"We Object to Dirty Air!"

Why don't you just **** off & live on Sark?



--
Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a
legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster
University

On Jun 1, 8:33*am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On May 31, 8:24 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
On 31/05/2012 07:12, Doug wrote:
On May 30, 8:45 am, "Norman wrote:
Doug wrote:
"8.30am, Wednesday 30th May, Royal Courts of Justice, The Strand
(map)

Client Earth took Defra to court over breaching EU air quality
laws in December 2011. Defra was forced to admit that our air is
illegally polluted but they weren’t forced to change their plans
to improve our air quality so that we can breathe safely. If
Defra are ordered by the Court to clean up their act it would
make a huge difference to our quality of air and quality of
life. The Court of Appeal will review the case tomorrow and we
will be outside the Royal Courts of Justice to let the judge
know that we object to dirty air!

Join us at 8:30am, bring your colourful feather duster,
marigolds, headscarf and pinny and help us clean the Court. We
are especially hoping that people affected by asthma might come
along and join us – if you would like any more info on this
action then get in touch with us at or
read more about the case he

http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news...t-appeal-pollu...

"...The case concerns Defra's proposals to bring nitrogen dioxide
(NO2) within legal limits by 1 January 2015, which includes plans
to encourage more local councils to introduce low-emissions zones
for road transport.

However, the plans showed that 17 of the air quality zones,
including London, would still fail to achieve compliance by 2015,
meaning the UK could potentially face multimillion-pound fines
from Brussels for failing to hit the target..."

What about the pollution from particulate pollen that trees and
grasses put out in vast clouds every spring and summer without a
by-your-leave, and which causes such untold misery that there are
shelves full of medications in Boots to deal with the
consequences? It's a far worse problem than NO2, so why aren't
your mates dealing with that?
Where did you get the idea that pollen is worse? Source? BTW, why
do you seem to be in favour of harmful air pollution from cars,
instead of condemning it?

?? How many people suffer from asthma and hayfever from pollen, far
more than from NO2. Where do you get the idea of anything different?

Source? Quote?

What's wrong with Londoners stewing in their own pollution?

If its motorists suffering it is rough justice but they inflict their
noxious gases on other people too.

Turn off your gas!
as I have told you before, domestic gas usage puts out more NOx than
cars do (in London) Since you are too lazy to look it up, here is
the
link:http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ers/taxi-works...

You are too lazy even to read your own source which clearly says...

"Two main air pollutants which impact health
• NOx (nitrogen oxides: NO, NO2)
• Causes respiratory problems and aggravates asthma.
• Main source is road transport , though industrial and
domestic heating also important.
• Particulate matter (PM)
• aggravates respiratory and cardiovascular conditions.
• Main source is road transport though construction sites
also important."

I suppose you will now tell me that I have invented and created that
report
and somehow put it on the tfl website.

What I can tell you is that you obviously have some kind of a reading
problem.


look at the chart that shows the output from each source, gas puts out far
more than cars.

So your source contradicts itself? Not very good is it. Maybe you need
a better source. Also you are still neglecting the fact that gas or
not you pollute more than me because you use a car and I do not.

-- .
A driving licence is sometimes a licence to kill.

-- .
A driving licence is sometimes a licence to kill.

On Jun 1, 8:55*am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On May 31, 9:24 am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On May 30, 8:45 am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
What about the pollution from particulate pollen that trees and
grasses put out in vast clouds every spring and summer without a
by-your-leave, and which causes such untold misery that there are
shelves full of medications in Boots to deal with the consequences?
It's a far worse problem than NO2, so why aren't your mates dealing
with that?

Where did you get the idea that pollen is worse? Source? BTW, why do
you seem to be in favour of harmful air pollution from cars, instead
of condemning it?

Just look in Boots. Endless rows of medications to deal with
hayfever, rhinitis, synovitis, conjunctivitis and allergies. Endless
preparations of anti-histamines and steroids. All to combat the
effects of tree and grass pollen pollution. Everyone knows loads of
people with such allergies. You yourself have one, even though you
try to blame it without any foundation whatever on car pollution.

Now show me the equivalent medications in Boots to deal with ailments
caused by car pollution.

Rubbish! Instead they have no treatment for poisoning by air
pollution. Why am I not surprised that you cannot come up with a
source to confirm your wild claim.

See, it's not a problem. Pollen undoubtedly is.

You are seriously trying to claim that air pollution is not a problem
when it is known to kill thousands of people?

Well, let's look at the Wikipedia entry just for rhinitis, shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergic_rhinitis

"Allergic rhinitis triggered by the pollens of specific seasonal plants
is commonly known as 'hay fever'".

