Noise from new Sunrace cassette

On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 08:02:57 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-27 17:02, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 16:14:34 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-27 15:56, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:16:19 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-26 19:29, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 12:28:09 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-25 17:56, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


I can't get a HG cassette cog to fit on a HG freehub body if I flip
the cog. The notches are not symmetrical.


After a little dance with a Dremel you can.

A new 10 speed free hub is less then $20. Spreading the rear fork is a
trivial task, re dishing a wheel, that is reasonably true, is simple
...


In my case, 10-speed with friction shifters would not be that great. Of
course, I could buy a new bike ...

Interesting. One of my bikes has a ten speed cassette and I shift it
with a friction down tube shifter with no problems.


Sure, I can do that as well. It's just not very comfortable without
indexing, especially like yesterday where I rode along a busy road with
lots of noise, in the dark. So you could be going miles with a slightly
out of trim derailer and not hear it. Not healthy for the chain. That
chance is lower the wider the chain is.

Interesting comment. I ride in what is usually rated as the 2nd most
chaotic traffic in the world with a 10 speed cassette and down tube
friction shifters with no problems whatsoever.


Maybe you have musical ears or fingers. I don't. Also, at night one
can't look through between the legs to see if it's nicely lined up. In
the olden days when everyone had friction shifters I also saw lots of
riders tooling along with the chain clearly askew, sometimes making an
awful noise. They just didn't care.

Strange, but I never seem to have all the problems that you do. I've
been using friction shifters off and on for at least 20 years and
never had problems with them.

cheers,

John B.

John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:20:01 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 28/11/2018 12:39 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-28 08:16, Duane wrote:
On 28/11/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-27 16:59, John B. slocomb wrote:

[...]


The problem, at least my problem, with spinning is that without a
meter to tell you how fast you are pedaling it is pretty hard to
maintain a constant spin rate. One could, I suppose, calculate the
bike speed in some gear at some pedal rate and then use the
speedometer to try and maintain a constant pedal rate. Or do what I
did and convert a speedometer to a rev meter.


Or go all out and have one speedometer with a spoke sensor and a 2nd
one mounted next to it with a sensor near the inner chain ring. With a
cheap set such as the Bell 100 that should cost less than $30 for both.


Or just do what most people do and buy a bike computer with speed and
cadence.Â* Cateye's aren't that expensive.Â* Even a wireless one is
probably 70 bucks CA.


70 bucks buys me the ingredients for brewing a 10 gallon batch of IPA :-)

I am not very interested in cadence data, others might be. While I am
trying to spin more at least under heavy load (one reason for this
cassette hack) I don't care much about it on the longhaul routes in the
valley. That's where I'll likely use the new "overdrives" a lot.



I was replying to whomever wrote "Or go all out and have one speeometer..."

My first smart phone is on the way and I am wondering whether that
could be pressed into such service, with one Bluetooth transmitter at
the spokes and another near the inner chain ring. Then maybe run
Strava on top of that. Of course, battery runtime is a concern for
all-day rides but in my case I could tie it into the large on-board
lighting battery with a USB converter. Or press a dynamo into service.


I think WAHOO makes bluetooth speed and cadence sensors.Â* The other
option is to get the ant+ versions and then an ant+ dongle for your
phone.


Aha, thanks, I'll have to research that. I have copied this into the
wiki file for the new phone so I remember what to look for.

The phone would allow me to switch the same "cycling computation
machine" between MTB and road bike, it wouldn't lose mileage totals upon
battery changes and with its 5" screen I could keep more data on the
display instead of just speed and time.


I've tried using my phone as a bike computer. I have several apps that
work but the problem is that the iPhone display isn't very legible in
direct sunlight. I received a Garmin for a present since then and that
works fine. Today you can buy head units to mount on your bar (Wahoo
also I think) that connect to your phone and give you an lcd display.

I can see it now. The modern cyclist... head down, arse in the air,
staring at his smart phone... But Officer I was looking at my
telephone.

cheers,

John B.




Lots of people use Garmins. Phone apps aren’t much different.

--
duane

On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 13:36:11 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 5:56:48 PM UTC-6, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:16:19 -0800, Joerg

In my case, 10-speed with friction shifters would not be that great. Of
course, I could buy a new bike ...

Interesting. One of my bikes has a ten speed cassette and I shift it
with a friction down tube shifter with no problems.

