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Weight of tamdem versus two solo bikes



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 11th 20, 05:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
ERSHC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Weight of tamdem versus two solo bikes

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 20:02:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:18:54 PM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
A modern triplet he
http://sandsmachine.com/a_san_t5.htm


Wow! 12 S and S couplers at, what, $300 a piece. That’s gotta be a pricey
bike.


But the picture of the triplet only has 9 S&S couplers. I know the description says 12 but I count 9. ????

Ads
  #12  
Old July 11th 20, 07:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
bob prohaska
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Posts: 102
Default Weight of tamdem versus two solo bikes

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/10/2020 5:00 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
A question posed to the New Scientist's 4 July issue posits
that multi-seat bikes have a total weight advantage over
solo bikes (per seat), asking at what seat count the weight
advantage per seat fades away.

Initially, I thought the premise of the question mistaken,
but now I'm curious: Is it true that a modern tandem weighs
less than two solo bikes of the same total carrying capacity?

The illustration that accompanied the question is of a triple,
which I've never seen anywhere in the wild and was probably
chosen for its attention getting value. It's on page 56, alas
no weblink is offered.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska


I don't know about triples, but for our tandem (i.e. double), I think
it's certainly true.

This is a steel bike, oversized Reynolds 531 tubing, lugless brazed
construction done in 1979 and no components are particularly
lightweight. It weighs about 39 pounds with fenders, dynamo lighting,
heavy wheels and 32mm tires. In those days I don't think a single bike
of its quality would have weighed less than 20 pounds.

There's also this authoritative reference, by Tony Pranses:

================================================== ===============

SHOVELIN' COAL

There are those who think the tandem is the instrument sublime
For the serious cycle-tourist, and the man concerned with time.
It has drive and rolls much faster as it gobbles up the track,
But it's quite another matter to the guy who sits in back...shovelin'
coal.

But just look at the advantages with twice the power at hand,
And half the wind resistance as it travels o'er the land.
The weight is less than double. This alone gives peace of mind.
But it's still another matter to the guy who sits behind...shovelin'
coal.

Yes, the man up front is master. It is he who shifts the gears.
He decides when brakes are needed, and on top of this he steers.
He can go the wrong direction and wind up in Timbuktu;
But refuses any protest from the guy who's number two...shovelin' coal.

It's just like a locomotive, with the front man engineer,
He sits back and shouts instructions to the fireman in the rear.
It's the way to run a railroad. With a bike it's not so sweet
To the sweating, swearing fellow on the secondary seat...shovelin' coal.

True, the pilots work the throttles while their partners work the flaps.
They are barely more than slaves -- a society of saps.
Co-pilots do the labor. They are not supposed to feel.
It's likewise with the suckers above the rearward wheel...shovelin'
coal.

His view ahead is blank and to peek would be a sin;
So he can't see where he's going -- only places where he's been.
He would love to lean to starboard when to port they make a turn,
But such pleasure is verboten to the fellow in the stern...shovelin'
coal.

Yet there will be retribution on some future day in hell,
When all tandem frames have melted, and the tandem leaders yell.
In agony they writhe, and some mercy they request;
But the back men just keep doing the thing they've done the
best...shovelin' coal.

================================================== ===========

Note "The weight is less than double" in the second stanza. Case closed!


Marvelous awful poetry! Thank you!

bob prohaska


  #13  
Old July 12th 20, 04:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,638
Default Weight of tamdem versus two solo bikes

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:04:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

================================================== ===============

SHOVELIN' COAL

There are those who think the tandem is the instrument sublime
For the serious cycle-tourist, and the man concerned with time.
It has drive and rolls much faster as it gobbles up the track,
But it's quite another matter to the guy who sits in back...shovelin'
coal.

But just look at the advantages with twice the power at hand,
And half the wind resistance as it travels o'er the land.
The weight is less than double. This alone gives peace of mind.
But it's still another matter to the guy who sits behind...shovelin'
coal.

Yes, the man up front is master. It is he who shifts the gears.
He decides when brakes are needed, and on top of this he steers.
He can go the wrong direction and wind up in Timbuktu;
But refuses any protest from the guy who's number two...shovelin' coal.

It's just like a locomotive, with the front man engineer,
He sits back and shouts instructions to the fireman in the rear.
It's the way to run a railroad. With a bike it's not so sweet
To the sweating, swearing fellow on the secondary seat...shovelin' coal.