"Allergic rhinitis is an allergic inflammation of the nasal airways. It
occurs when an allergen, such as pollen, dust or animal dander
(particles of shed skin and hair) is inhaled by an individual with a
sensitized immune system

"It is roughly estimated that one in three people have an active allergy
at any given time and at least three in four people develop an allergic
reaction at least once in their lives. In Western countries between
10-25% of people annually are affected by allergic rhinitis."

Do note the last bit of the above especially, Doug:

"In Western countries between 10-25% of people annually are affected by
allergic rhinitis".

Up to a quarter of people suffer from ******* pollen every year. *That's
why there are shelves full of remedies for it in Boots. *And that's why
I say:

A tree is a licence to kill.

Where does it say how many people are killed by pollen?

You are also neglecting the fact that air pollution can also cause an
allergic reaction.

-- .
A driving licence is sometimes a licence to kill.

Doug wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:55 am, "Norman Wells" wrote:

What about the pollution from particulate pollen that trees and
grasses put out in vast clouds every spring and summer without a
by-your-leave, and which causes such untold misery that there are
shelves full of medications in Boots to deal with the
consequences? It's a far worse problem than NO2, so why aren't
your mates dealing with that?

Where did you get the idea that pollen is worse? Source? BTW, why
do you seem to be in favour of harmful air pollution from cars,
instead of condemning it?

Just look in Boots. Endless rows of medications to deal with
hayfever, rhinitis, synovitis, conjunctivitis and allergies.
Endless preparations of anti-histamines and steroids. All to
combat the effects of tree and grass pollen pollution. Everyone
knows loads of people with such allergies. You yourself have one,
even though you try to blame it without any foundation whatever on
car pollution.

Now show me the equivalent medications in Boots to deal with
ailments caused by car pollution.

Rubbish! Instead they have no treatment for poisoning by air
pollution. Why am I not surprised that you cannot come up with a
source to confirm your wild claim.

See, it's not a problem. Pollen undoubtedly is.

You are seriously trying to claim that air pollution is not a
problem when it is known to kill thousands of people?

Well, let's look at the Wikipedia entry just for rhinitis, shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergic_rhinitis

"Allergic rhinitis triggered by the pollens of specific seasonal
plants is commonly known as 'hay fever'".

"Allergic rhinitis is an allergic inflammation of the nasal airways.
It occurs when an allergen, such as pollen, dust or animal dander
(particles of shed skin and hair) is inhaled by an individual with a
sensitized immune system

"It is roughly estimated that one in three people have an active
allergy at any given time and at least three in four people develop
an allergic reaction at least once in their lives. In Western
countries between 10-25% of people annually are affected by allergic
rhinitis."

Do note the last bit of the above especially, Doug:

"In Western countries between 10-25% of people annually are affected
by allergic rhinitis".

Up to a quarter of people suffer from ******* pollen every year.
That's why there are shelves full of remedies for it in Boots. And
that's why I say:

A tree is a licence to kill.

Where does it say how many people are killed by pollen?

See for example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/728562.stm

"The hayfever season may trigger an increase in the numbers who die from
heart attacks and respiratory disease, say experts.

Although increases in other forms of air pollution have long been
associated with this, pollen has not been closely examined.

The study, in the Netherlands, looked at days in which pollen pollution
was higher than normal - and looked at how many people died from heart
attacks and other causes on those days.

They found that there were 5% to 10% more deaths on "high pollution"
days.

The increased risk mainly affected people suffering from pneumonia or
chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, a combination of bronchitis and
emphysema.

But there was still a smaller increased risk of dying from a heart
attack.

The higher the pollen levels, the higher the risk of mortality from
either cause.

The team reported: "Our findings, if substantiated, suggest that high
airborne pollen concentrations, which nowadays are mainly seen as
triggers of allergic symptoms, may have far more serious effects than
previously thought."

You are also neglecting the fact that air pollution can also cause an
allergic reaction.

No, I'm not. I'm dealing with pollen and how evil it is. If you and
your mates are truly concerned about the ill effects of airborne
pollution, you really should be going round cutting down trees.

A tree is a licence to kill.

"Doug" wrote in message
...
On Jun 1, 8:33 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On May 31, 8:24 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
On 31/05/2012 07:12, Doug wrote:
On May 30, 8:45 am, "Norman wrote:
Doug wrote:
"8.30am, Wednesday 30th May, Royal Courts of Justice, The Strand
(map)

Client Earth took Defra to court over breaching EU air quality
laws in December 2011. Defra was forced to admit that our air is
illegally polluted but they weren’t forced to change their plans
to improve our air quality so that we can breathe safely. If
Defra are ordered by the Court to clean up their act it would
make a huge difference to our quality of air and quality of
life. The Court of Appeal will review the case tomorrow and we
will be outside the Royal Courts of Justice to let the judge
know that we object to dirty air!