Kind of weird, but maybe friction with many gears (10) works better than friction with old time 5 speed freewheels. You have to move the lever less distance to change gears. Its easier to shift 10 speed than 5 speed with friction shifters.

I can't remember exactly, but I certainly have never had much, if any,
problems with using any sort of shifter. The friction shift lever
undoubtedly moves a lesser distance with more gears but I can't say
that I notice it. You just reach down and move the lever about "that
much" and you are in the next gear.


cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 23:32:52 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:20:01 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 28/11/2018 12:39 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-28 08:16, Duane wrote:
On 28/11/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-27 16:59, John B. slocomb wrote:

[...]


The problem, at least my problem, with spinning is that without a
meter to tell you how fast you are pedaling it is pretty hard to
maintain a constant spin rate. One could, I suppose, calculate the
bike speed in some gear at some pedal rate and then use the
speedometer to try and maintain a constant pedal rate. Or do what I
did and convert a speedometer to a rev meter.


Or go all out and have one speedometer with a spoke sensor and a 2nd
one mounted next to it with a sensor near the inner chain ring. With a
cheap set such as the Bell 100 that should cost less than $30 for both.


Or just do what most people do and buy a bike computer with speed and
cadence.* Cateye's aren't that expensive.* Even a wireless one is
probably 70 bucks CA.


70 bucks buys me the ingredients for brewing a 10 gallon batch of IPA :-)

I am not very interested in cadence data, others might be. While I am
trying to spin more at least under heavy load (one reason for this
cassette hack) I don't care much about it on the longhaul routes in the
valley. That's where I'll likely use the new "overdrives" a lot.



I was replying to whomever wrote "Or go all out and have one speeometer..."

My first smart phone is on the way and I am wondering whether that
could be pressed into such service, with one Bluetooth transmitter at
the spokes and another near the inner chain ring. Then maybe run
Strava on top of that. Of course, battery runtime is a concern for
all-day rides but in my case I could tie it into the large on-board
lighting battery with a USB converter. Or press a dynamo into service.


I think WAHOO makes bluetooth speed and cadence sensors.* The other
option is to get the ant+ versions and then an ant+ dongle for your
phone.


Aha, thanks, I'll have to research that. I have copied this into the
wiki file for the new phone so I remember what to look for.

The phone would allow me to switch the same "cycling computation
machine" between MTB and road bike, it wouldn't lose mileage totals upon
battery changes and with its 5" screen I could keep more data on the
display instead of just speed and time.


I've tried using my phone as a bike computer. I have several apps that
work but the problem is that the iPhone display isn't very legible in
direct sunlight. I received a Garmin for a present since then and that
works fine. Today you can buy head units to mount on your bar (Wahoo
also I think) that connect to your phone and give you an lcd display.

I can see it now. The modern cyclist... head down, arse in the air,
staring at his smart phone... But Officer I was looking at my
telephone.

cheers,

John B.




Lots of people use Garmins. Phone apps aren’t much different.

I never heard a Garmin user say something like, "Oh Officer, but I was
texting" :-)


cheers,

John B.

John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 23:32:52 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:20:01 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 28/11/2018 12:39 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-28 08:16, Duane wrote:
On 28/11/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-27 16:59, John B. slocomb wrote:

[...]


The problem, at least my problem, with spinning is that without a
meter to tell you how fast you are pedaling it is pretty hard to
maintain a constant spin rate. One could, I suppose, calculate the
bike speed in some gear at some pedal rate and then use the
speedometer to try and maintain a constant pedal rate. Or do what I
did and convert a speedometer to a rev meter.


Or go all out and have one speedometer with a spoke sensor and a 2nd
one mounted next to it with a sensor near the inner chain ring. With a
cheap set such as the Bell 100 that should cost less than $30 for both.


Or just do what most people do and buy a bike computer with speed and
cadence.* Cateye's aren't that expensive.* Even a wireless one is
probably 70 bucks CA.


70 bucks buys me the ingredients for brewing a 10 gallon batch of IPA :-)

I am not very interested in cadence data, others might be. While I am
trying to spin more at least under heavy load (one reason for this
cassette hack) I don't care much about it on the longhaul routes in the
valley. That's where I'll likely use the new "overdrives" a lot.



I was replying to whomever wrote "Or go all out and have one speeometer..."

