streetview
on the area around Kingsway, where Clare works, but have not found one
example to show you.

The minor detail of the time of day that streetview pictures are taken would
seriously alter the number and location of all types of vehicles. to get a
more accurate idea try looking at live camera feeds at the sort of time that
Clare notices the problem.

So what you seem to be saying is that drivers are criminals for much
of the time, and cyclists are just part-time criminals?

On 19/07/2013 07:41, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:33 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 18/07/2013 19:14, Tosspot wrote:
On 18/07/13 11:35, JNugent wrote:
On 18/07/2013 02:03, Paul Cummins wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

Police Car...?

OK...

Just for the kids, I'll throw in the word "unlawfully".

I stand by my answer.

So you insist that I will - or anyone - see a police car being driven
along the footway more frequently than we will see a bicycle being
ridden along it, do you?

Just to clarify, I meant Planet Earth, not your obviously-other world.

Well, if it's any help. I saw 4 being driven on a pavement tonight.

I have driven my car on the footway several times today.

Cars being illegally driven onto, and parked, on the footway by
criminals is a chronic problem in parts of London.
http://goo.gl/maps/HKNEy

On the map display, it asks: "Is something missing"?

The answer is; "Yes, the so-called criminals referred to by the previous
poster".

Clare, who works in Central London says that cyclists on the footway
is a chronic problem also. However, I have scoured Google Streetview
on the area around Kingsway, where Clare works, but have not found one
example to show you. I did find this, where cyclists are actively
encouraged to ride on the footway:
http://goo.gl/maps/oDsyV

You don't need a weatherman...

Let's be clear about this.

In any circumstance where it is lawful and acceptable to drive a motor
car on a footway, it is equally legal and acceptable for a bicycle to be
used in the same way.

Thus, any vehicle can cross a footway for access to off-road land,
including a private dwelling, or a space which looks as though it
physically forms part of the footway but has, in fact, been reserved for
parking, of whatever sort of vehicle. There may be other, equally
lawful, circumstances.

What I am referring to is the footway being used as the route for part
of a journey, other than the very beginning or the very end of it. And
you and others *know* that.

Paul Cummins put finger to keyboard:

In article ,
(Mrcheerful) wrote:


You saw four Police cars making their journey on a footway? You
really should report that.

Who to?

Standard practice round these parts is to post a rambling diatribe to
uk.legal in the expectation that your views will go viral, the general
public will realise they have discovered a visionary, the masses will rise
up against oppression and overthrow the evil Police State we have
succumbed to and you will be hailed as the British Che Guevara.

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 08:31:46 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:33 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 18/07/2013 19:14, Tosspot wrote:
On 18/07/13 11:35, JNugent wrote:
On 18/07/2013 02:03, Paul Cummins wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

Police Car...?

OK...

Just for the kids, I'll throw in the word "unlawfully".

I stand by my answer.

So you insist that I will - or anyone - see a police car being
driven along the footway more frequently than we will see a
bicycle being ridden along it, do you?

Just to clarify, I meant Planet Earth, not your obviously-other
world.

Well, if it's any help. I saw 4 being driven on a pavement
tonight.

I have driven my car on the footway several times today.

Cars being illegally driven onto, and parked, on the footway by
criminals is a chronic problem in parts of London.
http://goo.gl/maps/HKNEy

Clare, who works in Central London says that cyclists on the footway
is a chronic problem also. However, I have scoured Google Streetview
on the area around Kingsway, where Clare works, but have not found
one example to show you.

The minor detail of the time of day that streetview pictures are
taken would seriously alter the number and location of all types of
vehicles. to get a more accurate idea try looking at live camera
feeds at the sort of time that Clare notices the problem.

So what you seem to be saying is that drivers are criminals for much
of the time, and cyclists are just part-time criminals?

No, only you are saying that.
Do you suppose that at every moment of every day of the year exactly the
same number of things are happening at a given location? or does it perhaps
vary by time, date and location and circumstance?

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:54:38 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 08:31:46 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:33 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 18/07/2013 19:14, Tosspot wrote:
On 18/07/13 11:35, JNugent wrote:
On 18/07/2013 02:03, Paul Cummins wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

Police Car...?

OK...

Just for the kids, I'll throw in the word "unlawfully".

I stand by my answer.