Join us at 8:30am, bring your colourful feather duster,
marigolds, headscarf and pinny and help us clean the Court. We
are especially hoping that people affected by asthma might come
along and join us – if you would like any more info on this
action then get in touch with us at or
read more about the case he

http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news...t-appeal-pollu...

"...The case concerns Defra's proposals to bring nitrogen dioxide
(NO2) within legal limits by 1 January 2015, which includes plans
to encourage more local councils to introduce low-emissions zones
for road transport.

However, the plans showed that 17 of the air quality zones,
including London, would still fail to achieve compliance by 2015,
meaning the UK could potentially face multimillion-pound fines
from Brussels for failing to hit the target..."

What about the pollution from particulate pollen that trees and
grasses put out in vast clouds every spring and summer without a
by-your-leave, and which causes such untold misery that there are
shelves full of medications in Boots to deal with the
consequences? It's a far worse problem than NO2, so why aren't
your mates dealing with that?
Where did you get the idea that pollen is worse? Source? BTW, why
do you seem to be in favour of harmful air pollution from cars,
instead of condemning it?

?? How many people suffer from asthma and hayfever from pollen, far
more than from NO2. Where do you get the idea of anything different?

Source? Quote?

What's wrong with Londoners stewing in their own pollution?

If its motorists suffering it is rough justice but they inflict their
noxious gases on other people too.

Turn off your gas!
as I have told you before, domestic gas usage puts out more NOx than
cars do (in London) Since you are too lazy to look it up, here is
the
link:http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ers/taxi-works...

You are too lazy even to read your own source which clearly says...

"Two main air pollutants which impact health
• NOx (nitrogen oxides: NO, NO2)
• Causes respiratory problems and aggravates asthma.
• Main source is road transport , though industrial and
domestic heating also important.
• Particulate matter (PM)
• aggravates respiratory and cardiovascular conditions.
• Main source is road transport though construction sites
also important."

I suppose you will now tell me that I have invented and created that
report
and somehow put it on the tfl website.

What I can tell you is that you obviously have some kind of a reading
problem.


look at the chart that shows the output from each source, gas puts out far
more than cars.

So your source contradicts itself? Not very good is it. Maybe you need
a better source. Also you are still neglecting the fact that gas or
not you pollute more than me because you use a car and I do not.

-- .
You need to re-read that which I wrote.
The source is OK, it is your misunderstanding. I stated CARS produce less
NOx than domestic gas usage, you seem to interpret cars as being all road
vehicles (which in total do make more NOx than domestic gas usage)

On 02/06/2012 09:01, Norman Wells wrote:


No, I'm not. I'm dealing with pollen and how evil it is. If you and your
mates are truly concerned about the ill effects of airborne pollution,
you really should be going round cutting down trees.

A tree is a licence to kill.

A tree weapon is a licence to kill

--
Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a
legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster
University

On Jun 2, 11:33*am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
"Doug" wrote in message

...
On Jun 1, 8:33 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:







Doug wrote:
On May 31, 8:24 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
On 31/05/2012 07:12, Doug wrote:
On May 30, 8:45 am, "Norman wrote:
Doug wrote:
"8.30am, Wednesday 30th May, Royal Courts of Justice, The Strand
(map)

Client Earth took Defra to court over breaching EU air quality
laws in December 2011. Defra was forced to admit that our air is
illegally polluted but they weren’t forced to change their plans
to improve our air quality so that we can breathe safely. If
Defra are ordered by the Court to clean up their act it would
make a huge difference to our quality of air and quality of
life. The Court of Appeal will review the case tomorrow and we
will be outside the Royal Courts of Justice to let the judge
know that we object to dirty air!

Join us at 8:30am, bring your colourful feather duster,
marigolds, headscarf and pinny and help us clean the Court. We
are especially hoping that people affected by asthma might come
along and join us – if you would like any more info on this
action then get in touch with us at or
read more about the case he

http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news...t-appeal-pollu...

"...The case concerns Defra's proposals to bring nitrogen dioxide
(NO2) within legal limits by 1 January 2015, which includes plans
to encourage more local councils to introduce low-emissions zones
for road transport.

However, the plans showed that 17 of the air quality zones,
including London, would still fail to achieve compliance by 2015,
meaning the UK could potentially face multimillion-pound fines
from Brussels for failing to hit the target..."