My first smart phone is on the way and I am wondering whether that
could be pressed into such service, with one Bluetooth transmitter at
the spokes and another near the inner chain ring. Then maybe run
Strava on top of that. Of course, battery runtime is a concern for
all-day rides but in my case I could tie it into the large on-board
lighting battery with a USB converter. Or press a dynamo into service.


I think WAHOO makes bluetooth speed and cadence sensors.* The other
option is to get the ant+ versions and then an ant+ dongle for your
phone.


Aha, thanks, I'll have to research that. I have copied this into the
wiki file for the new phone so I remember what to look for.

The phone would allow me to switch the same "cycling computation
machine" between MTB and road bike, it wouldn't lose mileage totals upon
battery changes and with its 5" screen I could keep more data on the
display instead of just speed and time.


I've tried using my phone as a bike computer. I have several apps that
work but the problem is that the iPhone display isn't very legible in
direct sunlight. I received a Garmin for a present since then and that
works fine. Today you can buy head units to mount on your bar (Wahoo
also I think) that connect to your phone and give you an lcd display.

I can see it now. The modern cyclist... head down, arse in the air,
staring at his smart phone... But Officer I was looking at my
telephone.

cheers,

John B.




Lots of people use Garmins. Phone apps aren’t much different.

I never heard a Garmin user say something like, "Oh Officer, but I was
texting" :-)


cheers,

John B.




Your leaps of logic are hard to follow.

--
duane

AMuzi wrote:
On 11/28/2018 10:24 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/28/2018 3:52 AM, James wrote:
On 28/11/18 3:27 pm, Ralph Barone wrote:


1 hp = 746 W, which is within the range of a track cyclist.

There are plenty of road cyclists who can produce 500W for
5 minutes, and certainly 746 W for shorter times.

But I think Andrew is right with his statement "No matter
what gear, we cannot raise 33,000lb one foot in one minute."

To raise 33,000 pounds you'd need extreme gear reduction,
and with that gear reduction would come losses in
efficiency. I think the resulting internal friction would
make Andrew's specific task impossible.


Right but that power (1HP or 746W, disregarding gearing or
mechanical losses) is way beyond your average human.


When did we lower the bar to "average"?

On 11/28/2018 4:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/28/2018 4:46 PM, AMuzi wrote:


Having test ridden customers' bikes with friction eight,
nine, ten it's not as difficult as you might imagine.
Modern chain and tooth shapes give them snappier shifts
than some classic straight-tooth sprockets with half as
many choices.

The chain and tooth shape developments have surely helped.
Another, I think, has been derailleur design. As I
understand and remember it, SunTour's slant parallelogram
was a very significant step forward. Then Shimano figured
out how to balance the mount spring and the tension spring
to keep idler-to-sprocket distance much more consistent.
When SunTour's patent expired, they added that trick. That,
plus another minor trick or three, have made index shifting
workable and friction shifting much easier.

There was a time when I rode with plastic Simplex shifters
of questionable geometry and rigidity, old-style cables that
were often badly lubricated, friction levers whose friction
adjustments wouldn't stay put, trying to convince a chain
with square plates to jump cogs with no provisions for
lateral chain motion. Young 'uns have no idea how tough we
were.


Credit for the innovation of balanced top & bottom spring
(whereby the changer moves back in the small ring and
forward when on the big ring) is to the great Lucien Juy.
Shimano adopted the system after his Simplex patents expired.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/28/2018 6:58 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 11/28/2018 10:24 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/28/2018 3:52 AM, James wrote:
On 28/11/18 3:27 pm, Ralph Barone wrote:


1 hp = 746 W, which is within the range of a track cyclist.

There are plenty of road cyclists who can produce 500W for
5 minutes, and certainly 746 W for shorter times.

But I think Andrew is right with his statement "No matter
what gear, we cannot raise 33,000lb one foot in one minute."

To raise 33,000 pounds you'd need extreme gear reduction,
and with that gear reduction would come losses in
efficiency. I think the resulting internal friction would
make Andrew's specific task impossible.


Right but that power (1HP or 746W, disregarding gearing or
mechanical losses) is way beyond your average human.


When did we lower the bar to "average"?


Good point. That is indeed a low bar.