So you insist that I will - or anyone - see a police car being
driven along the footway more frequently than we will see a
bicycle being ridden along it, do you?

Just to clarify, I meant Planet Earth, not your obviously-other
world.

Well, if it's any help. I saw 4 being driven on a pavement
tonight.

I have driven my car on the footway several times today.

Cars being illegally driven onto, and parked, on the footway by
criminals is a chronic problem in parts of London.
http://goo.gl/maps/HKNEy

Clare, who works in Central London says that cyclists on the footway
is a chronic problem also. However, I have scoured Google Streetview
on the area around Kingsway, where Clare works, but have not found
one example to show you.

The minor detail of the time of day that streetview pictures are
taken would seriously alter the number and location of all types of
vehicles. to get a more accurate idea try looking at live camera
feeds at the sort of time that Clare notices the problem.

So what you seem to be saying is that drivers are criminals for much
of the time, and cyclists are just part-time criminals?

No, only you are saying that.

It was a question, not a statement of belief.

Do you suppose that at every moment of every day of the year exactly the
same number of things are happening at a given location? or does it perhaps
vary by time, date and location and circumstance?

No and yes.

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 09:18:54 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 19/07/2013 07:41, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:33 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 18/07/2013 19:14, Tosspot wrote:
On 18/07/13 11:35, JNugent wrote:
On 18/07/2013 02:03, Paul Cummins wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

Police Car...?

OK...

Just for the kids, I'll throw in the word "unlawfully".

I stand by my answer.

So you insist that I will - or anyone - see a police car being driven
along the footway more frequently than we will see a bicycle being
ridden along it, do you?

Just to clarify, I meant Planet Earth, not your obviously-other world.

Well, if it's any help. I saw 4 being driven on a pavement tonight.

I have driven my car on the footway several times today.

Cars being illegally driven onto, and parked, on the footway by
criminals is a chronic problem in parts of London.
http://goo.gl/maps/HKNEy

On the map display, it asks: "Is something missing"?

The answer is; "Yes, the so-called criminals referred to by the previous
poster".

That's because they have left the scene of their crime. The evidence
remains.

Clare, who works in Central London says that cyclists on the footway
is a chronic problem also. However, I have scoured Google Streetview
on the area around Kingsway, where Clare works, but have not found one
example to show you. I did find this, where cyclists are actively
encouraged to ride on the footway:
http://goo.gl/maps/oDsyV

You don't need a weatherman...

Let's be clear about this.

In any circumstance where it is lawful and acceptable to drive a motor
car on a footway, it is equally legal and acceptable for a bicycle to be
used in the same way.

Thus, any vehicle can cross a footway for access to off-road land,
including a private dwelling, or a space which looks as though it
physically forms part of the footway but has, in fact, been reserved for
parking, of whatever sort of vehicle. There may be other, equally
lawful, circumstances.

What I am referring to is the footway being used as the route for part
of a journey, other than the very beginning or the very end of it. And
you and others *know* that.

Oh - so it is OK to drive on the footway so long as it is to park on
(and obstruct) the footway?

Judith wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:00:47 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:22:34 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

It is very rare that cyclists ignore speed limits, some
accidentally speed in the royal parks, but motorists do it quite
deliberately.

Royal parks speed limits no longer apply to cyclists. The Royal
Parks
and Other Open Spaces (Amendments) etc Regulations 2010 redefined
'vehicle' to mean motor vehicles, so the speed limits there no longer
apply to cyclists.

regards, Ian SMith


Oh great - just what pedestrians in the parks need.

.... but there is a Cycling Policy, which contains a Pathway Code of Conduct
which states things like, "Pedestrians have priority over all other users of
pathways and shared
pathways, even in areas designated and marked for other purposes." and
similar things like consideration and safety:
http://www.royalparks.org.uk/__docum..._july_2008.pdf

--
Iain

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:54:38 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 08:31:46 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:33 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 18/07/2013 19:14, Tosspot wrote:
On 18/07/13 11:35, JNugent wrote:
On 18/07/2013 02:03, Paul Cummins wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

Police Car...?

OK...

Just for the kids, I'll throw in the word "unlawfully".

I stand by my answer.

So you insist that I will - or anyone - see a police car being
driven along the footway more frequently than we will see a
bicycle being ridden along it, do you?

Just to clarify, I meant Planet Earth, not your obviously-other
world.

