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#51
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Pedal axle extenders in Europe
Phil W Lee wrote:
OK, for the pedantic: Pedal reflectors complying with Schedule 20 Part 1 of the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 are mandatory on pedal cycles used during the hours of darkness on the public highway in the UK, unless the pedal cycle was manufactured before 1st October 1985. Thanks Phil, I never realised that - I thought the legislation was retrospective. As nearly all my cycles are pre-1985 it's useful to know. If (optionally) fitted to pedal cycles manufactured before that date (s20), they must still comply with the requirements laid down in the schedule. To get even more obscure, what about pre-1985 bikes fitted with pedal reflectors as original equipment? If I remember correctly, some pedal reflectors were made pre-war when strictly speaking, they were illegal. The law was later changed to /permit/ their use without making them compulsory, later still they were made compulsory. So, there are probably a number about with reflectors that don't conform to any standard. -- Andrew |
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#52
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Pedal axle extenders in Europe
On 1 July, 19:39, Naqerj wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote: OK, for the pedantic: Pedal reflectors complying with Schedule 20 Part 1 of the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 are mandatory on pedal cycles used during the hours of darkness on the public highway in the UK, unless the pedal cycle was manufactured before 1st October 1985. Thanks Phil, I never realised that - I thought the legislation was retrospective. *As nearly all my cycles are pre-1985 it's useful to know. For bikes first constructed between 1985 and 1989, the legislation does appear tpo be retrospective. From 1985 custom racing bikes were excluded from the pedal reflector legislation, yet from Feb 1989, supposedly all bikes from 1985 have to have pedal reflectors. It does not tally up! If (optionally) fitted to pedal cycles manufactured before that date (s20), they must still comply with the requirements laid down in the schedule. To get even more obscure, what about pre-1985 bikes fitted with pedal reflectors as original equipment? *If I remember correctly, some pedal reflectors were made pre-war when strictly speaking, they were illegal. * The law was later changed to /permit/ their use without making them compulsory, later still they were made compulsory. *So, there are probably a number about with reflectors that don't conform to any standard. -- Andrew |
#53
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Pedal axle extenders in Europe
Naqerj wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote: OK, for the pedantic: Pedal reflectors complying with Schedule 20 Part 1 of the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 are mandatory on pedal cycles used during the hours of darkness on the public highway in the UK, unless the pedal cycle was manufactured before 1st October 1985. Thanks Phil, I never realised that - I thought the legislation was retrospective. As nearly all my cycles are pre-1985 it's useful to know. If (optionally) fitted to pedal cycles manufactured before that date (s20), they must still comply with the requirements laid down in the schedule. To get even more obscure, what about pre-1985 bikes fitted with pedal reflectors as original equipment? If I remember correctly, some pedal reflectors were made pre-war when strictly speaking, they were illegal. The law was later changed to /permit/ their use without making them compulsory, later still they were made compulsory. So, there are probably a number about with reflectors that don't conform to any standard. By "pre-war" do you mean "Before Falklands"? The inception of pedal reflectors IIRC was the CPSC regulation of 1974. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#54
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Pedal axle extenders in Europe
On Jul 1, 12:37*pm, thirty-six wrote:
On 1 July, 03:33, Nate Nagel wrote: On 06/30/2010 09:56 PM, Clive George wrote: On 01/07/2010 02:54, Nate Nagel wrote: On 06/30/2010 09:32 PM, Barry wrote: How does one address the situation of, say, using road-type clipless pedals (e.g. Time, Look, SPD-SL, etc.) after dark? AFAIK the only clipless pedals able to be fitted with reflectors are the kind that we were discussing, that is, single-sided SPDs. Do shoes with reflective material meet the spec? I'm guessing no... You can get platforms to clip into double-sided spds, and indeed they seem to come with them. I think some single-sided road pedals can be fitted with legal reflectors, but they're rare. I think they mount under the axle. Shimano offers reflectors for its SPD-SL pedals: http://tinyurl.com/sm-pd58 Learn something new, etc. I don't think it needs to be said (but I will anyway) that those appear that they would be positively embarassing to any self-respecting roadie, not to mention that they look like they'd dramatically increase the possibility of a pedal strike to one used to the same pedals without the reflectors... I'ma go out on a limb and guess that they're not particularly popular? Can you see them for sale anywhere? Question is, is it the lack of supply causing the lack of demand, or the other way round? I'm tempted to agree with you and say the latter. Well, since my state of residence I do not believe even requires pedal reflectors (going off memory, I think the only requirements are headlight and rear reflector) the answer is obviously "no." Obviously there are far better alternatives for those wishing to have pedal-area reflectivity, ankle bands and reflective tape being the two that come immediately to mind. And when I remember, I do carry, and use, reflective bands. *My lights are good and I have backups. I leave mine strapped around my rack, that way when I need them, they're right there. nate |