True, the pilots work the throttles while their partners work the flaps.
They are barely more than slaves -- a society of saps.
Co-pilots do the labor. They are not supposed to feel.
It's likewise with the suckers above the rearward wheel...shovelin'
coal.

His view ahead is blank and to peek would be a sin;
So he can't see where he's going -- only places where he's been.
He would love to lean to starboard when to port they make a turn,
But such pleasure is verboten to the fellow in the stern...shovelin'
coal.

Yet there will be retribution on some future day in hell,
When all tandem frames have melted, and the tandem leaders yell.
In agony they writhe, and some mercy they request;
But the back men just keep doing the thing they've done the
best...shovelin' coal.

================================================== ===========

He didn't mention that the stoker on a tandem also serves as a tail
gunner. I once rode cross country in a group that included a tandem
team, and we left a trail of up-side-down dogs.

The wind blew a bit of the dog-repellent mist into my eyes once, but
that was a small price to pay.

--
Joy Beeson
joy al beeson at gmail dot com
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/


  #14  
Old July 12th 20, 03:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Weight of tamdem versus two solo bikes

On 7/11/2020 11:45 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:04:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

================================================== ===============

SHOVELIN' COAL

There are those who think the tandem is the instrument sublime
For the serious cycle-tourist, and the man concerned with time.
It has drive and rolls much faster as it gobbles up the track,
But it's quite another matter to the guy who sits in back...shovelin'
coal.

But just look at the advantages with twice the power at hand,
And half the wind resistance as it travels o'er the land.
The weight is less than double. This alone gives peace of mind.
But it's still another matter to the guy who sits behind...shovelin'
coal.

Yes, the man up front is master. It is he who shifts the gears.
He decides when brakes are needed, and on top of this he steers.
He can go the wrong direction and wind up in Timbuktu;
But refuses any protest from the guy who's number two...shovelin' coal.

It's just like a locomotive, with the front man engineer,
He sits back and shouts instructions to the fireman in the rear.
It's the way to run a railroad. With a bike it's not so sweet
To the sweating, swearing fellow on the secondary seat...shovelin' coal.

True, the pilots work the throttles while their partners work the flaps.
They are barely more than slaves -- a society of saps.
Co-pilots do the labor. They are not supposed to feel.
It's likewise with the suckers above the rearward wheel...shovelin'
coal.

His view ahead is blank and to peek would be a sin;
So he can't see where he's going -- only places where he's been.
He would love to lean to starboard when to port they make a turn,
But such pleasure is verboten to the fellow in the stern...shovelin'
coal.

Yet there will be retribution on some future day in hell,
When all tandem frames have melted, and the tandem leaders yell.
In agony they writhe, and some mercy they request;
But the back men just keep doing the thing they've done the
best...shovelin' coal.

================================================== ===========

He didn't mention that the stoker on a tandem also serves as a tail
gunner. I once rode cross country in a group that included a tandem
team, and we left a trail of up-side-down dogs.

The wind blew a bit of the dog-repellent mist into my eyes once, but
that was a small price to pay.


My wife once rode the front seat of our tandem with one of our kids as
the stoker. A dog came out (very rare around here) and my wife managed
to spray both the dog and our kid.

You've got to be careful with that stuff!


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #15  
Old July 12th 20, 04:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Weight of tamdem versus two solo bikes

On 7/12/2020 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/11/2020 11:45 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:04:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

================================================== ===============


SHOVELIN' COAL

There are those who think the tandem is the instrument
sublime
For the serious cycle-tourist, and the man concerned with
time.
It has drive and rolls much faster as it gobbles up the
track,
But it's quite another matter to the guy who sits in
back...shovelin'
coal.

But just look at the advantages with twice the power at
hand,
And half the wind resistance as it travels o'er the land.
The weight is less than double. This alone gives peace of
mind.
But it's still another matter to the guy who sits
behind...shovelin'
coal.

Yes, the man up front is master. It is he who shifts the
gears.
He decides when brakes are needed, and on top of this he
steers.
He can go the wrong direction and wind up in Timbuktu;
But refuses any protest from the guy who's number
two...shovelin' coal.