What about the pollution from particulate pollen that trees and
grasses put out in vast clouds every spring and summer without a
by-your-leave, and which causes such untold misery that there are
shelves full of medications in Boots to deal with the
consequences? It's a far worse problem than NO2, so why aren't
your mates dealing with that?
Where did you get the idea that pollen is worse? Source? BTW, why
do you seem to be in favour of harmful air pollution from cars,
instead of condemning it?

?? How many people suffer from asthma and hayfever from pollen, far
more than from NO2. Where do you get the idea of anything different?

Source? Quote?

What's wrong with Londoners stewing in their own pollution?

If its motorists suffering it is rough justice but they inflict their
noxious gases on other people too.

Turn off your gas!
as I have told you before, domestic gas usage puts out more NOx than
cars do (in London) Since you are too lazy to look it up, here is
the
link:http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ers/taxi-works...

You are too lazy even to read your own source which clearly says...

"Two main air pollutants which impact health
• NOx (nitrogen oxides: NO, NO2)
• Causes respiratory problems and aggravates asthma.
• Main source is road transport , though industrial and
domestic heating also important.
• Particulate matter (PM)
• aggravates respiratory and cardiovascular conditions.
• Main source is road transport though construction sites
also important."

I suppose you will now tell me that I have invented and created that
report
and somehow put it on the tfl website.

What I can tell you is that you obviously have some kind of a reading
problem.

look at the chart that shows the output from each source, gas puts out far
more than cars.

So your source contradicts itself? Not very good is it. Maybe you need
a better source. Also you are still neglecting the fact that gas or
not you pollute more than me because you use a car and I do not.

-- .
You need to re-read that which I wrote.
The source is OK, it is your misunderstanding. *I stated CARS produce less
NOx than domestic gas usage, you seem to interpret cars as being all road
vehicles (which in total do make more NOx than domestic gas usage)

OK then. You have failed for some reason to explain what you use for
heating so I must assume it is electricity. Of course, if you burn
anything at all for heating your pollution will be even worse. Some
deprecate the use of electricity for heating on the grounds that it is
high quality energy which is being wasted and that is why I don't use
it for heating.

Thus the pollution you use with a combination of household electricity
and the use of a car is still more than mine. End of story.

-- .
A driving licence is sometimes a licence to kill.

On Jun 2, 9:01*am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:55 am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
What about the pollution from particulate pollen that trees and
grasses put out in vast clouds every spring and summer without a
by-your-leave, and which causes such untold misery that there are
shelves full of medications in Boots to deal with the
consequences? It's a far worse problem than NO2, so why aren't
your mates dealing with that?

Where did you get the idea that pollen is worse? Source? BTW, why
do you seem to be in favour of harmful air pollution from cars,
instead of condemning it?

Just look in Boots. Endless rows of medications to deal with
hayfever, rhinitis, synovitis, conjunctivitis and allergies.
Endless preparations of anti-histamines and steroids. All to
combat the effects of tree and grass pollen pollution. Everyone
knows loads of people with such allergies. You yourself have one,
even though you try to blame it without any foundation whatever on
car pollution.

Now show me the equivalent medications in Boots to deal with
ailments caused by car pollution.

Rubbish! Instead they have no treatment for poisoning by air
pollution. Why am I not surprised that you cannot come up with a
source to confirm your wild claim.

See, it's not a problem. Pollen undoubtedly is.

You are seriously trying to claim that air pollution is not a
problem when it is known to kill thousands of people?

Well, let's look at the Wikipedia entry just for rhinitis, shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergic_rhinitis

"Allergic rhinitis triggered by the pollens of specific seasonal
plants is commonly known as 'hay fever'".

"Allergic rhinitis is an allergic inflammation of the nasal airways.
It occurs when an allergen, such as pollen, dust or animal dander
(particles of shed skin and hair) is inhaled by an individual with a
sensitized immune system

"It is roughly estimated that one in three people have an active
allergy at any given time and at least three in four people develop
an allergic reaction at least once in their lives. In Western
countries between 10-25% of people annually are affected by allergic
rhinitis."

Do note the last bit of the above especially, Doug:

"In Western countries between 10-25% of people annually are affected
by allergic rhinitis".

Up to a quarter of people suffer from ******* pollen every year.
That's why there are shelves full of remedies for it in Boots. And
that's why I say:

A tree is a licence to kill.

Where does it say how many people are killed by pollen?

See for example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/728562.stm

"The hayfever season may trigger an increase in the numbers who die from
heart attacks and respiratory disease, say experts.