Well, if it's any help. I saw 4 being driven on a pavement
tonight.

I have driven my car on the footway several times today.

Cars being illegally driven onto, and parked, on the footway by
criminals is a chronic problem in parts of London.
http://goo.gl/maps/HKNEy

Clare, who works in Central London says that cyclists on the
footway is a chronic problem also. However, I have scoured Google
Streetview on the area around Kingsway, where Clare works, but
have not found one example to show you.

The minor detail of the time of day that streetview pictures are
taken would seriously alter the number and location of all types of
vehicles. to get a more accurate idea try looking at live camera
feeds at the sort of time that Clare notices the problem.

So what you seem to be saying is that drivers are criminals for much
of the time, and cyclists are just part-time criminals?

No, only you are saying that.

It was a question, not a statement of belief.

Do you suppose that at every moment of every day of the year exactly
the same number of things are happening at a given location? or
does it perhaps vary by time, date and location and circumstance?

No and yes.

and therefore?

On 19/07/2013 16:19, Iain wrote:
Judith wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:00:47 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:22:34 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

It is very rare that cyclists ignore speed limits, some
accidentally speed in the royal parks, but motorists do it quite
deliberately.

Royal parks speed limits no longer apply to cyclists. The Royal
Parks
and Other Open Spaces (Amendments) etc Regulations 2010 redefined
'vehicle' to mean motor vehicles, so the speed limits there no longer
apply to cyclists.

regards, Ian SMith


Oh great - just what pedestrians in the parks need.

... but there is a Cycling Policy, which contains a Pathway Code of Conduct
which states things like, "Pedestrians have priority over all other users of
pathways and shared
pathways, even in areas designated and marked for other purposes." and
similar things like consideration and safety:
http://www.royalparks.org.uk/__docum..._july_2008.pdf

There's a law which says that cyclists may not cycle along footways
unless they are designated and marked as cycle routes, another law which
says that cyclists should obey traffic lights and yet another which says
that cyclists must comply with one-way working.

Cyclists don't, for the most part, take any notice of any of those either.

On 19/07/2013 14:30, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 09:18:54 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 19/07/2013 07:41, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:33 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 18/07/2013 19:14, Tosspot wrote:
On 18/07/13 11:35, JNugent wrote:
On 18/07/2013 02:03, Paul Cummins wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

Police Car...?

OK...

Just for the kids, I'll throw in the word "unlawfully".

I stand by my answer.

So you insist that I will - or anyone - see a police car being driven
along the footway more frequently than we will see a bicycle being
ridden along it, do you?

Just to clarify, I meant Planet Earth, not your obviously-other world.

Well, if it's any help. I saw 4 being driven on a pavement tonight.

I have driven my car on the footway several times today.

Cars being illegally driven onto, and parked, on the footway by
criminals is a chronic problem in parts of London.
http://goo.gl/maps/HKNEy

On the map display, it asks: "Is something missing"?

The answer is; "Yes, the so-called criminals referred to by the previous
poster".

That's because they have left the scene of their crime. The evidence
remains.

Clare, who works in Central London says that cyclists on the footway
is a chronic problem also. However, I have scoured Google Streetview
on the area around Kingsway, where Clare works, but have not found one
example to show you. I did find this, where cyclists are actively
encouraged to ride on the footway:
http://goo.gl/maps/oDsyV

You don't need a weatherman...

Let's be clear about this.

In any circumstance where it is lawful and acceptable to drive a motor
car on a footway, it is equally legal and acceptable for a bicycle to be
used in the same way.

Thus, any vehicle can cross a footway for access to off-road land,
including a private dwelling, or a space which looks as though it
physically forms part of the footway but has, in fact, been reserved for
parking, of whatever sort of vehicle. There may be other, equally
lawful, circumstances.

What I am referring to is the footway being used as the route for part
of a journey, other than the very beginning or the very end of it. And
you and others *know* that.

Oh - so it is OK to drive on the footway so long as it is to park on
(and obstruct) the footway?

It is OK wherever it is not an offence to park on (part of) the footway.
As you are well aware, there are places where LA signage indicates that
parking on part of the width is not only allowed, but in some cases,
encouraged by the painting of parking bays.

This is admittedly usually in locations where the footway shows signs of
once having had part of its width under cultivation.