#55
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Pedal axle extenders in Europe
N8N wrote:
On Jul 1, 12:37 pm, thirty-six wrote: On 1 July, 03:33, Nate Nagel wrote: On 06/30/2010 09:56 PM, Clive George wrote: On 01/07/2010 02:54, Nate Nagel wrote: On 06/30/2010 09:32 PM, Barry wrote: How does one address the situation of, say, using road-type clipless pedals (e.g. Time, Look, SPD-SL, etc.) after dark? AFAIK the only clipless pedals able to be fitted with reflectors are the kind that we were discussing, that is, single-sided SPDs. Do shoes with reflective material meet the spec? I'm guessing no... You can get platforms to clip into double-sided spds, and indeed they seem to come with them. I think some single-sided road pedals can be fitted with legal reflectors, but they're rare. I think they mount under the axle. Shimano offers reflectors for its SPD-SL pedals: http://tinyurl.com/sm-pd58 Learn something new, etc. I don't think it needs to be said (but I will anyway) that those appear that they would be positively embarassing to any self-respecting roadie, not to mention that they look like they'd dramatically increase the possibility of a pedal strike to one used to the same pedals without the reflectors... I'ma go out on a limb and guess that they're not particularly popular? Can you see them for sale anywhere? Question is, is it the lack of supply causing the lack of demand, or the other way round? I'm tempted to agree with you and say the latter. Well, since my state of residence I do not believe even requires pedal reflectors (going off memory, I think the only requirements are headlight and rear reflector) the answer is obviously "no." Obviously there are far better alternatives for those wishing to have pedal-area reflectivity, ankle bands and reflective tape being the two that come immediately to mind. And when I remember, I do carry, and use, reflective bands. My lights are good and I have backups. I leave mine strapped around my rack, that way when I need them, they're right there. nate These days the reflective tape is so good and so cheap I think it makes sense to simply use it generously in places where solid reflectors might have been used before as well as others where they couldn't. I've used and seen it used on rear fenders and spokes (traditional spots), but also on shoes, helmets, cranks, rims and frames. Why not? It weighs and costs virtually nothing. I bought a big roll from an industrial supply house & slap it everywhere. |
#56
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Pedal axle extenders in Europe
On 1 July, 21:29, Peter Cole wrote:
N8N wrote: On Jul 1, 12:37 pm, thirty-six wrote: On 1 July, 03:33, Nate Nagel wrote: On 06/30/2010 09:56 PM, Clive George wrote: On 01/07/2010 02:54, Nate Nagel wrote: On 06/30/2010 09:32 PM, Barry wrote: How does one address the situation of, say, using road-type clipless pedals (e.g. Time, Look, SPD-SL, etc.) after dark? AFAIK the only clipless pedals able to be fitted with reflectors are the kind that we were discussing, that is, single-sided SPDs. Do shoes with reflective material meet the spec? I'm guessing no... You can get platforms to clip into double-sided spds, and indeed they seem to come with them. I think some single-sided road pedals can be fitted with legal reflectors, but they're rare. I think they mount under the axle. Shimano offers reflectors for its SPD-SL pedals: http://tinyurl.com/sm-pd58 Learn something new, etc. I don't think it needs to be said (but I will anyway) that those appear that they would be positively embarassing to any self-respecting roadie, not to mention that they look like they'd dramatically increase the possibility of a pedal strike to one used to the same pedals without the reflectors... I'ma go out on a limb and guess that they're not particularly popular? Can you see them for sale anywhere? Question is, is it the lack of supply causing the lack of demand, or the other way round? I'm tempted to agree with you and say the latter. Well, since my state of residence I do not believe even requires pedal reflectors (going off memory, I think the only requirements are headlight and rear reflector) the answer is obviously "no." Obviously there are far better alternatives for those wishing to have pedal-area reflectivity, ankle bands and reflective tape being the two that come immediately to mind. And when I remember, I do carry, and use, reflective bands. *My lights are good and I have backups. I leave mine strapped around my rack, that way when I need them, they're right there. nate These days the reflective tape is so good and so cheap Still, there are different amounts of relectivity, some of the highest are too bright for large areas on vehicles. I think it makes sense to simply use it generously in places where solid reflectors might have been used before as well as others where they couldn't. I've used and seen it used on rear fenders and spokes (traditional spots), but also on shoes, helmets, cranks, rims and frames. Why not? Because any colour other than red will cause some deficiency in the night vision of a following road user. Vast amounts of red in themselves can cause a sort of blindness. It weighs and costs virtually nothing. I bought a big roll from an industrial supply house & slap it everywhere. What colour? |
#57
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Pedal axle extenders in Europe
On 01 Jul 2010 21:46:26 GMT, Jobst Brandt wrote:
Tell it to Shimano, who year for year have reduced the area of white "Scotchlite" heel cup on their shoes, as though it were a hazard. Scotchlite is this: expensive. Never assume malice when influence of accountants might explain the observed facts... Guy -- http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/ The usenet price promise: all opinions offered in newsgroups are guaranteed to be worth the price paid. |