Although increases in other forms of air pollution have long been
associated with this, pollen has not been closely examined.

The study, in the Netherlands, looked at days in which pollen pollution
was higher than normal - and looked at how many people died from heart
attacks and other causes on those days.

They found that there were 5% to 10% more deaths on "high pollution"
days.

The increased risk mainly affected people suffering from pneumonia or
chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, a combination of bronchitis and
emphysema.

But there was still a smaller increased risk of dying from a heart
attack.

The higher the pollen levels, the higher the risk of mortality from
either cause.

The team reported: "Our findings, if substantiated, suggest that high
airborne pollen concentrations, which nowadays are mainly seen as
triggers of allergic symptoms, may have far more serious effects than
previously thought."

You are also neglecting the fact that air pollution can also cause an
allergic reaction.

No, I'm not. *I'm dealing with pollen and how evil it is. *If you and
your mates are truly concerned about the ill effects of airborne
pollution, you really should be going round cutting down trees.

A tree is a licence to kill.

You are confusing natural causes of death with man-made causes which
should not be allowed anyway. You know that your car contributes to
the deaths of others but you are still allowed to use it. There is
virtually nothing that can be done by you or anyone else about pollen,
which has existed long before humans.

Behind all of this though is your desperate attempts to somehow
vindicate your car pollution by trying to compare it with natural
causes of death.

-- .
A driving licence is sometimes a licence to kill.

Doug wrote:
On Jun 2, 9:01 am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:55 am, "Norman Wells" wrote:

The higher the pollen levels, the higher the risk of mortality from
either cause.

The team reported: "Our findings, if substantiated, suggest that high
airborne pollen concentrations, which nowadays are mainly seen as
triggers of allergic symptoms, may have far more serious effects than
previously thought."

You are also neglecting the fact that air pollution can also cause
an allergic reaction.

No, I'm not. I'm dealing with pollen and how evil it is. If you and
your mates are truly concerned about the ill effects of airborne
pollution, you really should be going round cutting down trees.

A tree is a licence to kill.

You are confusing natural causes of death with man-made causes which
should not be allowed anyway. You know that your car contributes to
the deaths of others but you are still allowed to use it. There is
virtually nothing that can be done by you or anyone else about pollen,
which has existed long before humans.

I don't think being 'natural' makes it any better for anyone affected.
Pollen causes deaths and very unpleasant ones, and I don't think anyone
should be just accepting it and saying 'Oh, it's natural, so that's OK
then'. It's a far bigger problem than man-made pollution and it needs
to be dealt with. I've suggested one way, which is for your mates to go
round cutting down trees. If you don't want to to do that, you should
at least be trying to cover them up in pollen-proof bags. Why should
the rest of us have to suffer because of your liking for all things
'natural', which are even more toxic than those that are man-made?

Behind all of this though is your desperate attempts to somehow
vindicate your car pollution by trying to compare it with natural
causes of death.

A tree is a licence to kill.

On Mon, 4 Jun 2012 08:55:57 +0100, "Norman Wells"
wrote:

Doug wrote:
On Jun 2, 9:01 am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:55 am, "Norman Wells" wrote:

The higher the pollen levels, the higher the risk of mortality from
either cause.

The team reported: "Our findings, if substantiated, suggest that high
airborne pollen concentrations, which nowadays are mainly seen as
triggers of allergic symptoms, may have far more serious effects than
previously thought."

You are also neglecting the fact that air pollution can also cause
an allergic reaction.

No, I'm not. I'm dealing with pollen and how evil it is. If you and
your mates are truly concerned about the ill effects of airborne
pollution, you really should be going round cutting down trees.

A tree is a licence to kill.

You are confusing natural causes of death with man-made causes which
should not be allowed anyway. You know that your car contributes to
the deaths of others but you are still allowed to use it. There is
virtually nothing that can be done by you or anyone else about pollen,
which has existed long before humans.

I don't think being 'natural' makes it any better for anyone affected.
Pollen causes deaths and very unpleasant ones, and I don't think anyone
should be just accepting it and saying 'Oh, it's natural, so that's OK
then'. It's a far bigger problem than man-made pollution and it needs
to be dealt with. I've suggested one way, which is for your mates to go
round cutting down trees. If you don't want to to do that, you should
at least be trying to cover them up in pollen-proof bags. Why should
the rest of us have to suffer because of your liking for all things
'natural', which are even more toxic than those that are man-made?

Behind all of this though is your desperate attempts to somehow
vindicate your car pollution by trying to compare it with natural
causes of death.

A tree is a licence to kill.

You should amend that to "A tree is sometimes a licence to kill." as
not all trees kill.