It's just like a locomotive, with the front man engineer,
He sits back and shouts instructions to the fireman in
the rear.
It's the way to run a railroad. With a bike it's not so
sweet
To the sweating, swearing fellow on the secondary
seat...shovelin' coal.

True, the pilots work the throttles while their partners
work the flaps.
They are barely more than slaves -- a society of saps.
Co-pilots do the labor. They are not supposed to feel.
It's likewise with the suckers above the rearward
wheel...shovelin'
coal.

His view ahead is blank and to peek would be a sin;
So he can't see where he's going -- only places where
he's been.
He would love to lean to starboard when to port they make
a turn,
But such pleasure is verboten to the fellow in the
stern...shovelin'
coal.

Yet there will be retribution on some future day in hell,
When all tandem frames have melted, and the tandem
leaders yell.
In agony they writhe, and some mercy they request;
But the back men just keep doing the thing they've done the
best...shovelin' coal.

================================================== ===========


He didn't mention that the stoker on a tandem also serves
as a tail
gunner. I once rode cross country in a group that
included a tandem
team, and we left a trail of up-side-down dogs.

The wind blew a bit of the dog-repellent mist into my eyes
once, but
that was a small price to pay.


My wife once rode the front seat of our tandem with one of
our kids as the stoker. A dog came out (very rare around
here) and my wife managed to spray both the dog and our kid.

You've got to be careful with that stuff!



An excellent argument against cyclists carrying pistols.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #16  
Old July 12th 20, 05:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 454
Default Weight of tamdem versus two solo bikes

AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2020 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/11/2020 11:45 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:04:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

================================================== ===============


SHOVELIN' COAL

There are those who think the tandem is the instrument
sublime
For the serious cycle-tourist, and the man concerned with
time.
It has drive and rolls much faster as it gobbles up the
track,
But it's quite another matter to the guy who sits in
back...shovelin'
coal.

But just look at the advantages with twice the power at
hand,
And half the wind resistance as it travels o'er the land.
The weight is less than double. This alone gives peace of
mind.
But it's still another matter to the guy who sits
behind...shovelin'
coal.

Yes, the man up front is master. It is he who shifts the
gears.
He decides when brakes are needed, and on top of this he
steers.
He can go the wrong direction and wind up in Timbuktu;
But refuses any protest from the guy who's number
two...shovelin' coal.

It's just like a locomotive, with the front man engineer,
He sits back and shouts instructions to the fireman in
the rear.
It's the way to run a railroad. With a bike it's not so
sweet
To the sweating, swearing fellow on the secondary
seat...shovelin' coal.

True, the pilots work the throttles while their partners
work the flaps.
They are barely more than slaves -- a society of saps.
Co-pilots do the labor. They are not supposed to feel.
It's likewise with the suckers above the rearward
wheel...shovelin'
coal.

His view ahead is blank and to peek would be a sin;
So he can't see where he's going -- only places where
he's been.
He would love to lean to starboard when to port they make
a turn,
But such pleasure is verboten to the fellow in the
stern...shovelin'
coal.

Yet there will be retribution on some future day in hell,
When all tandem frames have melted, and the tandem
leaders yell.
In agony they writhe, and some mercy they request;
But the back men just keep doing the thing they've done the
best...shovelin' coal.

================================================== ===========


He didn't mention that the stoker on a tandem also serves
as a tail
gunner. I once rode cross country in a group that
included a tandem
team, and we left a trail of up-side-down dogs.

The wind blew a bit of the dog-repellent mist into my eyes
once, but
that was a small price to pay.


My wife once rode the front seat of our tandem with one of
our kids as the stoker. A dog came out (very rare around
here) and my wife managed to spray both the dog and our kid.

You've got to be careful with that stuff!


Difficult choices. But it's never to early to teach your stoker to hurl
rocks at misbehaving dogs and not fall off the seat.

An excellent argument against cyclists carrying pistols.


Should stoker kids be restricted to throwing flash-bang toys? I don't know.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2181552/When-grenade-fishing-goes-terribly-terribly-wrong.html

  #17  
Old July 12th 20, 06:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
bob prohaska
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 102
Default Weight of tamdem versus two solo bikes

Sepp Ruf wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2020 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/11/2020 11:45 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:04:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

================================================== ===============


SHOVELIN' COAL

There are those who think the tandem is the instrument
sublime
For the serious cycle-tourist, and the man concerned with
time.
It has drive and rolls much faster as it gobbles up the
track,
But it's quite another matter to the guy who sits in
back...shovelin'
coal.