I was thinking of us RBT denizens (an exceptional lot by any
measure!)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 00:55:57 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 23:32:52 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:20:01 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 28/11/2018 12:39 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-28 08:16, Duane wrote:
On 28/11/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-27 16:59, John B. slocomb wrote:

[...]


The problem, at least my problem, with spinning is that without a
meter to tell you how fast you are pedaling it is pretty hard to
maintain a constant spin rate. One could, I suppose, calculate the
bike speed in some gear at some pedal rate and then use the
speedometer to try and maintain a constant pedal rate. Or do what I
did and convert a speedometer to a rev meter.


Or go all out and have one speedometer with a spoke sensor and a 2nd
one mounted next to it with a sensor near the inner chain ring. With a
cheap set such as the Bell 100 that should cost less than $30 for both.


Or just do what most people do and buy a bike computer with speed and
cadence.* Cateye's aren't that expensive.* Even a wireless one is
probably 70 bucks CA.


70 bucks buys me the ingredients for brewing a 10 gallon batch of IPA :-)

I am not very interested in cadence data, others might be. While I am
trying to spin more at least under heavy load (one reason for this
cassette hack) I don't care much about it on the longhaul routes in the
valley. That's where I'll likely use the new "overdrives" a lot.



I was replying to whomever wrote "Or go all out and have one speeometer..."

My first smart phone is on the way and I am wondering whether that
could be pressed into such service, with one Bluetooth transmitter at
the spokes and another near the inner chain ring. Then maybe run
Strava on top of that. Of course, battery runtime is a concern for
all-day rides but in my case I could tie it into the large on-board
lighting battery with a USB converter. Or press a dynamo into service.


I think WAHOO makes bluetooth speed and cadence sensors.* The other
option is to get the ant+ versions and then an ant+ dongle for your
phone.


Aha, thanks, I'll have to research that. I have copied this into the
wiki file for the new phone so I remember what to look for.

The phone would allow me to switch the same "cycling computation
machine" between MTB and road bike, it wouldn't lose mileage totals upon
battery changes and with its 5" screen I could keep more data on the
display instead of just speed and time.


I've tried using my phone as a bike computer. I have several apps that
work but the problem is that the iPhone display isn't very legible in
direct sunlight. I received a Garmin for a present since then and that
works fine. Today you can buy head units to mount on your bar (Wahoo
also I think) that connect to your phone and give you an lcd display.

I can see it now. The modern cyclist... head down, arse in the air,
staring at his smart phone... But Officer I was looking at my
telephone.

cheers,

John B.




Lots of people use Garmins. Phone apps aren’t much different.

I never heard a Garmin user say something like, "Oh Officer, but I was
texting" :-)


cheers,

John B.




Your leaps of logic are hard to follow.

Simple. The fewer things that you have to distract you the more likely
you are to see what is happening around you :-)

cheers,

John B.

John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 08:02:57 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-27 17:02, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 16:14:34 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-27 15:56, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:16:19 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-26 19:29, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 12:28:09 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-25 17:56, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


I can't get a HG cassette cog to fit on a HG freehub body if I flip
the cog. The notches are not symmetrical.


After a little dance with a Dremel you can.

A new 10 speed free hub is less then $20. Spreading the rear fork is a
trivial task, re dishing a wheel, that is reasonably true, is simple
...


In my case, 10-speed with friction shifters would not be that great. Of
course, I could buy a new bike ...

Interesting. One of my bikes has a ten speed cassette and I shift it
with a friction down tube shifter with no problems.


Sure, I can do that as well. It's just not very comfortable without
indexing, especially like yesterday where I rode along a busy road with
lots of noise, in the dark. So you could be going miles with a slightly
out of trim derailer and not hear it. Not healthy for the chain. That
chance is lower the wider the chain is.

Interesting comment. I ride in what is usually rated as the 2nd most
chaotic traffic in the world with a 10 speed cassette and down tube
friction shifters with no problems whatsoever.


Maybe you have musical ears or fingers. I don't. Also, at night one
can't look through between the legs to see if it's nicely lined up. In
the olden days when everyone had friction shifters I also saw lots of
riders tooling along with the chain clearly askew, sometimes making an
awful noise. They just didn't care.

Strange, but I never seem to have all the problems that you do. I've
been using friction shifters off and on for at least 20 years and
never had problems with them.

cheers,

John B.


If you can't see it, can't hear it and can't feel it, is it a problem?