#58
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Pedal axle extenders in Europe
On 07/01/2010 04:29 PM, Peter Cole wrote:
N8N wrote: On Jul 1, 12:37 pm, thirty-six wrote: On 1 July, 03:33, Nate Nagel wrote: On 06/30/2010 09:56 PM, Clive George wrote: On 01/07/2010 02:54, Nate Nagel wrote: On 06/30/2010 09:32 PM, Barry wrote: How does one address the situation of, say, using road-type clipless pedals (e.g. Time, Look, SPD-SL, etc.) after dark? AFAIK the only clipless pedals able to be fitted with reflectors are the kind that we were discussing, that is, single-sided SPDs. Do shoes with reflective material meet the spec? I'm guessing no... You can get platforms to clip into double-sided spds, and indeed they seem to come with them. I think some single-sided road pedals can be fitted with legal reflectors, but they're rare. I think they mount under the axle. Shimano offers reflectors for its SPD-SL pedals: http://tinyurl.com/sm-pd58 Learn something new, etc. I don't think it needs to be said (but I will anyway) that those appear that they would be positively embarassing to any self-respecting roadie, not to mention that they look like they'd dramatically increase the possibility of a pedal strike to one used to the same pedals without the reflectors... I'ma go out on a limb and guess that they're not particularly popular? Can you see them for sale anywhere? Question is, is it the lack of supply causing the lack of demand, or the other way round? I'm tempted to agree with you and say the latter. Well, since my state of residence I do not believe even requires pedal reflectors (going off memory, I think the only requirements are headlight and rear reflector) the answer is obviously "no." Obviously there are far better alternatives for those wishing to have pedal-area reflectivity, ankle bands and reflective tape being the two that come immediately to mind. And when I remember, I do carry, and use, reflective bands. My lights are good and I have backups. I leave mine strapped around my rack, that way when I need them, they're right there. nate These days the reflective tape is so good and so cheap I think it makes sense to simply use it generously in places where solid reflectors might have been used before as well as others where they couldn't. I've used and seen it used on rear fenders and spokes (traditional spots), but also on shoes, helmets, cranks, rims and frames. Why not? It weighs and costs virtually nothing. I bought a big roll from an industrial supply house & slap it everywhere. I've done the same, but the ankle straps are handy if, say, I just want to ride up to the library to get some books (~1 mile or so) and I'm wearing long pants. It's as much as a convenience thing for keeping my pants clean as it is for the reflective. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
#59
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Pedal axle extenders in Europe
Jobst Brandt wrote:
Tell it to Shimano, who year for year have reduced the area of white "Scotchlite" heel cup on their shoes, as though it were a hazard. Just zis Guy, you know? wrote: Scotchlite is this: expensive. Never assume malice when influence of accountants might explain the observed facts... Relatively, yes. Specifically, maybe not so much. A legband with USA-made 3M brand Reflexite 12mm x 240mm with sewn-in-USA Velcro brand USA-made fastener material, as a finished consumer product, retails at $2.95. (Reflexite is more expensive, and more effective, than Scotchlite). The reflective area of one legband is greater than that of any pair of cycling shoes I can recall. How significant is another cm or two of reflective trim to a cycling shoe's price? I assume Shimano's vendor would source Asian reflective material at some rate lower than USA retail and the sewing step is already priced in. I don't see the cost as compelling. I could be wrong. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#60
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Pedal axle extenders in Europe
On 07/01/2010 09:57 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
considered Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:26:39 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write: On 1 July, 19:39, wrote: Phil W Lee wrote: OK, for the pedantic: Pedal reflectors complying with Schedule 20 Part 1 of the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 are mandatory on pedal cycles used during the hours of darkness on the public highway in the UK, unless the pedal cycle was manufactured before 1st October 1985. Thanks Phil, I never realised that - I thought the legislation was retrospective. As nearly all my cycles are pre-1985 it's useful to know. For bikes first constructed between 1985 and 1989, the legislation does appear tpo be retrospective. From 1985 custom racing bikes were excluded from the pedal reflector legislation, yet from Feb 1989, supposedly all bikes from 1985 have to have pedal reflectors. It does not tally up! It does when you realise that those custom racing bikes were only legal (on public roads) for daytime use - and I don't see that as inconsistent. I'd hardly expect the track bikes used on a velodrome, or on semi-closed roads in the Tour of Britain to be fitted with pedal reflectors - or to be road legal in many other respects, so it hardly makes sense to insist on their being sold with pedal reflectors when they don't necessarily even have brakes. Apparently the "hipster" "track bike" "scene" has come to DC, I have seen people tooling around on brakeless fixies even here. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
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