But just look at the advantages with twice the power at
hand,
And half the wind resistance as it travels o'er the land.
The weight is less than double. This alone gives peace of
mind.
But it's still another matter to the guy who sits
behind...shovelin'
coal.

Yes, the man up front is master. It is he who shifts the
gears.
He decides when brakes are needed, and on top of this he
steers.
He can go the wrong direction and wind up in Timbuktu;
But refuses any protest from the guy who's number
two...shovelin' coal.

It's just like a locomotive, with the front man engineer,
He sits back and shouts instructions to the fireman in
the rear.
It's the way to run a railroad. With a bike it's not so
sweet
To the sweating, swearing fellow on the secondary
seat...shovelin' coal.

True, the pilots work the throttles while their partners
work the flaps.
They are barely more than slaves -- a society of saps.
Co-pilots do the labor. They are not supposed to feel.
It's likewise with the suckers above the rearward
wheel...shovelin'
coal.

His view ahead is blank and to peek would be a sin;
So he can't see where he's going -- only places where
he's been.
He would love to lean to starboard when to port they make
a turn,
But such pleasure is verboten to the fellow in the
stern...shovelin'
coal.

Yet there will be retribution on some future day in hell,
When all tandem frames have melted, and the tandem
leaders yell.
In agony they writhe, and some mercy they request;
But the back men just keep doing the thing they've done the
best...shovelin' coal.

================================================== ===========


He didn't mention that the stoker on a tandem also serves
as a tail
gunner. I once rode cross country in a group that
included a tandem
team, and we left a trail of up-side-down dogs.

The wind blew a bit of the dog-repellent mist into my eyes
once, but
that was a small price to pay.

My wife once rode the front seat of our tandem with one of
our kids as the stoker. A dog came out (very rare around
here) and my wife managed to spray both the dog and our kid.

You've got to be careful with that stuff!


Difficult choices. But it's never to early to teach your stoker to hurl
rocks at misbehaving dogs and not fall off the seat.

An excellent argument against cyclists carrying pistols.


Should stoker kids be restricted to throwing flash-bang toys? I don't know.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2181552/When-grenade-fishing-goes-terribly-terribly-wrong.html


Wouldn't a ballasted swagger stick be more useful? At least it
allows multiple defensive attempts.

bob prohaska

  #18  
Old July 12th 20, 07:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default Weight of tamdem versus two solo bikes

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 1:09:11 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
Sepp Ruf wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2020 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:



My wife once rode the front seat of our tandem with one of
our kids as the stoker. A dog came out (very rare around
here) and my wife managed to spray both the dog and our kid.

You've got to be careful with that stuff!


Difficult choices. But it's never to early to teach your stoker to hurl
rocks at misbehaving dogs and not fall off the seat.

An excellent argument against cyclists carrying pistols.


Should stoker kids be restricted to throwing flash-bang toys? I don't know.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2181552/When-grenade-fishing-goes-terribly-terribly-wrong.html


Wouldn't a ballasted swagger stick be more useful? At least it
allows multiple defensive attempts.


Back when we lived in the southern U.S. and dogs were a real and
constant problem, I researched tactics. _Bicycling!_ magazine(in its
exclamation point days) had articles on tactics. Some advocated
swinging pumps, or carrying a car's telescoping radio antenna to
extend and swing.

Others pointed out that's likely to throw the rider off balance,
perhaps get in the spokes and cause a crash, and is unlikely to deter
the dog because of limited range.

This is yet another situation where (perhaps hypothetical) benefits
need to be compared with detriments. Dog deterrents should work
against dogs but not harm riders. IME, "Halt!" spray makes more
sense than pistols or sticks.

- Frank Krygowski

  #19  
Old July 14th 20, 01:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 840
Default Weight of tamdem versus two solo bikes

On 7/12/2020 11:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 1:09:11 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
Sepp Ruf wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2020 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:



My wife once rode the front seat of our tandem with one of
our kids as the stoker. A dog came out (very rare around
here) and my wife managed to spray both the dog and our kid.

You've got to be careful with that stuff!

Difficult choices. But it's never to early to teach your stoker to hurl
rocks at misbehaving dogs and not fall off the seat.

An excellent argument against cyclists carrying pistols.

Should stoker kids be restricted to throwing flash-bang toys? I don't know.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2181552/When-grenade-fishing-goes-terribly-terribly-wrong.html


Wouldn't a ballasted swagger stick be more useful? At least it
allows multiple defensive attempts.


Back when we lived in the southern U.S. and dogs were a real and
constant problem, I researched tactics. _Bicycling!_ magazine(in its
exclamation point days) had articles on tactics. Some advocated
swinging pumps, or carrying a car's telescoping radio antenna to
extend and swing.

Others pointed out that's likely to throw the rider off balance,
perhaps get in the spokes and cause a crash, and is unlikely to deter
the dog because of limited range.

This is yet another situation where (perhaps hypothetical) benefits
need to be compared with detriments. Dog deterrents should work
against dogs but not harm riders. IME, "Halt!" spray makes more
sense than pistols or sticks.

- Frank Krygowski


Suddenly pointing at the dog when it gets close and shouting "Go Home!"
is fairly effective for me. I can shout quite loudly.

Last week I had a more persistent case (farmhouse on remote gravel
road), and I went to "Stage 2" deterrents; wait 'til they get close and
spray 'em with a water bottle.

I hadn't done that in a long while, and I was surprised at how
effectively it stopped the dog in his tracks - and I don't think I even
hit him. I think spraying up their nose is very effective if your aim
is good enough. Mine usually isn't. Not sure how much a dissolved
electrolyte fizzy tablet would sting, if at all.

This method is problematic if your water supply is low.

Mark J.
  #20  
Old July 14th 20, 02:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Weight of tamdem versus two solo bikes

On 7/13/2020 8:21 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 7/12/2020 11:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 1:09:11 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
Sepp Ruf wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2020 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:


My wife once rode the front seat of our tandem with one of
our kids as the stoker. A dog came out (very rare around
here) and my wife managed to spray both the dog and our kid.

You've got to be careful with that stuff!

Difficult choices.Â* But it's never to early to teach your stoker to
hurl
rocks at misbehaving dogs and not fall off the seat.

An excellent argument against cyclists carrying pistols.

Should stoker kids be restricted to throwing flash-bang toys? I
don't know.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2181552/When-grenade-fishing-goes-terribly-terribly-wrong.html



Wouldn't a ballasted swagger stick be more useful? At least it
allows multiple defensive attempts.


Back when we lived in the southern U.S. and dogs were a real and
constant problem, I researched tactics. _Bicycling!_ magazine(in its
exclamation point days) had articles on tactics. Some advocated
swinging pumps, or carrying a car's telescoping radio antenna to
extend and swing.

Others pointed out that's likely to throw the rider off balance,
perhaps get in the spokes and cause a crash, and is unlikely to deter
the dog because of limited range.

This is yet another situation where (perhaps hypothetical) benefits
need to be compared with detriments. Dog deterrents should work
against dogs but not harm riders. IME, "Halt!" spray makes more
sense than pistols or sticks.

- Frank Krygowski


Suddenly pointing at the dog when it gets close and shouting "Go Home!"
is fairly effective for me.Â* I can shout quite loudly.

Last week I had a more persistent case (farmhouse on remote gravel
road), and I went to "Stage 2" deterrents; wait 'til they get close and
spray 'em with a water bottle.

I hadn't done that in a long while, and I was surprised at how
effectively it stopped the dog in his tracks - and I don't think I even
hit him.Â* I think spraying up their nose is very effective if your aim
is good enough. Mine usually isn't.Â* Not sure how much a dissolved
electrolyte fizzy tablet would sting, if at all.

This method is problematic if your water supply is low.


I learned to start my aggressive defense before dogs even think of
chasing. It consists of staring or glaring at a dog as soon as I see it.
I've read that between dogs, a glare is the first sign of dominance.
Maybe that's why a surprising percentage of dogs will look at me as I
approach with my glare, then quickly turn away as if they just noticed a
squirrel.

My procedure is this: Glare; if necessary, yell and grab Halt!; if
necessary, spray; if necessary, turn around and spray again; repeat as
needed, including a day or two later until the dog is trained.

In the bad old Southern days, throwing rocks came before Halt! because
the dogs were much more common and vicious. In Ohio, I haven't needed to
do that more than a few times in 40 years.


--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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